Usher BE718 dmd

[square_wave]

Usher BE718 Diamond

The DMD series from Usher sounds very interesting. I guess these will be the only speakers using such drivers in the price range. I am very curious to know how the new tweeter sounds. The diamond cones are supposed to be smoothest of them all.

Has anyone heard them ?
Any reviews ?
Do these come with the differently voiced crossover for Asia like in the BE version ?
Apart from the tweeters, are there any other differences ?

 

[Dr.Bass]

I am surprised !!!
I always thought the 718 already has a nice tweeter, if there was anything that could/should be upgraded, its the mid bass driver. Though it looks like Scan-Speak, the sound is far from it. Logically I would think its a good addition for their higher end speaker in their line-up where the performance is taken to the next level as a whole. For the 718 its an overkill IMO (unless they do something about the mid-bass driver as well). Moreover, as much as I know, its not cheap. So the cost of the DMD 718 speaker can shoot up as much as 30% the current retail.

 

[reignofchaos]

The DMD announcement surprised me as well. The Beryllium tweeter already was very sweet sounding and it was incredibly fast. What they really needed was a mid bass driver that was equal to it. Infact they do have a Be mid range in their higher up models and maybe something similar is needed for the tiny dancer to improve its perfomance. Compared to the tweeter, the midbass driver is quite slow. The existing tweeter really is one of the best I've heard and it doesn't need an upgrade.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Usher BE718 Diamond

The DMD series from Usher sounds very interesting. I guess these will be the only speakers using such drivers in the price range. I am very curious to know how the new tweeter sounds. The diamond cones are supposed to be smoothest of them all.

Has anyone heard them ?
Any reviews ?
Do these come with the differently voiced crossover for Asia like in the BE version ?
Apart from the tweeters, are there any other differences ?

I read a brief review in the latest Absolute sound on the mini dancer (or the next higher) with the diamond tweeter. Apparently the plinth was also upgraded to a heavy metal design and the conclusion was that at $5000 it was excellent spkr. with the dmd tweeter performing very well. It was not a full review though, but more of a show report format. I also tend to agree with Dr. Bass and ROC, that the midbass driver of the be718 is its weak point.
Cheers
Sid

 

[square_wave]

Two owners of the 718 BE saying that the midbass driver is the weakest link. From what I understand, Dr Bass has heard ROCs 718 BE in his home as well.

I thought the mid bass driver is the equivalent of a very popular scanspeak driver used in several hi-end loudspeakers. I read somewhere that it measures better than the scanspeak one. The scanspeaks I have heard are fast as Hell ! In fact they are so fast that for most people it sounds as if there is lack of bass. They extend clean and fast without any overhang.
Am I missing something here ?

For me the BE 718 never sounded like a unified whole if you know what I mean. The ability to put forth a sound in which the entire spectrum sounds as part of the same cloth. I cant really say which driver is the culprit. If the Dmd tweeter integration achieves a seamless blend, then the speaker should sound very good.

Does the diamond tweeter upgrade mean that the new tweeter will work with the original crossover ?

Disclaimer: I have not heard the 718 setup in the perfect listening room.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Square_Wave, Going by the sound only, the Usher and the Scan-Speak mid bass drivers are worlds apart. They look very similar, they might even measure similar on paper but not sonically. I think, the Usher's design has no co-relation with Scanspeak's design. If it was so, it would have been published in open. Lets look beyond the looks

 

[sidvee]

Two owners of the 718 BE saying that the midbass driver is the weakest link. From what I understand, Dr Bass has heard ROCs 718 BE in his home as well.

I thought the mid bass driver is the equivalent of a very popular scanspeak driver used in several hi-end loudspeakers. I read somewhere that it measures better than the scanspeak one. The scanspeaks I have heard are fast as Hell ! In fact they are so fast that for most people it sounds as if there is lack of bass. They extend clean and fast without any overhang.
Am I missing something here ?

For me the BE 718 never sounded like a unified whole if you know what I mean. The ability to put forth a sound in which the entire spectrum sounds as part of the same cloth. I cant really say which driver is the culprit. If the Dmd tweeter integration achieves a seamless blend, then the speaker should sound very good.

Does the diamond tweeter upgrade mean that the new tweeter will work with the original crossover ?

Disclaimer: I have not heard the 718 setup in the perfect listening room.

My own take of the situation is that the 7" drivers need prodigous, clean power to be goosed well enough to integrate the entire presentation - a fact that I noticed as I moved up from 60 watts (tube push pull) to 150 watts (class D) to 150 watts (high current class a/ab), hence their reputation as hard to drive. I am now beginning to enjoy the presentation with the Odyssey Stratos and my next attempt is going to be 500 watts monoblock (class d).
cheers
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

My own take of the situation is that the 7" drivers need prodigous, clean power to be goosed well enough to integrate the entire presentation

Thats exactly opposite to the way the equivalent looking Scanspeak driver behaves. Its an extremely easy driver to handle and control. In fact a nice 30 watter would make it sing very well. Agreed that a higher powered amp may add little more control and speed which is anyway the case with most dynamic drivers. But as such they dont need/demand high powered amps to work well.
They sound clean, fast and tight with just about 30-40 watts in my experience.

