Tonally Accurate Loudspeakers

[square_wave]

Square wave started the subject, so my question would be, have you heard the intent of composition and artist communication come through on some speakers? That answer would be most helpful in understanding what you are seeking.

To answer your question, Typically, I have heard this happen in two kind of systems.

1. Fully active systems where there is no crossover in the speaker. There is an active crossover after the preamp and each driver is driven by its own carefully chosen and matched amplifier. Many good examples out there.
2. Some speaker designs where the focus is on least coloration of the critical midrange area. These are usually minimalistic designs. Original quads, Some horn speakers, Full range crossover-less designs. Yet to listen to the tektons. I am sure they do tone well. Tubes are usually in the picture as well but not necessarily.

There is a magic to good quality tone combined with micro dynamics. The music comes alive. There is a body and life to the sound. As opposed to this, a part of the industry thrives on speakers design driven by product managers whose sole focus is a very technical sound. They may tick a lot of audiophile boxes but can sound aloof and impersonal.

 

[prem]

The Tekton DI SE is more lifelike than any other speaker I have owned before. I prefer to use the word lifelike since to me it encompasses tonality, dynamics, presence and speed

 

[newlash09]

Interesting topic. Always a conundrum deciding between full range speakers and speakers with multiple drivers like the tektons, each optimised for its exact frequency coverage.

 

[jls001]

This is how , loudspeaker manufacturers voice their systems. But downside is the cost of reference grade equipment for recording. If flat is what someones is looking for, then play white noise and see the graph with the graph of the orginal white noise spectrum.

My post was basically to highlight the impractically and difficulty of trying to get an exact or at least near match between actual tone and reproduced tone. I should have mentioned it explicitly. In other words, a very tough task indeed.

PS: why is it so difficult to realistically reproduce the sound of massed hand clapping applauses? Don't all applauses heard at the ends of live performances sound more like rain falling on a tin roof than actual hand claps?

PPS: here is someone claiming that the sound produced by the class B amp that he had built reproduces sound indistinguishable from live sound.

 

[hifitoaster]

My post was basically to highlight the impractically and difficulty of trying to get an exact or at least near match between actual tone and reproduced tone. I should have mentioned it explicitly. In other words, a very tough task indeed.

PS: why is it so difficult to realistically reproduce the sound of massed hand clapping applauses? Don't all applauses heard at the ends of live performances sound more like rain falling on a tin roof than actual hand claps?

PPS: here is someone claiming that the sound produced by the class B amp that he had built reproduces sound indistinguishable from live sound.

The most accurate speakers I ever heard was a geithain rl 901k, an applause really sounded like real on them. I worked at a university where they had more than the of these as the reference audio source for creating binaural recordings. Infact, all the recording equipments were RME, with Beyer dynamic binaural mics. Even with those devices it could not completely trick us that it's a real person there instead of a speaker. Geithains are one of the most accurate speakers you can buy now.

 

[sound_cycle]

PS: why is it so difficult to realistically reproduce the sound of massed hand clapping applauses? Don't all applauses heard at the ends of live performances sound more like rain falling on a tin roof than actual hand claps

distance from mic ? phasing because of "disharmonious"/ "out of sync" clapping ?

Let me explain. On the chesky demo disc (John Henry) there is a bit on midrange purity where JH asks you to snap fingers and then compare the "flesh and bone" tonality with that on Grandma's Hands (Livingston Taylor). That or the clapping in flamenco/ latino sounds facsimile enough/ okay/ acceptable (It might on qawwali but it is not a genre i listen to). But audience applause does not.

ciao
gr

 

[Nikhil]

To answer the OP's question ... Horns.
And to be specific about the implementation - Avantgarde Trios

When I heard the AG Trios I was just stunned at how real they sounded.
Nothing else comes close. There is something to the way a Horn speaker operates.

The next best to me after horns would be Open Baffle - total absence of any box colorations.
Sameer's Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Voxativ are stunning.


.

 

[tuff]

Not possible to create a perfect speaker because according to speaker designers themselves a speaker has to be a massless line source or infinitly small point source. I guess plasma tweeters do it, never heard any in person. Perhaps it's time for the science to move ahead and make a completely new way of making audio gear. Just brainwaves that makes us experience music the way it would in real life. No woofers tweeters.

 

[Rajiv]

My post was basically to highlight the impractically and difficulty of trying to get an exact or at least near match between actual tone and reproduced tone. I should have mentioned it explicitly. In other words, a very tough task indeed.

PS: why is it so difficult to realistically reproduce the sound of massed hand clapping applauses? Don't all applauses heard at the ends of live performances sound more like rain falling on a tin roof than actual hand claps?

