TurnTables Sound better than Digital !!! - Really ???

[rsud]

Are they? I hadn't noticed! A little healthy banter

My last comment was a joke. I've been racking my brains for the digital equivalent of a "stuck groove," So far, I can't do any better than "a bit stuck," and that's not very good at all. Anyone? The generations of records and record players have even contributed metaphors and sayings to the language: the world of digital, umm ...hasn't. Yet.



Indeed. There is a lot to discuss, technical, aesthetic and personal taste. All valid areas.

I think I have it for you. My quote when digital was young was that "digital sound made my ears bleed". Up until the last few years I could not stay in a room when digital was playing over a good high-end setup. The harshness of the sound was quite displeasing. Now, its tolerable and at times enjoyable. But put on a record and the digital experience feels like a night with a cheap prostitute!

 

[Hiten]

There are physical limitations to the vinyls which require good amount of money to overcome. If one likes pre digital era music vinyls are a good 'source'.
I read somewhere analogue is like paintings and digital is like photographs.
Regards

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Well, that would be a strange analogy, because (at bottom line) paintings represent an interpretation, whereas photos represent a reality. The artist (apart from "photo realists") are not at all interested in getting all the detail. Even the illustrator of botanical or other natural-history works, looks at his subjects and produces a picture of an archetype, not a specific plant.

Well, I guess the photographer has a range of influence over his picture too, but, at least until it reaches Photoshop, what is there is there and what isn't isn't: he cannot just leave stuff out of that frame.

 

[Saket]

.
I read somewhere analogue is like paintings and digital is like photographs.
Regards

With due respect to Thad's interpretation, I think that what Hiten actually tried to convey by comparing vinyls to paintings is that analog sounds more soulful & has a higher emotional connect.
Photographs are just like originals technically but often lack the interest that a painting of the same landscape would command by any viewer!

Just imagine a painting & photograph of Taj Mahal kept side-by-side. I would always prefer to lay me eyes on the painting!

Regards.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yes, I got the intention, but picked holes in the analogy. Although, picking in holes in an analogy can also expose faults in the thinking behind it. I doubt very much that, if tested, you would always prefer the painting to the photo!

 

[Saket]

I doubt very much that, if tested, you would always prefer the painting to the photo!

Of course, the painting has to be decent.... & vinyls scratch-less; just to plug the holes in the analogy!

Regards.

 

[Staxxx]

Now I am beginning to understand why I have been a collector of photography for years! haha......

 

[prepress]

Better option is : Convert vinyl tracks into digital tracks using good recording software (e.g. Sonic Foundry Sound Forge), it can also remove vinyl clicks/distortion improve the levels, gain, play with channels L/R etc and SAVE the final tracks as 320kbps. And enjoy the Vinyl quality on computer (make your personal playlists) or your personal digital/analog machines.

 

[himadri]

But the best analog and the best digital that I have heard were certainly at par.

That's the moot point.In my limited exposure/ownership of midfy/ mid resolution systems, pound for pound ,vinyl has always come on top.
cheers

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It might come out on top pound for pound, but, given the high cost of anything but entry-level LP-playing equipment, I'd be very surprised if it did so rupee for rupee :lol:

 

[malvai]

Thad... even a mid-level Rega P3 with its stock arm and cart on a mid level phono WILL come pretty darn close to a 1L Dac or CD set up.

I have tried it.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

And a PC with a good sound card will come darn close to that, I suspect.

I'm pro-digital ...but I'm not knocking turntables. I really like them.

 

[rsud]

There are physical limitations to the vinyls which require good amount of money to overcome. If one likes pre digital era music vinyls are a good 'source'.
I read somewhere analogue is like paintings and digital is like photographs.
Regards

Not true at all from my experience. A well made turntable and cartridge combo from Rega or Pro-ject which don't cost much will out-do any similarly priced or well above digital gear.

Your analogy would be belter stated that digital music is like early digital cameras before we got above 2 mega pixels. Analogue from a decent turntables is more like film. Yes, lower end turntables are like lens on cheaper camera's which give you a softer focus.

If you can, listen to systems. Opinions (in the media/web) are like posteriors (being polite), everyones got one. Only your own listening to good systems without bias is the truth.

 

[himadri]

It might come out on top pound for pound, but, given the high cost of anything but entry-level LP-playing equipment, I'd be very surprised if it did so rupee for rupee :lol:

The Rega RP3 does it rupee for rupee easily . Manav's post above seems to suggest the same.
cheers

 

[arj]

With due respect to Thad's interpretation, I think that what Hiten actually tried to convey by comparing vinyls to paintings is that analog sounds more soulful & has a higher emotional connect.
Photographs are just like originals technically but often lack the interest that a painting of the same landscape would command by any viewer!

