True Audiophile
- Thread starter arunlouie
- Start date
I have heard the digital master of several hindi films. They are very very good. The cd pales in comparison because cd mastering is different. Now if the cd master is sent for vinyl mastering, then its going to be a mess. However if they send the original digital master for vinyl cutting and mastering it could sound very nice
Normally the original digital master has a lot of space between instruments and also body. This is normally lacking in cd playback because the original mastering has been tampered with while making the cd master. Most vinyl playback will give body to the music making it sound more real. If however the cd is mastered very well, the differences are negligible. As i had mentioned earlier in another thread, it all boils down to the mastering.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
As Sridhar said, final S/N is a function of the weakest S/N in the chain, much like the a chain being as strong as the weakest link. Let's say a DAC made of the latest Sabre 32 bit DAC chip having a rated SNR of, say, 125 dB is used in the chain. The pre-amp, amp, cables, speakers may not be as quiet. The noisiest equipment in the chain determines the overall noise level.
For info: typical household ambient noise level is 55 dB. Typical rock/pop/electronica music dynamic range is 8 dB (compression, compression, compression!). Classical recordings can go as high as 30 dB. So in theory you need (55 + 30) dB SNR to be able to discern the quietest passages in the music.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
deleted post !
Oh really ?
surely you are joking buddy!
Sooner or later we need to have an actual showdown between a digital and analogue system, with an impartial jury (do such birds exist?) of 5-6 forum members. All other components will remain the same. Same albums to be played. SACD's, first pressings, the best recordings of different genres-Rock, Jazz, Hindustani and Western Classical.
For the CDP I propose an Esoteric XO5/KO5. For the TT..... bring it on folks. Anything within a similar budget.
Perhaps listening may change my preference. But nothing I have read till now, on any site, would make me spend a penny on vinyl
Ajay,
In audio there is this common phenomena, when you listen to something superior you just cannot go back to the inferior sound unless it is unaffordable.
Your approach is correct not to believe the superiority of Vinyls without listening but the day you listen to a good vinyl setup, while you may not change over to Vinyl because you have a huge collection of your favourite CDs but you will definitely understand the "incompleteness" of a CD. It is not something you can perceive in isolation. After that, living with that incompleteness is a matter priority and constraints.
Yes, really. The last time I head a completely digital system (a high end I must confess), believe it or not, the sound in two channel system enveloped me completely. Some of the sound came from behind my head, and I was sitting nearly 10 feet away from the system. If you closed your eyes, you would think the singer and the orchestra were singing live for you. I have heard that kind of soundstage a long time ago in a shop in London, and that was also playing a digital system with B&W speakers.
That is good enough for me.
Cheers
And what is the best analogue playback system you have heard ?
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Dr. Bass
Accepted. The nearest good vinyl based system I know of is Manav's. Sooner or later when I listen to it and find it better than a CDP based system, I will be DELIGHTED to admit the superiority of vinyl. It would be great to discover a better sound than anything I have heard before. Isn't that what the pursuit of high fidelity is all about?
I will still keep listening to CD music, because the collection I have now is my final one. It will last me till the grim reaper comes along and starts singing This Is The End. Beyond the fact that the music I like is only available on CD, I have no loyalty or special affinity for compact discs. Ego and hardened opinions are a heavy load to carry, therefore I have tried to shed them. It is easier to admit that you are wrong about something, than to stubbornly carry the load of ignorance for the rest of your life!
It is possible that the trend which began in the 80's towards digital music may be part of a cost cutting, profit maximising trend at the cost of sacrificing sound quality. But the exercise seems to be backfiring on the music industry because vinyl was a 'closed' technology where it was not easy to duplicate recordings. Whereas with digital music it is open season.
Accepted. The nearest good vinyl based system I know of is Manav's. Sooner or later when I listen to it
and find it better than a CDP based system, I will be DELIGHTED to admit the superiority of vinyl. It would be great to discover a better sound than anything I have heard before. Isn't that what the pursuit of high fidelity is all about? I will still keep listening to CD music, because the collection I have now is my final one. It will last me till the grim reaper comes along and starts singing This Is The End
. Beyond the fact that the music I like is only available on CD, I have no loyalty or special affinity for compact discs. Ego and hardened opinions are a heavy load to carry, therefore I have tried to shed them. It is easier to admit that you are wrong about something, than to stubbornly carry the load of ignorance for the rest of your life! It is possible that the trend which began in the 80's towards digital music may be part of a cost cutting, profit maximising trend at the cost of sacrificing sound quality. But the exercise seems to be backfiring on the music industry because vinyl was a 'closed' technology where it was not easy to duplicate recordings. Whereas with digital music it is open season.
