Tube Amplifiers

[Analogous]

Emotion over science?

Tube Amplifiers

The audiophile preference for tube amps over solid state is based more on emotion than on science.

skeptoid.com

 

[reignofchaos]

Whatever floats your boat and application. I use both SS and Tube on different speakers.

 

[Analogous]

Whatever floats your boat and application. I use both SS and Tube on different speakers.

Not pushing or pulling anything. Just sharing an article I found informative

 

[Nitin K]

Whatever floats your boat and application. I use both SS and Tube on different speakers.

I have never heard tube amplifiers as I have always heard and have had solid state amps.
Just curious to know what is different about tube amps when you hear them on the same set of speakers with respect to tone and sound stage leaving emotion aside. Thank you.

 

[reignofchaos]

I have never heard tube amplifiers as I have always heard and have had solid state amps.
Just curious to know what is different about tube amps when you hear them on the same set of speakers with respect to tone and sound stage leaving emotion aside. Thank you.

They sound very liquid in the mid range. They seem to connect better to the music with the right speaker. They appear to be more tonally pure to me. They are never harsh which which solid state gear can easily become. Also changing the type of tube and quality of tube has a profound effect on the amplifier. Better the tube, better it sounds.

 

[Nitin K]

They sound very liquid in the mid range. They seem to connect better to the music with the right speaker. They appear to be more tonally pure to me.

By liquid you mean without any hint of harshness in the mids & upper frequencies. In some threads I have read that certain tube brands like Telefunken are more pronounced in high frequencies which could cause some listening fatigue depending on the speakers paired with.

 

[arj]

Emotion over science?

Tube Amplifiers

The audiophile preference for tube amps over solid state is based more on emotion than on science.

skeptoid.com

Well as far as I know listening to Music is about emotion.

Measuring Sound is Science.

I prefer the former

 

[AP@1992]

I have never heard tube amplifiers as I have always heard and have had solid state amps.
Just curious to know what is different about tube amps when you hear them on the same set of speakers with respect to tone and sound stage leaving emotion aside. Thank you.

Tubes amps in general have big, wide and deep sound stage. They sound more life like, in other words, presence of sibilance and harshness is better controlled. Emotion aside, all most all tube amps have a better midrange clarity than similarly priced SS AMPS. They aren't the fastest or the most detailed in general. Tone mostly favour a warmer character.

These are general attributes, however sound characteristics of tubes amp considerably change with tube rolling. THATs for me is the most fun part. This is true for different tubes as well same tubes of different brands.

So, fun with tube is not entirely about the sound, it's the assortment of number of tubes and the different sound characteristics that they bring to the table.

For eg

A) My boyyurange EL 34 tube amp (with Mullards EL34 and Russian made 6HI preamp tube and Mullards GZ34 rectifier) sound absolutely liquid smooth in the midrange with deep, wide sound stage. In songs that compliments it's midrange heavy character, it sounded better to my ears than Marantz PM 8006 and Regards Elex Mark IV or any other sub 1.5L ss amps which I own. However, songs where treble and bass extension are necessary, you may not feel totally satisfied

B) Whereas, my Cayin A-88T with KT88 power tubes, sounds very different. Clear, precise and fast. Superb bass and treble extension. Midrange is less warm and smooth as compared to my boyyurange but the entire sound is very powerful, not just as a tube amp, but in general. Fun is, you can add that midrange smoothness by tube rolling.

I have heard PPL saying very different things about 300,B, 2A3 tubes as well. Never tried them


To sum it up, the midrange heavy character (or at the least the midrange clarity) and the ability to effect sound character by tube rolling make tube amp fun and entertaining and appealing to heart more than mind.

 

[Nitin K]

Tubes amps in general have big, wide and deep sound stage. They sound more life like, in other words, presence of sibilance and harshness is better controlled. Emotion aside, all most all tube amps have a better midrange clarity than similarly priced SS AMPS. They aren't the fastest or the most detailed in general. Tone mostly favour a warmer character.

These are general attributes, however sound characteristics of tubes amp considerably change with tube rolling. THATs for me is the most fun part. This is true for different tubes as well same tubes of different brands.

So, fun with tube is not entirely about the sound, it's the assortment of number of tubes and the different sound characteristics that they bring to the table.

For eg

A) My boyyurange EL 34 tube amp (with Mullards EL34 and Russian made 6HI preamp tube and Mullards GZ34 rectifier) sound absolutely liquid smooth in the midrange with deep, wide sound stage. In songs that compliments it's midrange heavy character, it sounded better to my ears than Marantz PM 8006 and Regards Elex Mark IV or any other sub 1.5L ss amps which I own. However, songs where treble and bass extension are necessary, you may not feel totally satisfied

B) Whereas, my Cayin A-88T with KT88 power tubes, sounds very different. Clear, precise and fast. Superb bass and treble extension. Midrange is less warm and smooth as compared to my boyyurange but the entire sound is very powerful, not just as a tube amp, but in general. Fun is, you can add that midrange smoothness by tube rolling.

