• Hello and Welcome to HiFiVision.com - an online community for the home entertainment and tech enthusiasts!

    If you would like to ask a question, participate in a discussion and view attachments please Register yourself.

want to buy/ assemble a home theater system

Wharfedale Diamond 11 Series

anilsuri

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5
Points
0
Location
mumbai
hi, i have joined this forum today..nice to know that there is some community sorts going on! I looking to buy a home theater system..actually purely for audio purpose to begin with and maybe plug it to an LCD thereafter. My current room size is about 10 feet x 18 feet, but i do want some flexibility for a larger room, about 15 feet x 20 feet. My budget is about 70K on the outside. I am ok to buy a couple of front speakers and amp today if i can't get the rear and center ones within this budget. Have checked out Jamo speakers (80 rms output) with Yamaha amp and Bose systems..however open to other brands as well..any suggestions?
 

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,315
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Anil:

Your kind of query has been raised by a number of people. What surprises me is that your requirements and choice of products are not in sync.

1. You say you want a system purely for audio purposes. Why choose a HT system at all then? Unless you are ready to take on the expense of buying a system that can play SACD, and DVD-A (and pay the exorbitant prices of the media), a two channel system is the best for pure audio.

2. You can also 'plug' a two channel system into a LCD TV, and see movies in 2.0 set up. Though the home theater experience may not be good, your audio /music experience will continue to be good.

3. You want good audio and you are looking for a Bose kind of system? Sub/Sat system may provide a good environment for HT, but they fall short for good music reproduction. Remember good audio is always just stereo or 2.0. A sub/sat system cannot work without the sub, and that means your need a 2.1 at the minimum. The sub provides the sound stage, and the front speakers will usually fail to do their duty for a good stereo set up.

If you are clear about the following, we can go forward to suggest some brands/models for you.

1. Are you serious about music? Are you the type who will not only sit and enjoy music, but will also have the interest to discern subtle nuances in a song?

2. Contrary to One above, are you a casual listener to music, and a practitioner of what some people - as long as it sounds good - I am ok?

3. Do you understand the difference between a 5.1 HT system and pure stereo? If you do, what is that you are looking for?

4. Do you understand and appreciate the difference between music from an original CD, and an MP3? Do you understand the difference between playing an audio CD on a CDP and a universal DVD player? Or, again, are you one of those people for whom 'as long as it plays' is good enough?

5. What genres of music do you listen to? Do you have a collection of music with you?

I look forward to your replies.

Cheers
 
Upvote 0

moserw

New Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
3,288
Points
0
Location
Depends...
Wow Venkat you are up early!!!

anilsuri - I 2nd what Venkat has said and do stress stay away from Bose! Yamaha AVRs are good for movies but not so good for music. You can explore a 2.1 system instead of just a stereo/2.0 system. The woofer will help in the movie watching experience too, but will not rival a true 5.1/HT system though.
 
Upvote 0

marsilians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
2,642
Points
83
Location
117.192.87.109
Yamaha AVRs are good for movies but not so good for music.

I always have a big smile when I read statements like the above. Every brand has some wannabe's. That does not make all the models terrible.

Take a look at HTR 6180 or RXV 863 or 663 specs. I have heard all 3 of them and they beat most of their competition at the same price range.

...and no I dont work for Yamaha Corp.

As for B(H)ose....I would have seconded you....
 
Upvote 0

anilsuri

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5
Points
0
Location
mumbai
Hi Venkat, thanks for replying..to answer your response..

1. i want it currently for audio purpose..but in maybe a year or so..use it as a home theater as well..so in the end i want a good audio and video (if possible) experience, without having to spend for 2 different systems. If you suggest, its not a good idea to club the 2 needs...i am willing to consider.
2. i must complement your set of questions..i am not an expert on music, certainly not on the technology..but do like to listen to music in a good way...thereby have been thinking of a while to invest in a good set up..thus bringing me to this forum!
3. i am quite surprised on bose reviews on this forum..contrary to popular perception..its sound isn't going well with the "experts" here! however when i checked out their HT systems, they sound good to me!...so what am i missing...maybe i haven't been exposed to the best sound yet..

i look forward to your thoughts and suggestions..i stay in mumbai..so if you got suggestions on studios that i could visit to experience good sound, do share..cheers


Your kind of query has been raised by a number of people. What surprises me is that your requirements and choice of products are not in sync.

1. You say you want a system purely for audio purposes. Why choose a HT system at all then? Unless you are ready to take on the expense of buying a system that can play SACD, and DVD-A (and pay the exorbitant prices of the media), a two channel system is the best for pure audio.

