Tonally Accurate Loudspeakers

[square_wave]

I have always been fascinated with loudspeakers that stay true to tone and manage to have abundant dynamics and details. I have explored this world a little many years back. The best tone I have heard have come from single driver full range speakers. Alnico magnets, Tannoy co-axial, Paper cones, Hempcones all come to mind. In the past, whenever I came across these speakers, it always came with a set of cons as well. Limited frequency extension, dispersion issues etc..

Technology has come a long way since. I am wondering about the offerings now. Would love to hear thoughts from people who have explored this. I see many classical music loving folks taking to accuton drivers. Classical needs tonal accuracy.

 

[Kannan]

I have always been fascinated with loudspeakers that stay true to tone and manage to have abundant dynamics and details. I have explored this world a little many years back. The best tone I have heard have come from single driver full range speakers. Alnico magnets, Tannoy co-axial, Paper cones, Hempcones all come to mind. In the past, whenever I came across these speakers, it always came with a set of cons as well. Limited frequency extension, dispersion issues etc..

Technology has come a long way since. I am wondering about the offerings now. Would love to hear thoughts from people who have explored this. I see many classical music loving folks taking to accuton drivers. Classical needs tonal accuracy.

You must listen to the Rosso Fiorentina series in your next visit to Chennai.

 

[Hari Iyer]

When in Mumbai listen to the Russian vintage drivers on an OB and your conception of extended dynamics will get stumped.

 

[square_wave]

When in Mumbai listen to the Russian vintage drivers on an OB and your conception of extended dynamics will get stumped.

Where can this be experienced ? Can you provide more specifics of these creations ?

 

[Ravindra Desai]

I have always been fascinated with loudspeakers that stay true to tone and manage to have abundant dynamics and details. I have explored this world a little many years back. The best tone I have heard have come from single driver full range speakers. Alnico magnets, Tannoy co-axial, Paper cones, Hempcones all come to mind. In the past, whenever I came across these speakers, it always came with a set of cons as well. Limited frequency extension, dispersion issues etc..

Technology has come a long way since. I am wondering about the offerings now. Would love to hear thoughts from people who have explored this. I see many classical music loving folks taking to accuton drivers. Classical needs tonal accuracy.

Fullrange speakers will be tonally most accurate!
Ideal phase response, single cone (material) reproducing all the frequencies, lack of passive crossovers...all contribute to tonal evenness.

However, most full range speakers will not work, to satisfy most of us, with most common amplifiers available in the market.
I have detailed out the reasons for the same here

So for the given reasons, you either have to pair it with valve amplifiers or amplifiers with 'tweaked' feedback loop.
Then you will not have any thing to complain about dynamic range or restricted bandwidth.

For my latest build using a fullrange with a Woofer to support it at the low end (yo keep the form factor compact), kindly take a look here.

You are welcome to visit me for a demo!

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[nosortf]

Tonal accuracy is like Butter chicken, no two restaurants preparation tastes the same. Claims are made from several technical viewpoints and designers and users.
Bottom line is very simple, get a direct to tape recording of a grand piano. Go to a softly furnished five star hotel lobby, hear the piano intently at 10 feet in direct field and go home and hear the said recording.
I think the Butter chicken in the hotel will be unimaginably different from the one in your house.

 

[square_wave]

Tonal accuracy is like Butter chicken, no two restaurants preparation tastes the same. Claims are made from several technical viewpoints and designers and users.
Bottom line is very simple, get a direct to tape recording of a grand piano. Go to a softly furnished five star hotel lobby, hear the piano intently at 10 feet in direct field and go home and hear the said recording.
I think the Butter chicken in the hotel will be unimaginably different from the one in your house.

I know it is difficult to mimic live instruments. Some music systems comes close though...and that is the whole point of this hobby.

I was trying to reach out to people who have been exploring speakers that push the boundaries with regard to tonal accuracy.

 

[mpw]

and that is the whole point of this hobby.

I was trying to reach out to people who have been exploring speakers that push the boundaries with regard to tonal accuracy.

There is no 1 correct tonal accuracy

The point of this hobby or journey may be different for others..

What I have seen and heard us that there is no one correct answer and even the Best struggle.

There is therefore no answer to your question IMO.

If you are happy with your music and managed to avoid uograditis then one can argue one has a tonally accurate system that satisfies the owner

Regards

 

[square_wave]

There is no 1 correct tonal accuracy

The point of this hobby or journey may be different for others..

What I have seen and heard us that there is no one correct answer and even the Best struggle.

Regards

Sure. That is exactly what I am looking for. Can you talk about speaker that you have expereinced and also talk about why you think that the speaker excels in this area ?

 

[flute]

There are drivers which can do wonders but selection and implementaion is more important.

 

[sound_cycle]

hear thoughts from people who have explored this. I see many classical music loving folks taking to accuton drivers. Classical needs tonal accuracy.

