upscaling, receiver output for LCD TV

[vashok]

Hi
Here is the problem. I am not sure if my 6 month old Onkyo SR 505 will serve any HD-ready LCD TV. Poor planning combined with a luddite personality has done me in.
I have not bought the TV yet. But I am wondering, will the lack of amp upscaling ability limit my viewing pleasure. So, will the standard video transmission seem better if I had upscaling in my receiver ? (Trust me, I have searched a few posts here already to make me look smarter while posting).
My DVD player is HDMI ready, so the direct input to the TV, hopefully takes care of the viewing movies. However, I am concerned about the TV broadcast which is not the aspect ratio which the new TVs are currently in. Moreover, I am wondering if having the upscaling facility which will probably make the 540 to 720 help ? Is my understanding correct ?
So please help. I may end up trading my 505 for a 605 if that is so. So save me some money .

Thank you,

regards
Ashok

 

[Sumit]

Hi!!

I think SR505 doesn't have HDMI and hence no Upscaling capabilities. But, why do you need upscaling in your receiver? Like you mentioned that your DVD player has HDMI, check if it can upscale too. That shd solve your Movie issues. Don't waste your money to buy a new receiver just for HDMI/Upscaling.
Secondly, if your transmission is in 4:3 and your TV is in 16:9 then the best you can do is change aspect ratio of your TV to 4:3. Or you can continue to watch stretched images. You will face this problem until the transmission is changed to 16:9 which is not in your control. The receiver can't do a thing about this. Hope this helps. Fellow bloggers....any other suggestions?

Hi
Here is the problem. I am not sure if my 6 month old Onkyo SR 505 will serve any HD-ready LCD TV. Poor planning combined with a luddite personality has done me in.
I have not bought the TV yet. But I am wondering, will the lack of amp upscaling ability limit my viewing pleasure. So, will the standard video transmission seem better if I had upscaling in my receiver ? (Trust me, I have searched a few posts here already to make me look smarter while posting).
My DVD player is HDMI ready, so the direct input to the TV, hopefully takes care of the viewing movies. However, I am concerned about the TV broadcast which is not the aspect ratio which the new TVs are currently in. Moreover, I am wondering if having the upscaling facility which will probably make the 540 to 720 help ? Is my understanding correct ?
So please help. I may end up trading my 505 for a 605 if that is so. So save me some money .

Thank you,

regards
Ashok

 

[venkatcr]

I checked the specs of the 505 at the following site:

A/V Recivers : TX-SR505 | ONKYO Asia and Oceania Website

The 505 does not seem to have an HDMI nor does it seem to do any up-scaling.

For DVD output, there is a simple solution. Connect the DVD directly to the TV with an HDMI cable. In the DVD player set the initial setting to Progressive Scanning/De-Interlacing through HDMI. Connect the DVD to the AVR with an optical cable. Now you will have an up-scaled picture courtesy of the DVD Player and surround sound courtesy of the AVR. Only thing you have to remember is to keep the TV in mute or you will hear echoing sounds.

For TV broadcasts, you can connect them through the AV, but connect the AVR to the TV through a component video cable. Onkyo has this to say about the 505

QUOTE

HDTV-Capable Component Video Switching
Cable/satellite receivers, DVRs, DVD players, media servers or game consoles can be connected simultaneously to the latest HDTVs via one component output. With a frequency range out to 50 MHz, you have more than enough bandwidth to pass 720p and 1080i signals (which require at least 37 MHz of bandwidth) to a high-definition display.

UNQUOTE

So when you are watching DVD choose the HDMI on the TV and when you watching TV broadcasts, choose component cable on the TV.

The 505 sounds like a good receiver. Don't throw it away now, you should start looking for a new AVR only after about an year of using your existing one. Technology is changing fast, and it is difficult to keep up with it.

 

[psychotropic]

Venkat and others can correct me if I am wrong, but from my reading this is what I understand

1) Your HDTV already has a scaler.....that upscales and downscales as necessary, to give you the best picture possible. A full HD TV will upscale all signals other than 1080p, an HD Ready TV will upscale signals below 720p and downscale signals higher than that.....that should at a base-level be sufficient to upscale whatever SD material tha tyou have.

2) In addition to this most DVD players these days days (and I think almost all of them which have HDMI output) will upscale. Some will upscale only pu to 1080i, but many of the latest ones will upscale to 1080p.

So already two devices are there doing the upscaling. Technically speaking, there shouldn't be a need to have your AVR do the upscaling as well. However, if any of your components has a Faroudja chip or some very fancy upscaling chip.....then let that device do the upscaling, because that will do it better than the others. Even otherwise you can compare the upscaling being done by your TV, DVD player and AVR, and see which does it the best.

Also, logically it would seem that a single scaling operation (up or down) should be better than multiple scaling operations, does that make sense?

 

[psychotropic]

oh yes as Sumit said.......scaling has nothing to do with the aspect ratio. aspect ratio is the horizontal:vertical ratio.....it can be stretched or squeezed and neither will look as good as the native aspect ratio, although there are technologies that claim to do a better job of this squeezing/stretching.