2. You can also 'plug' a two channel system into a LCD TV, and see movies in 2.0 set up. Though the home theater experience may not be good, your audio /music experience will continue to be good.

3. You want good audio and you are looking for a Bose kind of system? Sub/Sat system may provide a good environment for HT, but they fall short for good music reproduction. Remember good audio is always just stereo or 2.0. A sub/sat system cannot work without the sub, and that means your need a 2.1 at the minimum. The sub provides the sound stage, and the front speakers will usually fail to do their duty for a good stereo set up.

If you are clear about the following, we can go forward to suggest some brands/models for you.

1. Are you serious about music? Are you the type who will not only sit and enjoy music, but will also have the interest to discern subtle nuances in a song?

2. Contrary to One above, are you a casual listener to music, and a practitioner of what some people - as long as it sounds good - I am ok?

3. Do you understand the difference between a 5.1 HT system and pure stereo? If you do, what is that you are looking for?

4. Do you understand and appreciate the difference between music from an original CD, and an MP3? Do you understand the difference between playing an audio CD on a CDP and a universal DVD player? Or, again, are you one of those people for whom 'as long as it plays' is good enough?

5. What genres of music do you listen to? Do you have a collection of music with you?

I look forward to your replies.

Cheers[/QUOTE]
 
Upvote 0

anilsuri

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5
Points
0
Location
mumbai
Hi Venkat, thanks for your thoughts..here's my response to some points you raised

1. i want it currently for audio purpose..but in maybe a year or so..use it as a home theater as well..so in the end i want a good audio and video (if possible) experience, without having to spend for 2 different systems. If you suggest, its not a good idea to club the 2 needs...i am willing to consider.
2. i must complement your set of questions..i am not an expert on music, certainly not on the technology..but do like to listen to music in a good way...thereby have been thinking of a while to invest in a good set up..thus bringing me to this forum! except for heavy metal, i listen to just about anything
3. i am quite surprised on bose reviews on this forum..contrary to popular perception..its sound isn't going well with the "experts" here! however when i checked out their HT systems, they sound good to me!...so what am i missing...maybe i haven't been exposed to the best sound yet..

i look forward to your thoughts and suggestions..i stay in mumbai..so if you got suggestions on studios that i could visit to experience good sound, do share..cheers
 
Upvote 0

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,315
Points
113
Location
Chennai
anilsuri said:
3. i am quite surprised on bose reviews on this forum..contrary to popular perception..its sound isn't going well with the "experts" here! however when i checked out their HT systems, they sound good to me!...so what am i missing...maybe i haven't been exposed to the best sound yet..

I have answered this question so many times. I must keep a text copy somewhere that I can cut and paste.

Here it goes again. A sub/sat system consists of very small speakers called satellites. These have a narrow frequency range and very small drivers. By themselves, these speakers cannot present a sound stage nor can they present deep base. For that you need the sub woofer. Now as I mentioned above, a pure stereo system does not utilise a sub. All the frequencies are sent to just two channels.

A sub/sat system may sound OK for a movies as movies utilise the Point 1 (in a 5.1 or a 7.1). This channel, called a LFE channel, carry all the deep bass sounds that are there in the movie. If you use the same system and play a 2 channel CD, the LFE channel will not work, and the satellites will struggle to deliver good sound.

Even in movies, the sub.satellites use very small speakers for dialogues. Now dialogues are very important in a movie and come from the center channel. Actually the center channel carry a major portion of the movie sound.

Next time you audition a sub/sat system ask the dealer to shut off the sub. He will most probably refuse, or say it cannot be done. Ask him to keep the volume of the sub at near zero. If he does that you will hear a completely different sound coming from the system.

OK. That is all my sub/sat bashing.

Now to your requirements. You are looking at a AVR plus speakers that sound good for music and movies. There are a number of AVRs that are available in the market. Some of the models you can look for (not in any order) are:

RECEIVERS
  1. Cambridge Audio's 540R (Cambridge Audio)
  2. Denon AVR-1909 (http://denonsingapore.com/documentation\AVR1909_E2_leaf_rev3.pdf)
  3. Yamaha RX-V663 (RX-V663)
  4. Onkyo TX-SR606 (Onkyo TX-SR606 - 7.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products)
  5. Marantz SR4003 (Marantz America | SR4003 * * NEW * * Dolby Digital EX/DTS ES Surround Receiver)

These are the best receivers available in the market for less than 50,000. I have personally heard the Yamaha 663 and it sounds very good for both movies and music. Another member, The Vortex, has the Marantz 4001, an earlier version of the Marantz 4003. He swears by the musicality of the system. A number of other members have the Onkyo 606 and are very happy with it. It has also received the best product award from What HiFi for products in it's price range.