I have heard PPL saying very different things about 300,B, 2A3 tubes as well. Never tried them


To sum it up, the midrange heavy character (or at the least the midrange clarity) and the ability to effect sound character by tube rolling make tube amp fun and entertaining and appealing to heart more than mind.

Thanks a lot for the detailed nice explanation. Really appreciate it.

 

[coaltrain]

Emotion over science?

Oh, absolutely!
It‘s hard to keep one’s emotions in check when this is what greets you at the start of a listening session…

 

[reignofchaos]

By liquid you mean without any hint of harshness in the mids & upper frequencies. In some threads I have read that certain tube brands like Telefunken are more pronounced in high frequencies which could cause some listening fatigue depending on the speakers paired with.

By liquid I mean they just seem to sound more like human voices.

 

[yogibear]

Here are some and not all pictured but still not enough…. The magic is binding !!!

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Here are some and not all pictured but still not enough…. The magic is binding !!!

View attachment 82676

View attachment 82677

Holy Cow

Thats one enormous collection....enjoy

Oh, absolutely!
It‘s hard to keep one’s emotions in check when this is what greets you at the start of a listening session…

View attachment 82672

Gorgeous

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Emotion over science?

If there’s emotion in the recorded piece, then a rig that reproduces it closer to ‘as recorded’ should be able to bring it out. Emotion added by amps/speakers is a distortion, even if likeable and might come at the cost of rhythm and pace. Depending on the musical and listening preferences that’s a bargain some might take, while others refuse.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Thanks a lot for the detailed nice explanation. Really appreciate it.

If you are really curious nitin, you can try adding a tube buffer somewhere in your chain and see if you like it

There are some well regarded ones from musical fidelity than apparently dont degrade the sound in general.

 

[Analogous]

Oh, absolutely!
It‘s hard to keep one’s emotions in check when this is what greets you at the start of a listening session…

View attachment 82672

It’s a bar!!! Bottled nectar that intoxicates? The (visual) association is strong!

 

[arj]

If there’s emotion in the recorded piece, then a rig that reproduces it closer to ‘as recorded’ should be able to bring it out. Emotion added by amps/speakers is a distortion, even if likeable and might come at the cost of rhythm and pace. Depending on the musical and listening preferences that’s a bargain some might take, while others refuse.

While listening is about emotion, building the Amp/Speaker etc is all about science hence that does need measurement.

I actually do not agree with the original article on classifying tubes into emotion at all. it is the design of an amp which makes it analytical or bring the X factor on emotion.
Every recording has emotion since any decent musicians play with emotion..else there would not be any music. there are systems which reproduce it well , reproduce it badly and everything in between ! SS and tube should not even enter this discussion

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

While listening is about emotion, building the Amp/Speaker etc is all about science hence that does need measurement.

I actually do not agree with the original article on classifying tubes into emotion at all. it is the design of an amp which makes it analytical or bring the X factor on emotion.
Every recording has emotion since any decent musicians play with emotion..else there would not be any music. there are systems which reproduce it well , reproduce it badly and everything in between ! SS and tube should not even enter this discussion

Fully agree

We are only trying to recreate a pre-recorded event in time, to end up with a convincing illusion of the original act in our rooms. And both tubes and SS can achieve that in equal measure if the rest of the system is well matched. And emotion has to be in the track and not in the gear.

 

[Analogous]

While listening is about emotion, building the Amp/Speaker etc is all about science hence that does need measurement.

I actually do not agree with the original article on classifying tubes into emotion at all. it is the design of an amp which makes it analytical or bring the X factor on emotion.
Every recording has emotion since any decent musicians play with emotion..else there would not be any music. there are systems which reproduce it well , reproduce it badly and everything in between ! SS and tube should not even enter this discussion

The article does state “The audiophile preference for tube amps over solid state is based more on emotion than on science.“
The emotion in this context may not be just about the music reproduction by tube amps but Also about nostalgia, the light show of the tubes and the warmth of the glow and the actual heat while operating.
Just saying…

 

[arj]

The article does state “The audiophile preference for tube amps over solid state is based more on emotion than on science.“
The emotion in this context may not be just about the music reproduction by tube amps but Also about nostalgia, the light show of the tubes and the warmth of the glow and the actual heat while operating.
Just saying…

good point on the article !
Although again, most tube amps may not have anything of the above ie they are inside a box and there is no light and warmth seen Mine dont and you would know there is a tube only from the sound.