PPS: here is someone claiming that the sound produced by the class B amp that he had built reproduces sound indistinguishable from live sound.

Hi,

Realistic reproduction of audience hand clapping is also dependent on the amplification used in the system. Paul McGowan's blog has some interesting information.

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/round-of-applause/

Regards
Rajiv

 

[moktan]

Hi,

Realistic reproduction of audience hand clapping is also dependent on the amplification used in the system. Paul McGowan's blog has some interesting information.

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/round-of-applause/

Regards
Rajiv

Scrolling down and reading the very erudite and passionate responses I found this little gem of a comment in the psaudio thread ...
“I have a Taoist Zen system; it can reproduce the sound of one hand clapping.”

 

[arj]

Scrolling down and reading the very erudite and passionate responses I found this little gem of a comment in the psaudio thread ...
“I have a Taoist Zen system; it can reproduce the sound of one hand clapping.”

wonder how the Sound of silence sounds like on that !

 

[Kannan]

Scrolling down and reading the very erudite and passionate responses I found this little gem of a comment in the psaudio thread ...
“I have a Taoist Zen system; it can reproduce the sound of one hand clapping.”

Actually a good system should sound dead silent in an one hand clap

 

[hifitoaster]

Actually a good system should sound dead silent in an one hand clap

I disagree, you should hear the air movement of that hand waving in that case So, a good speaker may resolve upto one hand clapping

 

[nosortf]

There are different varieties of butter chicken. Choose your favourite restaurant and eat from there.
However for getting a tonally accurate sound, you will need a controlled acoustic environment. If you lack such a space, butter chicken of your choice is always there.

 

[square_wave]

There are different varieties of butter chicken. Choose your favourite restaurant and eat from there.
However for getting a tonally accurate sound, you will need a controlled acoustic environment. If you lack such a space, butter chicken of your choice is always there.

I am not sure I follow the logic here. For a technically correct sound, you need a controlled acoustic environment. I get this. This is possible only in professionally created listening rooms or studios.

Audiophiles generally listen in rooms that are at varying levels of controlled acoustics. Are you saying that in such situations, we should not pursue speakers that are generally more tonally accurate ? In a partially controlled acoustic environment, won’t a Alnico hemp cone or field coil based speaker have a different tone than a conventional multi driver speaker ? In a controlled acoustic environment, these differences become even more evident.

 

[nosortf]

Accuracy is something audiophiles are not really persuing. Audiophiles like an interpretation to their liking.
A speaker chosen intelligently is one that matches a room and a given listener bias, horns vs boxes vs panels vs OBs is testament to this.
No particular technology or material guarantees accuracy on its own. A culmination of a design is more likely to succeed rather than any one aspect in a loudspeaker.
Finally system matching is most important.

 

[square_wave]

Accuracy is something audiophiles are not really persuing. Audiophiles like an interpretation to their liking.
A speaker chosen intelligently is one that matches a room and a given listener bias, horns vs boxes vs panels vs OBs is testament to this.
No particular technology or material guarantees accuracy on its own. A culmination of a design is more likely to succeed rather than any one aspect in a loudspeaker.
Finally system matching is most important.

I agree. What you made is a very truthful statement.

Culmination of design :
Are you referring to the use of design thinking in the overall approach to building a system with a particular goal in mind ? If that is the case, I agree. Always followed this as guiding principle.

I am more interested in loudspeaker designs that give a lot of importance to tonal purity as a very important criteria in their design process. I understand that speaker designing is a give and take process. If you push some things you tend to lose somethings. Designers tend to strike a balance in their designs while pushing some standards that are important to them.

 

[nosortf]

I agree. What you made is a very truthful statement.

Culmination of design :
Are you referring to the use of design thinking in the overall approach to building a system with a particular goal in mind ? If that is the case, I agree. Always followed this as guiding principle.

I am more interested in loudspeaker designs that give a lot of importance to tonal purity as a very important criteria in their design process. I understand that speaker designing is a give and take process. If you push some things you tend to lose somethings. Designers tend to strike a balance in their designs while pushing some standards that are important to them.

I may be over reaching here, so my apologies, like I said, tonal purity is like butter chicken. Everyone has their own idea about this.
Your reference to accuracy may be another matter. Accuracy can be defined by measurement parameters objectively. Not sure if a loudspeaker that fulfills said parameters will meet tonal purity desire adequately for us.

 

[square_wave]

Not sure if a loudspeaker that fulfills said parameters will meet tonal purity desire adequately for us.

No, they will not. I have observed this many times.

 

[prem]

square_wave, any speaker that has appealed to you as a tonally accurate one?