Thanks Reign for your guidance. I will enquire with Jochen about Classic 9" tonearm. In your earlier post, you have advised to go for entry level Scheu Premier than Cello. Is there significance difference and advantage? I will try to discuss with Jochen.
TT for beginner - Need advice
- Thread starter AMITNOIDA
- Start date
Amit,
The Premier mkII is reportedly a giant killer. Of course, I have not heard this one personally. But there are many excellent reports on it from actual users and professional reviewers alike. I know you liked my Cello, but please remember, you heard it with my speakers too
.
There are certain similarities, but the Premier is supposed to be significantly better. It is a true implementation of a heavy platter design with a choice of 50mm or 80mm thick acrylic platters.
I will try to give you the links for Cello. Some of them are in German. Do you know any German? (Google translation is very funny). But today I am quite busy with visit of the dignitaries to our Institute.
In the meantime you can read a bit on unipivot arms, and let us know about them. I was planning to read about them, but haven't found the time.
Regards.
The Premier mkII is reportedly a giant killer. Of course, I have not heard this one personally. But there are many excellent reports on it from actual users and professional reviewers alike. I know you liked my Cello, but please remember, you heard it with my speakers too
. There are certain similarities, but the Premier is supposed to be significantly better. It is a true implementation of a heavy platter design with a choice of 50mm or 80mm thick acrylic platters.
I will try to give you the links for Cello. Some of them are in German. Do you know any German? (Google translation is very funny). But today I am quite busy with visit of the dignitaries to our Institute.
In the meantime you can read a bit on unipivot arms, and let us know about them. I was planning to read about them, but haven't found the time.
Regards.
I would suggest using a Bellari vacuum tube phono preamp. They use a wall wart power adapter so whether you are on 60hz or 50hz current would not be an issue. It has a volume control for the line-out, and a headphone jack (that sounds fabulous) also with a volume control. There is no need to replace your presently in use receiver or amplifier, this goes between the turntable and your line-in.
I don't know if they are sold in your country but here is what they look like:
I don't know if they are sold in your country but here is what they look like:
Attachments
Amit, the Premier is in a whole different league. The motor is an outboard unit and you have the option for an 80mm platter, two tone-arms etc. It is also significantly bigger. So much so that I doubt it will fit easily on regular racks. I have seen the Cello but not heard it but I have heard the Premier on a few occasions and it never failed to blow me away. However, it is a significant step up from the Cello and the associated costs will also go up. I'm not sure you can fit the table, arm, cart and accessories within 1.5L.
The wiring upgrade on the RB251 arm costs just under 13K.
I am also considering an entry-level TT and in my conversations with Jochen and also as an observation, the Premier may not be the best TT for a beginner. This is only my opinion but the more compact Cello may be a much better starting point.
MAYHEM_METAL
Member
1. Turntable -
Suggested Thorens as its a SWISS company originally. SWISS are well know for precision machinery
2. Tone arm
No comments
Just want to mention there are so many Exotic Tone Arms that's the reason I have not mentioned any brands. I use the SME 3012 and believe me had such a hard time setting this up. I messed one Lp with wrong alignments and setting. Please guys which ever Tone Arm dont forget about the Protractor for the same. Very Very IMP lots of people overlook this. Your Lp life depends on proper setting.
5. Accessroies like Spirit Level, Brush, record cleaning solution, stylus cleaning liquid, anti static sleeves etc.
As I mention above Protractor for your ToneAram
Not so Important stylus force gauge
4. Phono-stage amp
Would like to add Pro-ject not used one but a friend had one. Awesome.
The Tube Phono stages are mind boggling
I have purchased lots of stuff from Analogue Seduction | Turntables, Tonearms & Cartridges to Buy Online
good product, good price, excellent packing but beware of Indan Custom please
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
^^Mayhem I have a technics and have heard a thorens td160 as well. Trust me the Scheu tables being talked about here are in a completely different league compared to even the top level thorens/technics tables currently available.
If I had permission from high command for the Scheu Premier, I'd drop my technics at the blink of an eye
If I had permission from high command for the Scheu Premier, I'd drop my technics at the blink of an eye
The Thorens were great once..the 124/125/126 and the truly awesome TD524. they have lost it today and hence the above are still considered Gems.
