USB DAC/Headphone Amp Combo or Separates?

[aashish351]

Hi Folks!

It's been a long time! Hope my favorite hi-fi forum is thriving as always.

Since my current circumstances don't allow me to keep an in-room hi-fi setup, I had to setup a personal audio system. Being in UK allowed me to get my hands on some amazing deals on Audiolab Q-DAC (300) and Grado SR80i (100). I must admit, every praise I have heard about Grado is 100% true! And, every praise I have heard about open headphones in general is also 100% true.

Anyway, my question is directed to the personal audio audiophiles among us (I know a thing or two about home audio, but in this space I am a newbie). Please relay your experiences on differences between USB DAC/Headphone Amp Combos versus headphone separates (DAC + Head Amp) in pure audio improvement terms. Put another way, should I expect improvements in adding a headphone amplifier to this setup. Of course I am not talking about portable toys, but comparable desktop amps - Little Dot MK4, Musical Fidelity V90 HPA, Project Head Box DS, Graham Slee Novo etc.

To clarify - I only listen to lossless 16/44, 24/96 and 24/192 FLAC / ALAC through Bitperfect on Mac or Foobar-ASIO on PC.

 

[anm]

Some companies like schiit and upyo some time back hrt believe that amp and dac should be separate. I feel it can be designed to keep them in box and still isolate them from each other. Personally I would like a single box solution to cut out on desk space and wire clutter. One pair rca and one power cord is too much if you keep it on pffice desk or even at home.
But the fact is that I have separates. Two headphone amps which are both assembled by gurubhai and he has not attempted a dac yet.

 

[indialogue]

It really depends. Are you happy with a purchase for a long period of time, or are you the type that looks to experiment with different components and see how they sound. If the latter, than separates make sense so that you can try out different DACs and amplifiers and see what fits your headphones best.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Aashish, hope your time in UK is too pleasant to miss us.

I have been where you stand now. I had to restrict myself to portable music for a long time and scars of which can still be seen in my drawers, which are full of portable audio gear.

I will save the long story for another day, but not too busy for the shorter version of the story.

In portable audio journey, the nirvana can be achieved in many ways, depending on the sound signature that suits your personal taste. Regardless what your taste, it's way easier to achieve nirvana in portable audio than in a full system, for, the most difficult to control aspects (the room, and the treatments, and the cables and the elevators and the long list of blah) are eliminated.

(1) One of the many ways is to go for an easy to drive headphone such as your Grado SR80i, or AKG 701 and try them with various tube amps. I have tried a couple of Little Dot amps (still have one with me lying unused) but they didn't cut it for me.

(2) Another way is to go for hard to drive phones (Sennheiser, Beyerdynamics) and power them with a solid-state amp.

I have tried a number of celebrated headphones including the Sennheiser HD 650, AKG 701, Grado SR60i (all of which I own till date) with a number of amps and I can tell you to try two combinations to understand your own taste correctly.

(A) Little Dot + Grado SR80i/AKG 701
(2) Any muscle solid state amp (FiiO, Nuforce) + Sennhesier HD 5xx/6xx

These combinations produce two different kind of sounds and one of these will be to your liking. Which combination you will like will give away the direction you should choose. (Incidentally, I am in India these days. So if you are here too, and wish to try any or all of these combinations, PM me. I have everything you need to pimp you into portable audio world).

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It really depends. Are you happy with a purchase for a long period of time, or are you the type that looks to experiment with different components and see how they sound. If the latter, than separates make sense so that you can try out different DACs and amplifiers and see what fits your headphones best.

I began with the ambition of some fairly high-end combo box. I was thinking about Burson, Lehman, that kind of thing. I don't know if I wuold ever have actually had the cash to buy (one day maybe) but I still thought combo as a stepping stone. Then I made an experimental purchase of the ODAC, and another of the Bravo Audio Ocean (didn't work out, not stable, a bad second-hand buy; new would probably have been fine).

Whether the ODAC actually weighs in equal to DACs ten times its price can be (and is) debated, but it certainly good enough to feed a decent amplifier. So I thought I would keep it, for at least medium term, and look to using better amplifiers with it.

I had a fascination with the SPL Phonitor. Perhaps it was a bit of an industrial-look fetish for all those lovely knobs and meters (take a look, but be careful, you might fall for it too) ...and for their crosstalk technology, but I am not yet close to saving up for $1000 amplifiers!

New Kid on block was then the ifi range. I had heard the iCAN on a visit to Singapore, and enjoyed their crosstalk-like "3D" implementation. On my next visit I bought it. Certainly, it has a nice sound --- but I'm a realtively new "head-fi-er" too, so don't know how to compare. Anyway, others seem to rave too, and it is currently No 1 in the Head-fi site ratings (whatever that means, however they calculate it: could it really mean that it is "better" than multi-thou-$ kit? Probably not, probably just means more people afford it and vote for it!). Anyway, you could add it to your interested list.

Yesterday, I learnt that the Phonitor 2 was launched last November --- so now I am all lustfull and itchy all over again .

On the headphone front, although I feel very happy with so-comfortable AT-ADH900s on my head, the lustful eyes seek to gaze on Audeze!

Even though India may be worse, UK is not at all the best place to buy stuff. 1 dollar somehow becomes 1 pound when purchasing anything coming from America, and, wherever it comes from, there is the stinging 20% VAT . I wonder how long you are there for? If it is for the forseeable future, then that is something one has to live with as part of the cost of living and everything else. If it is for a fixed duration, then the time to buy more expensive kit is just before returning to India, when you should be able to reclaim that VAT on the way out.

Since putting on headphones solely because I can't now listen to music all night, I have come to love them. Somebody once told me that once I got used to headphones I wouldn't want to go back to speakers, and it is a long acknowledged fact that, in audio quality, one has to spend in orders of magnitude more on speakers to get the same. Of course, there are limitations in soundstage and music-in-the-head. I doubt that 'phones can rival a really wonderful pair of speakers, but ...better increase your speaker budget by *10. Or times *100!

Happy Headphone Listening! When UK winter comes, you might want something more fully-around-the-ear than the grados ...to keep your ears warm! :lol:

(Actually, it seems that UK winter, and UK monsoon, is all year now! )


~

 

[anm]

Schiit and rsa are few dac/ amp companies that u may want to explore further. Importing to uk might be easier and cheaper compared to India.
Oppo alao has an upcoming headphone amp.

Ranjeetji - you have got me very curious. Would like to show up at your place some day. Ubfortunately not able to find time. To many things going on at the same time.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Sure Anant, it will be nice to meet you. I will be in town last week of this month. Please make a plan if possible and drop me a message whenever you wish to drop by.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Importing to uk might be easier and cheaper compared to India.

Not necessarily. The couriers charge the customs and tax and add on a hefty collection charge as if they were doing us a favour! One might save a bit compared to the local price, but the final, all inclusive price, compared to the one seen in $ on the net, can be a big disapointment :sad:

 

[aashish351]

Thank you all for comments so far. Very helpful. Just to recap my main dilemma - I already have a dac/hpa combo. It is not a star but decent for the price in the mid-end budget. I'm contemplating the benefits of bypassing the headphone amp section of the audiolab qdac and adding a separate hpa in the mid-end range. For example if the dac/hpa combo is 40K range - would I benefit from using only it's dac part and going for a hpa in the 20-30K range? Or will it be useless until I go up to a high end range. Hope I am able to clarify.