 

[sidvee]

I dont believe the Be718's are using scanspeak drivers. Please see attached:
Scan Speak vs Usher
Cheers
Sid

 

[odyssey]

Usher does not use Scan speaker drivers, they make their own Usher drivers and thats what they use. It is true that they used to make drop in replacements for some of the more popular scan speak lines, however they have some "advancements" with their symm-motion, etc. In any case, if you look at the model numbers, you will find that they follow the scanspeaker drivers in terms of which ones they are compatible with. There are designers who use some of the Ushers instead of the scanspeaks and havent found much of a difference. Klaus of Odyssey will do this if you buy a base version of the Lorelei. So the same design with Symphonic Line can use a high end driver (forget the brand), or a scan speak, the Odyssey range can use the Scan speak or the Usher drivers. You cant really make out the difference between these two.
@Dr_bass - hearing a scan speak driver and hearing an usher driver (even though they can be used as replacements) is not at all the same when you hear them in different designs - you cant judge anything from that. The hard to drive does not come from the woofer alone, its based on the speaker design, after all if you look at 2 drivers and their characterisitcs measure the same, no reason why one should be harder to drive than the other. Instead, its based on the speaker design as a whole, the size of the inductor coils the amp sees, etc the mini-dancers use the same drivers but are easier to drive.
The relative "compression" that one hears in the Be-718 which is very minimal in the MD-1 version (with the same driver) is not a function of the driver but of the entire design.
As to why Usher went with a DMD, I think this is obvious, if you have followed some of the postings on the net that started about a year back. I also agree that improvements may have been possible to the Be-718 instead of going to the DMD line. However, keep in mind that worldwife the be-718 has been a runaway success, from the company point of view, is there a reason to change it...probably, probably not

@ROC the pricing on the DMD line will not be 30% more, it will be a challenge but we will keep the pricing to a very minimal price rise, lets see....watch this space in a few weeks.

cheers
Sridhar

 

[suri]

Thats exactly opposite to the way the equivalent looking Scanspeak driver behaves. Its an extremely easy driver to handle and control. In fact a nice 30 watter would make it sing very well. Agreed that a higher powered amp may add little more control and speed which is anyway the case with most dynamic drivers. But as such they dont need/demand high powered amps to work well.
They sound clean, fast and tight with just about 30-40 watts in my experience.

AHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!! - that is such a true statement!!!!!

( yes! - of course i am prejudiced - moktan - i checked the spelling)

and that is why they command their price ( as opposed to SB Acoustics )!!

 

[Dr.Bass]

@Dr_bass - hearing a scan speak driver and hearing an usher driver (even though they can be used as replacements) is not at all the same when you hear them in different designs - you cant judge anything from that. The hard to drive does not come from the woofer alone, its based on the speaker design, after all if you look at 2 drivers and their characterisitcs measure the same, no reason why one should be harder to drive than the other. Instead, its based on the speaker design as a whole, the size of the inductor coils the amp sees, etc the mini-dancers use the same drivers but are easier to drive.
The relative "compression" that one hears in the Be-718 which is very minimal in the MD-1 version (with the same driver) is not a function of the driver but of the entire design.

You could be right about this. May be I need to hear another speaker using Usher drivers to understand its real sound.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Finally did anyone listen to the DMD tweeters ?

 

[reignofchaos]

I did listen to the DMD Mini Dancer 1 speaker - more than the tweeter perfomance, the first thing that struck me was far better coherence and matching between the midrange and the tweeter. Seemingly Usher has worked on a better crossover too for these speakers.

 

[keith_correa]

Just saw Sridhar's old post and my 2 cents:
I completely agree with Sridhar. Take 2 identical drivers. Put them in different boxes with different x-over topologies and they WILL sound different - and so they should. IMO comparing the same drivers in 2 built up speakers of different designs is to put it strongly - stupid.
Usher makes ScanSpeak clones and VERY good [if not better] clones too. At lower cost. But for most, the "ScanSpeak" brand matters and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that for lesser money you can/will get equivalent/better performance.

 

[sidvee]

I spent a significant amount of time with the DMD 1 and in direct comparison to the be718 for high frequency performance I preferred the diamond tweeter over the Be version. It was way smoother and more relaxing and never seemed to sizzle or grate. I also noticed what ROC mentioned that there appeared to be better coherence between the drivers (not sure if this would hold good for the dmd718 though). The DMD1 is a heck of a nice speaker.
Cheers
Sid

 

[Asit]

Dr. Bass,

I have not heard the tiny dancers with the new tweeters, but I have heard the mini dancers in their new avatar at Kolkata. In fact, without naming the owner and the speakers, I have already given my impression in this forum in a thread related to CDPs where you also participated. The new tweeter does its job very nicely, perhaps even better than before (I put the 'perhaps' because I could not do a side by side comparison). But for me, the most noticeable thing was the improvement in the upper-bass, mids and upper mids indicating that work has been done there. The mids are now more natural than before, without a doubt in my mind (I have heard the old versions of both tiny and mini dancers quite extensively in Kolkata). Good recordings of vocals, especially female vocals would reveal that quite easily.

Regards.