Just imagine a painting & photograph of Taj Mahal kept side-by-side. I would always prefer to lay me eyes on the painting!

Regards.

But the fact of the matter is that neither the Photograph Nor the Painting is of the Real object. it is both an attempt at another Painting done by a person called the Audio Engineer

Just play "Why worry" and chill ..i dont suppose any views are going to be changed here

 

[sidvee]

i dont suppose any views are going to be changed here

Well said Arj:clapping:

 

[jls001]

Just play "Why worry" and chill ..i dont suppose any views are going to be changed here

Just last night I was playing Brothers in Arms (XRCD pressing) on my music PC after ages. Then this morning I spun the record of the same album.

So try both formats and chill

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The Rega RP3 does it rupee for rupee easily . Manav's post above seems to suggest the same.
cheers

I'd be very happy to own one. The only reason I don't invest in a Rega or a Pro-ject are...

... Lack of proper space to set up a hifi system properly

... (related) listening to mostly CD/PC-based music

... My deck, for all its faults and age, was a leaving present from a company I worked for for 16 years, so it has significance other than hifi.

... hearing loss makes me disinclined to invest in room-based listening, preferring to concentrate on near-field/headphone-based audio in the future.

 

[Hiten]

photos represent a reality.

Thad,
A picture can be seen repeatedly with same information. But sound is time related, once produced is lost forever and recorded sound can only be felt, perceived and interpreted with one's ability. So who will know what was/is real ?
Due to physical nature the analogue sound exists on vinyl works against it. Vinyl is difficult medium to reproduce sound with fidelity and is altered from original. One is not listening to what was recorded. Master tape source is massively amplified for cutting lathe, Both ends of fq. range is heavily emphasized/de-emphasized electronically. Amplifying lower range puts bandwidth limit on the preamp otherwise rumble noise and system resonance gets amplified, higher range has to be attenuated without eliminating high end details, the space vinyl has at its circumference is drastically reduced at the inner grooves so same info is crammed in to small space. There is a limit for channels separation for micro grooves. Unseen dust is problem even on high end system with cleanest records but one may not notice it with music. I have witnessed and recorded this on very clean vinyls. There is a reason why vinyls masters are cut at half speed and most of the vinyls one may have are not mastered at half speed.
Digital or analogue, all audio amplification is a compromise. Getting a signal amplified with out altering it gets one as close to the realism as possible. But modifying original signals is not the way to go if one wants that experience. I have heard high end systems. I would say without bashing digital that the source decides which is better digital or analogue, and some of well made vinyls on highend setup sounds good to me.
Regards

 

[Staxxx]

Thad,
A picture can be seen repeatedly with same information. But sound is time related, once produced is lost forever and recorded sound can only be felt, perceived and interpreted with one's ability. So who will know what was/is real ?
Due to physical nature the analogue sound exists on vinyl works against it. Vinyl is difficult medium to reproduce sound with fidelity and is altered from original. One is not listening to what was recorded. Master tape source is massively amplified for cutting lathe, Both ends of fq. range is heavily emphasized/de-emphasized electronically. Amplifying lower range puts bandwidth limit on the preamp otherwise rumble noise and system resonance gets amplified, higher range has to be attenuated without eliminating high end details, the space vinyl has at its circumference is drastically reduced at the inner grooves so same info is crammed in to small space. There is a limit for channels separation for micro grooves. Unseen dust is problem even on high end system with cleanest records but one may not notice it with music. I have witnessed and recorded this on very clean vinyls. There is a reason why vinyls masters are cut at half speed and most of the vinyls one may have are not mastered at half speed.
Digital or analogue, all audio amplification is a compromise. Getting a signal amplified with out altering it gets one as close to the realism as possible. But modifying original signals is not the way to go if one wants that experience. I have heard high end systems. I would say without bashing digital that the source decides which is better digital or analogue, and some of well made vinyls on highend setup sounds good to me.
Regards

Hiten, really well put and one I feel the same about strongly. It is absurd to believe that either vinyl or digital does not alter the original sound through some form of signal processing (coupled with its subsequent reproduction) and it is only a matter or which one prefers through the source one is hearing at any particular time. I have enjoyed good vinyl and good digital but neither would substitute a good concert going experience (only from the audio standpoint alone). On the other hand, I personally prefer the comfort and convenience coupled with top quality digital sound but would never knock someone who prefers sound after the signal processing that takes place in vinyl transfers.