I believe the German TTs are the really good ones these days
MAYHEM_METAL
Member
^^Mayhem I have a technics and have heard a thorens td160 as well. Trust me the Scheu tables being talked about here are in a completely different league compared to even the top level thorens/technics tables currently available.
If I had permission from high command for the Scheu Premier, I'd drop my technics at the blink of an eye
You are right my friend I don't dispute that. Scheu Premier and so many other are better than the yesterdays. The Technology has changed since then. There are so many High end available. I been listening to Lps since the 80s and just giving my opinion on what I know. If it help anybody new. Thats all.
MAYHEM_METAL
Member
Maybe you are right.
I have heard the Older Models and I know for the fact they are good. Technology has evolved the TT take for example Wilson Benesch Full Circle turntable. What was good in the past may no longer be good now. I am just sharing my experience of what I know. And willing to help anyone who loves the Lp format and wants to get one. Amitji, my 2 cents
I don't think the first TT should as costly as 1L, there are plenty of low cost used/new TTs available which can give one enough punch. Some one looking to enter the analog world first should try this and decide whether its going to suit him at all. For you a few points
1.Bengali modern/film song LP, classical, Tagore songs in vinyl are hard to come by. One has to get them from Kolkata. I can assure you majority of Bengali film OSTs have disappeared its too difficult to locate even a OST like ARADHANA (bengali) that too at a premium.
2.If you spend heavily on some genre make sure you will preserve them properly and they will have a good resale value. I am saying this because I don't see any enthusiasm these genres in Kolkata at all
3. If a record is partially damaged (which you will find in 60% cases in your taste as they were played with ceramic cartridges) no TT in the world can extract the true sound out of it.
give a try and see how do you like it, please don't take a decision hurriedly.
I don't think the first TT should as costly as 1L, there are plenty of low cost used/new TTs available which can give one enough punch. Some one looking to enter the analog world first should try this and decide whether its going to suit him at all. For you a few points
1.Bengali modern/film song LP, classical, Tagore songs in vinyl are hard to come by. One has to get them from Kolkata. I can assure you majority of Bengali film OSTs have disappeared its too difficult to locate even a OST like ARADHANA (bengali) that too at a premium.
2.If you spend heavily on some genre make sure you will preserve them properly and they will have a good resale value. I am saying this because I don't see any enthusiasm these genres in Kolkata at all
3. If a record is partially damaged (which you will find in 60% cases in your taste as they were played with ceramic cartridges) no TT in the world can extract the true sound out of it.
give a try and see how do you like it, please don't take a decision hurriedly.
reubensm
Well-Known Member
my 2 cents...beginners should not start with fancy turntables...using a turntable and listening to enjoyable music on LPs is an art...unlike playing CDs.
you need to get introduced to how to use, calibrate and maintain a turntable, also use, maintain and store your LPs. better to start with a simple to use and trouble free Technics SL series...once you are familiar with the art, then move to the ProJECTs and REGAs...
i've had numerous friends who showed interest in the format, spent close to a lakh on a new high-end TT, new LPs only to end up being disappointed by distortion, tracking issues, ticks and pops on LPs, etc when compated to CDs...quite a few even exited using the format...a turntable is not a plug and play device like a CD player
you need to get introduced to how to use, calibrate and maintain a turntable, also use, maintain and store your LPs. better to start with a simple to use and trouble free Technics SL series...once you are familiar with the art, then move to the ProJECTs and REGAs...
i've had numerous friends who showed interest in the format, spent close to a lakh on a new high-end TT, new LPs only to end up being disappointed by distortion, tracking issues, ticks and pops on LPs, etc when compated to CDs...quite a few even exited using the format...a turntable is not a plug and play device like a CD player
MAYHEM_METAL
Member
my 2 cents...beginners should not start with fancy turntables...using a turntable and listening to enjoyable music on LPs is an art...unlike playing CDs.
you need to get introduced to how to use, calibrate and maintain a turntable, also use, maintain and store your LPs. better to start with a simple to use and trouble free Technics SL series...once you are familiar with the art, then move to the ProJECTs and REGAs...