With regard to upscaling (which is regarding resolution), my above post should clarify. Don't throw away your AVR. Hook up your cable-box to your TV, and let it upscale to the extent that it can. SD cable is not going to look particularly stunning on an HDTV anyways. Existing cable boxes only provide composite connections.....so that's another issue. Once Reliance and or Bharti introduce their boxes with component connections, and with your TV's scaling, you should get a decent (although not stunning) picture.

 

[amol12]

I have a rather silly question related to viewing SD on larger LCD/Plasmas where one can perceive the deteriorating quality.
1. Do these panels provide a way to reduce the size of picture displayed (kind of -ve zoom). Say a 42 inch LCD/Plasma displaying only in 29 inch area.
2. Also if this does exists how is the pic quality - similar to a 29 inch CRT? (At least)

 

[vashok]

Wonderful response. Thanks so much. This really helped.

regards
Ashok

oh yes as Sumit said.......scaling has nothing to do with the aspect ratio. aspect ratio is the horizontal:vertical ratio.....it can be stretched or squeezed and neither will look as good as the native aspect ratio, although there are technologies that claim to do a better job of this squeezing/stretching.

With regard to upscaling (which is regarding resolution), my above post should clarify. Don't throw away your AVR. Hook up your cable-box to your TV, and let it upscale to the extent that it can. SD cable is not going to look particularly stunning on an HDTV anyways. Existing cable boxes only provide composite connections.....so that's another issue. Once Reliance and or Bharti introduce their boxes with component connections, and with your TV's scaling, you should get a decent (although not stunning) picture.

 

[venkatcr]

Venkat and others can correct me if I am wrong, but from my reading this is what I understand

1) Your HDTV already has a scaler.....that upscales and downscales as necessary, to give you the best picture possible. A full HD TV will upscale all signals other than 1080p, an HD Ready TV will upscale signals below 720p and downscale signals higher than that.....that should at a base-level be sufficient to upscale whatever SD material tha tyou have.

2) In addition to this most DVD players these days days (and I think almost all of them which have HDMI output) will upscale. Some will upscale only pu to 1080i, but many of the latest ones will upscale to 1080p.

Yes, upscaling, can be done by the DVD Player, the AVR or the TV, Only thing to remember, is that all TVs, even, if they are FULL HD compatible, need not necessarily upscale. When A TV spec says Full HD, it means it can accept and display 1080p signals at 1920 x 1080 rsolution. Manufacturers may leave out the upscaling capability to keep costs low.

So already two devices are there doing the upscaling. Technically speaking, there shouldn't be a need to have your AVR do the upscaling as well. However, if any of your components has a Faroudja chip or some very fancy upscaling chip.....then let that device do the upscaling, because that will do it better than the others. Even otherwise you can compare the upscaling being done by your TV, DVD player and AVR, and see which does it the best.

Also, logically it would seem that a single scaling operation (up or down) should be better than multiple scaling operations, does that make sense?

Initially upscaling was available in very expensive components such as DVD players and AVRs. Most of the TVs did not have upscaling built in. Because of competition, the upscaling feature is trickling down to literally all components. Upscaling will continue to be available on both DVD players and AVRs. As Blu-ray or other alternate formats become popular, DVD players will need the processing capabilities to decode these high resolution formats. Providing the upscaling when you can decode HD format should not be too much of an issue.

If you have multiple components with upscaling engines, as I have said before, you must individually try the upscaling feature of each component and then decide which one you like.

In most house a, AVR is becoming a central processing unit for audio and video. So most people will prefer that the AVR does all the processing including upscaling. The advantage is that you can connect multiple sources to the AVR and know that it will all be scaled up to the best possible resolution - be it one or more DVD players, a set top box, a satellite receiver, and now, video from the Internet. Similarly you can keep a AVR in the HT room, and drive a TV in you bedroom. Here you may buy a cheaper and smaller TV that will again be driver to its max capabilities by the AVR.

I have a rather silly question related to viewing SD on larger LCD/Plasmas where one can perceive the deteriorating quality.

1. Do these panels provide a way to reduce the size of picture displayed (kind of -ve zoom). Say a 42 inch LCD/Plasma displaying only in 29 inch area.

2. Also if this does exists how is the pic quality - similar to a 29 inch CRT? (At least)

Oh, how I wish this was possible! Unfortunately the freedom to set your screen size is available only on computer monitors, and digital TVs that are driven by a PC. Though the panel perse can handle display of of any size in any part of the panel, the TV receiver does not have the processing capabilities to do this. Some TVs had this feature called PnP or Picture-in-Picture. While watching one channel, you can have a smaller screen that you can use to surf channels to see what other programs are running. But for some reason this was not very popular, or manufacturers decided it was not worthwhile pushing that feature.

The concept of upscaling has been brought in so that you do not perceive any deterioration in quality. If you have a decent DVD player or an AVR, you should be able to get very good resolution even with SD DVD. We will discuss this elsewhere, but the media is not the culprit for poor resolution. I am talking about the technology, and not the quality of the media contents. if you use a badly copied or pirated print, no upscaling from any component can help you.

Cheers