Someone once said, a high quality Vinyl player is one of the best DAC. This was in the context of digital masters being used nowadays.
That is an interesting point you make.
Here is to the flesh and blood..a Verdier La Nouvelle Turntable:
Please use a headphone if possible.
jadis eurythmie II - YouTube
Even on this crappy youtube compressed sound you do get an idea of what is happening.
Please use a headphone if possible.
jadis eurythmie II - YouTube
Even on this crappy youtube compressed sound you do get an idea of what is happening.
Venkat - Come and visit TLR for a listen. This particular LP that SW is talking about will blow you away. It's a direct cut LP, which means the music was sent directly to the lathe with none (or minimal?) interference by humans. The dynamics have to be heard to be believed. I wish I could remember the name. It was a live jazz performance and I can't stand jazz but I loved it.
I was sitting 15ft away.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Some utterly stunning vinyl-based system, playing an amazing recording, with the lp in perfect condition, just blows somebody away.
Some utterly stunning cd/other-uncomrpessed-digital-source, playing on another utterly stunning system, just blows someone away.
And these are arguments that say that analogue is better than digital, or that digital is better than analogue? Or, even less logically, that digital can never achieve what analogue can?Some utterly stunning cd/other-uncomrpessed-digital-source, playing on another utterly stunning system, just blows someone away.
Sorry, guys, it doesn't wash --- either way.
Ethan Winer (a purist, an engineer, and something of anti-myth merchant): Dispelling Audio Myths
I guess he's talking about in the studio, before the sound even reaches a vinyl LP. High Fidelity? (err... fidelity means truth, ok?) Go digital. No doubt.
But you may not like it!
In which case, play vinyl ...and enjoy.
We can let the engineers tell us about the distortions that are part and parcel of analogue reproduction. We can let other engineers tell us that a CD's frequency response is wider than human hearing. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever be able to do a true AB test, because the original tapes may have been remastered/remixed to a very different result. This may have been done with a view to giving a very much more true-to-life (hi-fidelity) presentation of what actually happened in that studio or on that stage. It may also have suffered from simple bad workmanship, or been compressed to hell because loud-is-better.
From my personal perspective (and it is, really, personal perspectives), being one of the members who is old enough to have started out on Shellac*, let alone vinyl, I have certainly had the experience of CDs that reveal detail, as in actual sounds I never heard before from the vinyl, and cannot think of an instance where I would rather listen to the LP instead of the CD.
EXCEPT... for the pure experience of handling that beautiful round disk that came out of packaging with album art that was far more than just a logo. This is probably forty-year rose-tint on my glasses, but nothing can compare with the sheer romance of those LPs. Even though CDs (in that most horrible of packing, the stupidly-named, fragile, jewel case) may come with a booklet, it is just not the same as the joy of finding the lyrics on the inside of the album cover. How does a second-hand CD compare with it's LP equivalent? The previous owner's names... the joy of finding a much-wanted album that looked in poor condition, but played well (Err... it's not unusual for a brand-new CD to skip or even refuse to play).
I bet the CD booklet for which ever Beatles album it was (EDIT: Abbey Road, I guess) doesn't come with the misprint
And in the end,
The love you get,
Is equal to the love you get
The love you get,
Is equal to the love you get
(Which us household of cynical hippies, at the time, thought was so true!)
That's my eulogy to vinyl.
In practice, I'll stick to digital.
*Not sure, now, what 78s were made of. They were very fragile though, and cracked, snapped, or just plain wore out, as fe of us replaced the needles nearly as often as we should. I recall that I wore out Harry Belafonte's Island in the Sun.
Last edited:
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Thad
Fidelity means truth. And the truth is digital. Vinyl means romance, beauty, nostalgia. Rose tinted glasses. For the moment I will go with that!
Listening to a Chhanda Dhara CD of Aashish Khan and Zakir Hussain through an Esoteric CDP and Bryston amplification. True. Transparent. High Fidelity.
Fidelity means truth. And the truth is digital. Vinyl means romance, beauty, nostalgia. Rose tinted glasses. For the moment I will go with that!
Listening to a Chhanda Dhara CD of Aashish Khan and Zakir Hussain through an Esoteric CDP and Bryston amplification. True. Transparent. High Fidelity.
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Red Mahogany finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