i've had numerous friends who showed interest in the format, spent close to a lakh on a new high-end TT, new LPs only to end up being disappointed by distortion, tracking issues, ticks and pops on LPs, etc when compated to CDs...quite a few even exited using the format...a turntable is not a plug and play device like a CD player
You are 100% right. Listen to this guy he know it all. Man you the Vinyl MAN. He know what he is talking. You deserve an Award.:clapping:
I also wanted to add just buying a exp TT does not mean the best sound. There is a BIG chain involved to get it right. As mentioned above not a plug and play device like a CD player. Starting from the needle that traces the grove accurately Bla Bla Bla to finally good speakers. See its not easy. If the chains is not correct it will never sound right however Exp high end the TT. I have been listen to Lps since years. Never gave up the format or got fed-up. Just learnt a lot over the years and still learning. Do you need to learn about CD? I agree with Reubensm to start with Second Hand Technics SL. They were the best in 70s & 80s and still spinning in 2011
hyeah: (of course cant beat your High End Exp TT) I love talking about the Lps & TT and can go on like a grandfather hyeah:
reubensm
Well-Known Member
You are 100% right. Listen to this guy he know it all. Man you the Vinyl MAN. He know what he is talking. You deserve an Award.:clapping:
I also wanted to add just buying a exp TT does not mean the best sound. There is a BIG chain involved to get it right. As mentioned above not a plug and play device like a CD player. Starting from the needle that traces the grove accurately Bla Bla Bla to finally good speakers. See its not easy. If the chains is not correct it will never sound right however Exp high end the TT. I have been listen to Lps since years. Never gave up the format or got fed-up. Just learnt a lot over the years and still learning. Do you need to learn about CD? I agree with Reubensm to start with Second Hand Technics SL. They were the best in 70s & 80s and still spinning in 2011
thanks MAYHEM_METAL, I've too have been into the format for a very long time, since a kid of 5 yrs, to be precise. Love the format!!
MAYHEM_METAL
Member
WOW. Me too. I remember when I was 6yrs I broke my Dads TT driving a car with the platter and using the Arm as the Gear of the car. Dad was
sachu888
Well-Known Member
You are 100% right. Listen to this guy he know it all. Man you the Vinyl MAN. He know what he is talking. You deserve an Award.:clapping:
I also wanted to add just buying a exp TT does not mean the best sound. There is a BIG chain involved to get it right. As mentioned above not a plug and play device like a CD player. Starting from the needle that traces the grove accurately Bla Bla Bla to finally good speakers. See its not easy. If the chains is not correct it will never sound right however Exp high end the TT. I have been listen to Lps since years. Never gave up the format or got fed-up. Just learnt a lot over the years and still learning. Do you need to learn about CD? I agree with Reubensm to start with Second Hand Technics SL. They were the best in 70s & 80s and still spinning in 2011
+1 Technics Sl series is a good option to start.It sounds great and very easy to setup.You can get it for around Rs10000/-.I have a Technics Sl-D303,sounds great with minimum adjustments.
Regards,
Sachin
my 2 cents...beginners should not start with fancy turntables...using a turntable and listening to enjoyable music on LPs is an art...unlike playing CDs.
you need to get introduced to how to use, calibrate and maintain a turntable, also use, maintain and store your LPs. better to start with a simple to use and trouble free Technics SL series...once you are familiar with the art, then move to the ProJECTs and REGAs...
i've had numerous friends who showed interest in the format, spent close to a lakh on a new high-end TT, new LPs only to end up being disappointed by distortion, tracking issues, ticks and pops on LPs, etc when compated to CDs...quite a few even exited using the format...a turntable is not a plug and play device like a CD player
Agree with Reubensm if you are experimenting with Vinyl, better do a "Proof of concept" first . No harm in experimenting with a used TT which you can sell of for a similiar price.
but if you convinced on the format and have the "Keeda"to get the best sound..would still say get a very good one or else this cycle gets to you
.
