True Audiophile
- Thread starter arunlouie
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
sweep-tones, not sweeping tones?
I think I must have red too many Indian newspapers!
:lol:
(If only I could pick up Tamil like that...)
Oh, and (more seriously) another sign of hearing loss is that people ask you why you are shouting, when you don't think you are. This is also something to watch out for in children: the very noisy ones may not be naughty, but might have a hearing problem.
I think I must have red too many Indian newspapers!
:lol:(If only I could pick up Tamil like that...)
Oh, and (more seriously) another sign of hearing loss is that people ask you why you are shouting, when you don't think you are. This is also something to watch out for in children: the very noisy ones may not be naughty, but might have a hearing problem.
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Whenever people speak and demand others speak impeccable English, we use a saying which roughly translates to "The English have left but have left you behind". This supposed to come across as a mild insult but I realise that I cannot use it with you because, well, it's true! :lol:
PS - "Red" too many Indian newspapers?
PS - "Red" too many Indian newspapers?
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Tee hee... Brain... Fingers... Keyboard... reading...
Too many possible points of failure, and all fail regularly
And mild insults? That's what friends are for! :lol:
Too many possible points of failure, and all fail regularly
And mild insults? That's what friends are for! :lol:
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howyoudoin
New Member
Can someone explain to me the point of posting youtube videos in this thread, of vinyl recordings being played? How does it even start to make sense trying to portray the quality of an analogue output by transmitting it in digital format?
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
:lol:
Of course it doesn't make sense, other than being able to ogle the equipment.
Although... I discovered some of my childhood favourites on Youtube, and sometimes they come with a sense of what listening to 78s was like! It isn't something that would make anyone want to transfer their listening to 78s, though. I did love the sound of my parents' Radiogram: it was sort of boomy. And scratchy. Real, live, analogue sound
I suppose I had better withdraw the "anyone." I have no doubt that there are collectors of mid-20th century decks and shellac. Possibly some of them even have shellac in pristine condition too. If I went to such a house, I wouldn't even dare touch! Breaking mum's favourite record was one of those life-scarring moments!
I'm really very happy, though, that people take the trouble to put these things on Youtube --- but not for the audiophile quality!
Of course it doesn't make sense, other than being able to ogle the equipment.
Although... I discovered some of my childhood favourites on Youtube, and sometimes they come with a sense of what listening to 78s was like! It isn't something that would make anyone want to transfer their listening to 78s, though. I did love the sound of my parents' Radiogram: it was sort of boomy. And scratchy. Real, live, analogue sound
I suppose I had better withdraw the "anyone." I have no doubt that there are collectors of mid-20th century decks and shellac. Possibly some of them even have shellac in pristine condition too. If I went to such a house, I wouldn't even dare touch! Breaking mum's favourite record was one of those life-scarring moments!
I'm really very happy, though, that people take the trouble to put these things on Youtube --- but not for the audiophile quality!
That 'anyone' would be me. I have few 78s
. Have kept them because I have heard 78s playing through tube radio and it was magic. No scratching or hissing. Besides some Indian classicals are not available on LPs. or CDs and some artists are obscure. for ex. Bai Laxmi Bai of Baroda, Bai Rasoolan Bai etc. Classical Music is great from these people. Rasoolan Bai - Thumri Piloo Part 2 of 2 - YouTube
Also I dont know why I have kept Duke of York camp songs 78. Is that of any value ?
regards
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Oh great
. What do you play them on?I think my mum threw out the remaining discs, a couple of decades or so after the last thing they could have been played on died. The ones I would have liked would have suffered bad handling by a young me, anyway. Nothing like your very nice example.
The value of these things? High when you are buying, but low when selling, I suspect
A wonderful article on PRAT and Dynamics. Things that cannot be measured but only heard:
Pace, Rhythm, & Dynamics | Stereophile.com
Pace, Rhythm, & Dynamics | Stereophile.com
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Wonderful? It is a wonder how people claim to be engineers, and yet they use words like pace and rhythm in ways that are quite divorced from their true meaning.