Planars. Give them a listen. You can hear the pluck of the cello, walk into the sound stage and pat the cellist on the shoulder. Tabla/ ghatam is rather uncanny, life like. Voices even very familiar ones say Knopfler or Rafi suddenly have so much detail and nuance. Etc. Yes I am smitten, but do give them a listen, if you want accuracy, resolution, speed etc.

ciao
gr

 

[mpw]

The Merlin TSM and Naim Supernait2 Excel in jazz and Indian classical. The CDP is the venerable Philips CD960.

A trumpet and clarinet and saxophone are clearly differentiated.

The speakers are able to communicate the essence of the music along with the music itself without showing too many warts.

That's what I want

That's what I get

Thats why I am happy

That's why I think my music at home is tonally accurate

For total of 8 years I have learnt to play 2 classical instruments and I know there is no comparison to live music.

In that way my ears are "trained"

But my observations stand... Within the framework of the limitations of my room.

 

[jls001]

The only way of testing whether a speaker (or any audio gear, for that matter) is tonally accurate is to play a particular instrument then play a recording of the same instrument through an audio reproduction chain and compare live to reproduced. "Same" instrument because two violins can sound different, two cellos can sound different, etc. I often attend the chamber concerts of the Symphony Orchestra of India and I have noticed multiple times that the tone of the violin played by the concert master (principal violinist in the orchestra) sounds noticeably different from the violin sounds of the other players. I often sit close enough to the stage to notice.

But the caveat here is we are no longer testing a single audio component but rather the entire recording and reproduction chains (separately of course). My personal take is if our reproduction chain sounds close enough to audio memory of a particular type of instrument, it's more than good enough.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Good suggestion Jousha. Most FMs would not have the previlage to play/ record a musical instrument. Another suggestion would be to give a speech yourself and record them probably on a cassette tape deck. You can play that and check how you yourself sound. Alternatively you can record traffic noise and check how they actually sound in your speakers as we can also relate to that on a daily basis. Also try recording normal family daily chit chat and conversation and play back on your speakers. This could give some indication how much altered your setup sound.

 

[hifitoaster]

Good suggestion Jousha. Most FMs would not have the previlage to play/ record a musical instrument. Another suggestion would be to give a speech yourself and record them probably on a cassette tape deck. You can play that and check how you yourself sound. Alternatively you can record traffic noise and check how they actually sound in your speakers as we can also relate to that on a daily basis. Also try recording normal family daily chit chat and conversation and play back on your speakers. This could give some indication how much altered your setup sound.

This is how , loudspeaker manufacturers voice their systems. But downside is the cost of reference grade equipment for recording. If flat is what someones is looking for, then play white noise and see the graph with the graph of the orginal white noise spectrum.

 

[arj]

My personal take is that "tonal accuracy" means it must sound real and it is possible that two systems can sound different but still both sound real. ( and of course keep the characteristic ie the guitar sound like a guitar and not a banjo)
hence a Planar, OB and box speaker can each sound real and at the same time sound different.

Anyway two different people can hear the same system at the same time and hear them different since the hearing curves of each individual is anyway different

From my little experience, tonal accuracy is not the sole domain of Single drivers ( although coherency largely although not exclusively is ). I have found well done Horns like Klipschorns and Avantgarde to to be exemplary in tone with the right equipment.
Harbeth 40 has a remarkable tone and so do the Merlins and the Tekton DIs that prem in this forum owns

I heard the Mangers last year which are a very different design and has a different presentation but tonally they too sounded very good.

 

[hifitoaster]

Anyway two different people can hear the same system at the same time and hear them different since the hearing curves of each individual is anyway different

.

Its true, but its how that person listen to the environment too. So if the speaker is accurate as a human voice, even though he is hearing it different, for him the speaker is already good as a real person.

 

[Hari Iyer]

If flat is what someones is looking for, then play white noise and see the graph with the graph of the orginal white noise spectrum.

Imo, tonal accuracy is a subjective parameter and to use white noise to measure and conclude tonal accuracy will be a wrong choice of measurement.

 

[Kannan]

Instruments occupy different band spectrums, so a speaker driver should voice the entire spectrum as accurately as possible.
Since music has wider bandwidth at the same instant with voices and instruments sitting in different spectrums, achieving separation is very critical in highlighting the tonal accuracy of each instrument and the voices.
This separation is not just the character of the speaker but the entire chain.
So just recording one instrument and then hearing it from the speaker is not the accurate approach to assess tonality.
It is not good enough if a speaker performs (is totally accurate) only at certain frequencies.
Similarly cone materials also have an impact on tonality, more so in upper mids and highs
Metal, paper, plastic, alloy, hybrid etc each have their own character and capability.
So a good driver should be able to make the symbols sound accurate in isolation and also when it has to produce a bass note at the same time.

 

[nosortf]

Square wave started the subject, so my question would be, have you heard the intent of composition and artist communication come through on some speakers? That answer would be most helpful in understanding what you are seeking.