As Reubensm has correctly pointed out , if you dont get it right, you will get disapointed with the format and player as though the fault is with the setup.
reubensm
Well-Known Member
WOW. Me too. I remember when I was 6yrs I broke my Dads TT driving a car with the platter and using the Arm as the Gear of the car. Dad was
:yahoo: sounds pretty traumatic for your dad's turntable...my dad had an HMV Calypso, then moved to Garrard SP25 which he had until his demise...as a 5 year old, he used to ask me to turn over the LPs once a side was played. This is how i got interested. I was actually quite good at it and he used to showcase his son's new-found ability to his friends...later, i restored his Garrard and sold it to a fellow forum member as we were moving to a new home and the W.A.F stepped in on old stuff. I myself started off with a el cheapo Teac P988, graduated to a Technics SLBD20B (both bought while on trips to the United States) and then got hold of my current Technics SL3200 from my good friend, Raghav (Ignite/Chennai) which I love so much...
Apologies in advance....did'nt intend to hijack the thread!!
Hi folks,
With all due respect to you all, I have a slightly different take in this issue.
Firstly, I do not want to say anything about how much money a particular music lover wants to spend on a particular equipment. That is his or her decision, and I do not want to interfere there.
Secondly, the most vital point in the feasibility of having a TT now is the source material. If one can make sure, one will have adequate supply of good quality source material, then it is okay, I think. It was one of the most important issues that concerned me when I was considering the procurement of a new TT of respectable quality.
Thirdly, given all the above, if one (already owning a very good CD based system) decides to get a new TT, unless the new TT gives a new dimension to his or her music listening, there is absolutely no point in doing this. In this case, Amit has a Ayon CD1s CDP, a Leben CS 300 amp and Usher BE718 speakers. I am very very familiar with each of these. It's close to an excellent system. The TT has to add something substantial to this, otherwise it would be having a TT just for its sake. In Prem's case too, he had to get something as good as the EMT to make this endeavor meaningful, and meaningful it was for him, so much so that he got rid of his Esoteric transport+DAC separates.
Fourthly, given all the nitty gritties of setting up a TT, including cartridge alignment, arm balancing and counter-weight adjustment, anti-skating, VTA and what not, it is still better to get a new TT if one already has a decent system. These adjustments are not any easier in an ill-maintained used TT. Moreover, irrespective of whether it's a new or an used TT, the trick is to get it from a seller who is extremely knowledgeable about TTs and would help in setting it up. Alternatively, he has to have a friend near-by who can set it up for him so that he can also learn the trade for himself. Once set up, there is no need to change the settings in a big way everyday. One just needs to take general care, like using clean vinyl and clean cart.
I grew up with a TT at home from as far back in my childhood as I can remember. I also have always owned a TT since 1986, since the time I started owning stereo separates. I started with a Technics DD. Although I have never considered myself a true vinyl person (and do not have the knowledge close to you guys have), but as far as I understand the situation, although we all mean the best for Amit, a generic solution is not applicable to everybody. I honestly think he has to have something that will give a new dimension to his music enjoyment, otherwise he will not be satisfied. This is regardless of brands or whether he gets a belt drive or a direct drive, or a new or a used one.
While I think a newcomer to this medium should precisely know what he is about to get into, he should not at the same time get scared of getting into it, if he is willing. As I said, having lived with TTs almost all my life, I do not think it is such a big deal living with them. I may be wrong because I was never seriously into it before (strange, isn't it?). I hope I am not completely wrong.
Regards
With all due respect to you all, I have a slightly different take in this issue.
Firstly, I do not want to say anything about how much money a particular music lover wants to spend on a particular equipment. That is his or her decision, and I do not want to interfere there.
Secondly, the most vital point in the feasibility of having a TT now is the source material. If one can make sure, one will have adequate supply of good quality source material, then it is okay, I think. It was one of the most important issues that concerned me when I was considering the procurement of a new TT of respectable quality.
Thirdly, given all the above, if one (already owning a very good CD based system) decides to get a new TT, unless the new TT gives a new dimension to his or her music listening, there is absolutely no point in doing this. In this case, Amit has a Ayon CD1s CDP, a Leben CS 300 amp and Usher BE718 speakers. I am very very familiar with each of these. It's close to an excellent system. The TT has to add something substantial to this, otherwise it would be having a TT just for its sake. In Prem's case too, he had to get something as good as the EMT to make this endeavor meaningful, and meaningful it was for him, so much so that he got rid of his Esoteric transport+DAC separates.