Rhythmic stability! Bah! The only place you're even likely to find a lack of it is the turntable or the tape drive*, due to physical faults. Some people even have sufficiently sensitive sense of pitch to hear the effect of an off-centre hole.
Of course, analogue devices/media do not necessarily suffer these faults, and they may well sound wonderful (I'm still amazed by Hiten's 78rpm example above, even via youtube) but writing like this does them no favours at all.
*well, maybe in some "musicians" too!
Rhythmic stability! Bah! The only place you're even likely to find a lack of it is the turntable or the tape drive*, due to physical faults. Some people even have sufficiently sensitive sense of pitch to hear the effect of an off-centre hole.
Of course, analogue devices/media do not necessarily suffer these faults, and they may well sound wonderful (I'm still amazed by Hiten's 78rpm example above, even via youtube) but writing like this does them no favours at all.
*well, maybe in some "musicians" too!
Thad, though most probably source of that youtube classical piece could have been a shellac, digitization may have been done by HMV and mp3 may have been uploaded by someone. I have digitized some 78s classical will see if I can find them and upload.
Regds.
Regds.
Has anyone wondered why Cassettes have (almost) never been termed superior to digital playback even though most of us have done extensive cassette playback ? Why is only Vinyl making this comeback and its superiority is being discussed so widely ? It is not analogue fanaticism imo.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Simple. Because cassettes were always thought of as the poor relative. We used them for portability, ease of use, protection of our irreplaceable vinyl, protection of our styli from already-scratched records, and mixes for our friends. They were never claimed to be superior to anything, except in terms of convenience and control over our music --- and, even then, "reel" audiophiles who could afford them, used reel-to-reel tape. I understand that cassette tape is measurably inferior. In practice, though, and using a 3-head machine to monitor, I found them to be more than satisfactory. If someone else had been operating the monitor switch, I do not guarantee I could have told tape from source --- and my ears were twenty years younger then. However, a tape copy of a tape copy would be a different matter indeed.
Prejudice... expectations... misconceptions... and one thing that cannot be argued with, the personal preference for a certain flavour of sound.
Here is an interesting article. Yet another one discovered on a "surfing trip" prompted by this thread ...
Science and Subjectivism in Audio
Prejudice... expectations... misconceptions... and one thing that cannot be argued with, the personal preference for a certain flavour of sound.
Here is an interesting article. Yet another one discovered on a "surfing trip" prompted by this thread ...
Science and Subjectivism in Audio
I think most of us never got into vinyls in our initial days. Protecting our styli and vinyls is like a story to most people my age. Rather most of us did cassettes seriously, we had 3-head machines, metal cassettes and such at our disposal. And we all enjoyed our music on these high end cassette players. Exposure to vinyls was always limited to those cheap hmv and philips players which never sounded as good as a good cassette player and that is the reason they were replaced with high quality cassette decks. Preserving vinyl is a very very audiophile thing. I dont think anyone those days even knew that Vinyl wears after every playback. Record cleaning is something most of us did not know even few years back. My point is, both vinyls and cassettes measure inferior to digital media and they both got their share of air time with music lovers and audiophiles alike, however no one ever claimed cassettes to sound as good as digital. It was a very quiet exit for cassettes and a very universal welcome to CDs. It was only vinyl which not only outlived CDs but also considered as a reference for music playback by a significant number of audiophiles. If flavour was the reason then cassettes also had a flavour. But it just could not compete when it comes to sound quality, that is the reason nobody cared when it was eliminated. Vinyls could not be eliminated because it has the quality to compete and beat the best digital.
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Cassettes had many practical disadvantages, of which the worst, perhaps, was any catching or sticking resulted in a horrible job removing the tangled mess from the machine. The tape, thereafter, of course, was good for nothing but the bin. They had their MP3 equivalent too: the thinner tapes (C120? There may even have been longer ones) were used by those who wanted to cram as much as possible into one cassette, The tape was thin, so that it fitted, and was subject to stretching and instability. As tape went, it was too thin and too slow for high-quality recording. It did not have the dynamic range of vinyl (which actually served to make the recorded scratches a little less painful. Theoretically, it was never highly thought of, compared to vinyl.
However, I do (and have) agree with you that it wasn't that bad. Another practical advantage was that, even after CDs became established, it was cassettes that many played in their cars.
Of course, tapes were a commercial source of music, and were played on many machines ranging from those barely able to reproduce different pitches to serious equipment. However, vinyl ruled the roost. It was king; the music lover (even the stoned hippy, let alone the classical music lover) had a turntable and a record collection. I know there is no need to explain the significance of that to you, as you are probably as much in love with your LPs and the experience of playing them (maybe more so) as we were 40 years ago. The medium was (ok... is ) an integral part of the experience. LPs (not called "vinyl" then) were the originals, like comparing paintings to prints. The deck was the primary purchase, and only those with cash to spare splashed out on tape (while the rich, as I mentioned before, cosseted their "proper" tape recorders.
I'm not sure when hifi tape decks (rather than portable machines of dubious quality) came into my life. It may have been when I first lived alone (without, obviously, access to anybody else's sound system) that I had to go out and buy --- and I included a tape deck. It was augmented by a portable (well, lugable) but good 3-head machine and eventually replaced by a 3-head deck. Much, much later, a top-of-the-range walkman became a commuting companion, later to be replaced by minidisk, a digital format that was far better than tape, but another of Sony's mismanaged marketing exploits.
We did know that records wore out. We had lived with 78s, which could wear out quite quickly, and we did keep our LPs relatively clean, and our styli fluff-free.
Cassettes superior to CD? Sorry, but ... no.
However, I do (and have) agree with you that it wasn't that bad. Another practical advantage was that, even after CDs became established, it was cassettes that many played in their cars.
Of course, tapes were a commercial source of music, and were played on many machines ranging from those barely able to reproduce different pitches to serious equipment. However, vinyl ruled the roost. It was king; the music lover (even the stoned hippy, let alone the classical music lover) had a turntable and a record collection. I know there is no need to explain the significance of that to you, as you are probably as much in love with your LPs and the experience of playing them (maybe more so) as we were 40 years ago. The medium was (ok... is
) an integral part of the experience. LPs (not called "vinyl" then) were the originals, like comparing paintings to prints. The deck was the primary purchase, and only those with cash to spare splashed out on tape (while the rich, as I mentioned before, cosseted their "proper" tape recorders.I'm not sure when hifi tape decks (rather than portable machines of dubious quality) came into my life. It may have been when I first lived alone (without, obviously, access to anybody else's sound system) that I had to go out and buy --- and I included a tape deck. It was augmented by a portable (well, lugable) but good 3-head machine and eventually replaced by a 3-head deck. Much, much later, a top-of-the-range walkman became a commuting companion, later to be replaced by minidisk, a digital format that was far better than tape, but another of Sony's mismanaged marketing exploits.
We did know that records wore out. We had lived with 78s, which could wear out quite quickly, and we did keep our LPs relatively clean, and our styli fluff-free.
It may be considered a reference by a significant number of its fans. That is a point of view. Again, I say, you like the vinyl sound and the vinyl experience: that is entirely valid, but it does not indicate that vinyl is a truer or better reproduction of the performance.
Cassettes superior to CD? Sorry, but ... no.
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Tee hee... Brain... Fingers... Keyboard... reading...
Too many possible points of failure, and all fail regularly
And mild insults? That's what friends are for! :lol:
:lol: I like that one!
You just made a point that has been playing in the back of my mind for long now - I do recall enjoying tapes more than digital audio I listen to today. But that was me as a teenager when life held the prospect of romance and mystery.
--G0bble
Compact cassettes had one very strong limitation - HF extension was limited to about 16 kHz (by design). Metal tapes went a kHz higher.
Another limitation was the degradation of sound quality when cassettes are stored for longer period, especially in normal conditions (meaning non-dehumidified, no temperature control).
Even today I have some well recorded cassettes which are much better than their CD equivalent. You can blame it on HMV or digital or whatever
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