Fourthly, given all the nitty gritties of setting up a TT, including cartridge alignment, arm balancing and counter-weight adjustment, anti-skating, VTA and what not, it is still better to get a new TT if one already has a decent system. These adjustments are not any easier in an ill-maintained used TT. Moreover, irrespective of whether it's a new or an used TT, the trick is to get it from a seller who is extremely knowledgeable about TTs and would help in setting it up. Alternatively, he has to have a friend near-by who can set it up for him so that he can also learn the trade for himself. Once set up, there is no need to change the settings in a big way everyday. One just needs to take general care, like using clean vinyl and clean cart.
I grew up with a TT at home from as far back in my childhood as I can remember. I also have always owned a TT since 1986, since the time I started owning stereo separates. I started with a Technics DD. Although I have never considered myself a true vinyl person (and do not have the knowledge close to you guys have), but as far as I understand the situation, although we all mean the best for Amit, a generic solution is not applicable to everybody. I honestly think he has to have something that will give a new dimension to his music enjoyment, otherwise he will not be satisfied. This is regardless of brands or whether he gets a belt drive or a direct drive, or a new or a used one.
While I think a newcomer to this medium should precisely know what he is about to get into, he should not at the same time get scared of getting into it, if he is willing. As I said, having lived with TTs almost all my life, I do not think it is such a big deal living with them. I may be wrong because I was never seriously into it before (strange, isn't it?). I hope I am not completely wrong.
Regards
Prices matter, I feel I should pass the experience I have got during my struggle to a fellow enthusiast who is about to venture into this highly expensive hobby.
Vinyl culture has always remained elusive for common audience. Check the price of KUDRAT or MEHBOOBA LP in late 70's or early 80's, Rs. 38/- for a music album was way too far, its only T-series LPs that became affordable. Even now, a brand new company released record cost at least 500/-, thats not a price for a hobby, is it??
Why we intend to buy high-end TTs? to get fidelity above everything as solidity, endurance, ease of use factors can be bought at a very low price. I have always felt its the record source that should decide the investment on TTs. In many genres some one starting to collect LPs to day will become bankrupt if only buys brand new records. So if records of a genre can sourced easily go for it otherwise respect the reality.
I completely agree that TTs are not plug and play, one needs to have certain affection because along with it comes serious bookkeeping, cleaning. All intricate setting of a TT can not be mastered overnight. Its always better to give yourself some time with a direct drive to understand how a pitch fader or hydraulics of a cuing works. Once one collects enough records and have a reasonably clear understanding of the functions can go for Regas or Pro-jects or Technics or Thorens......
TTs are not dying, if Rega RP1 has made mark today, something else will definitely replace it down the line, so deciding one's priority is most important as once invested heavily the path of retreat is not only costly but painful too
Arnab
Vinyl culture has always remained elusive for common audience. Check the price of KUDRAT or MEHBOOBA LP in late 70's or early 80's, Rs. 38/- for a music album was way too far, its only T-series LPs that became affordable. Even now, a brand new company released record cost at least 500/-, thats not a price for a hobby, is it??
Why we intend to buy high-end TTs? to get fidelity above everything as solidity, endurance, ease of use factors can be bought at a very low price. I have always felt its the record source that should decide the investment on TTs. In many genres some one starting to collect LPs to day will become bankrupt if only buys brand new records. So if records of a genre can sourced easily go for it otherwise respect the reality.
I completely agree that TTs are not plug and play, one needs to have certain affection because along with it comes serious bookkeeping, cleaning. All intricate setting of a TT can not be mastered overnight. Its always better to give yourself some time with a direct drive to understand how a pitch fader or hydraulics of a cuing works. Once one collects enough records and have a reasonably clear understanding of the functions can go for Regas or Pro-jects or Technics or Thorens......
TTs are not dying, if Rega RP1 has made mark today, something else will definitely replace it down the line, so deciding one's priority is most important as once invested heavily the path of retreat is not only costly but painful too
Arnab
For excellent sound that won't break the bank, the 5 Star Award Winning Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Bookshelf Speakers is the one to consider!
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