I have auditioned the Denon 1909 a number of times, and have come away with lots of question marks, The dialogues were unclear and the music was not as good as Denon is famed for. The issues could be speakers, inter connects and a lot of other issues. I will like to reserve my comments until I hear it in an ideal environment.

The CA 540R comes from Cambridge Audio who have a reputation for good audio systems. It may a bit weak for movies, but will present all music with gusto, precision, and musicality.

SPEAKERS

To get the best of any of these AVRS, you must marry them with good speakers. Given you budget, I would suggest you look for good bookshelves, matching center, and a compatible sub woofer. Since you are ready to go in steps, all you need to buy immediately are two bookshelves and a sub. Some of the good and inexpensive bookshelves are:

  1. PSB Alpha B1. The Alphas are classic bookshelves that sound extremely good for their size. They have been praised by many magazines including the Stereophile. I have heard the Alpha's along with the Yamaha 663, and I was very happy with their sound. Read a recent review at PSB Alpha B1 Loudspeaker | AV Guide. The Alphas are available at around 15,000 a pair.
  2. Wharfedale 9.2. Slightly large speakers, the 9.2 again are award winners, and very popular amongst the members of this forum.
  3. Cambridge Audio S30. These are very inexpensive speakers, some 7000 a pair.
  4. Mission m33i
  5. Monitor Audio Bronze BR2
  6. Mordaunt Short 902i
  7. Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2
  8. Quad 11L2
  9. Tannoy Mercury F1 Custom

DVD Player

The last item you need is a good DVD Player. There are inexpesive models available from Samsung, Philips, and Pioneer.

Cheers
 
Upvote 0

anilsuri

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5
Points
0
Location
mumbai
Thanks a ton venkat...i am sure this will help me put together something good! hey one last thing..how is the service back ups for the brands you mentioned in India...i have faced issues with other electronic stuff that I got from outside India..that was either not covered under warranty or did not have service facility in the country.
cheers
 
Upvote 0

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,315
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Have you listened to s30's. Can you give a reivew of this? can this be used as hometheatre speakers with S50 center speaker.

I am sorry I have no personal experience with the CA speakers. You must listen to it yourself. Please audition it before taking any decision. I only mentioned it because it is made by CA, is very inexpensive, and has good reviews in the industry. I would not be too surprised if it actually made by someone else to CA's specification. BUT all this is pure speculation.

anilsuri said:
how is the service back ups for the brands you mentioned in India...i have faced issues with other electronic stuff that I got from outside India..

Many of us here have faced similar problems with products brought from outside India. Hopefully if you buy the product in India, you will get good service.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

anilsuri

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5
Points
0
Location
mumbai
folks..i checked out the following over the weekend..B&W 685 (48K), KEF iQ 9 (75K), Polk audio LSi9 (52K), Monitor 50 (20K). I found the B&W the best of all..though i heard with some high end amp. ..the shop does not have a denon/ yamaha etc to go with. All these I heard without a sub woofer as well. I am now inclined to go for the B&W 685 as front and just buy an amp now..later on i can add the center, sub and 2 other speakers (685 or 683..make them the front and put these 2 as rear). All prices are including tax and discounts that the shops are willing to offer. My questions to venkat and to the group..
1. is this a good strategy to go with? buy 2 front and amp today..and rest later..any pitfalls that i should look out for in this approach
2. which amp will go with 685? i hope the speakers won't disappoint me with a denon or any other amp that the group recommends
3. are the prices quoted fine..they all say that prices have gone up in last month due to dollar appreciation. B&W prices quoted by their own showroom in juhu, mumbai

cheers, anil
 
Upvote 0

marsilians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
2,642
Points
83
Location
117.192.87.109
folks..i checked out the following over the weekend..B&W 685 (48K), KEF iQ 9 (75K), Polk audio LSi9 (52K), Monitor 50 (20K). I found the B&W the best of all..though i heard with some high end amp. ..the shop does not have a denon/ yamaha etc to go with. All these I heard without a sub woofer as well. I am now inclined to go for the B&W 685 as front and just buy an amp now..later on i can add the center, sub and 2 other speakers (685 or 683..make them the front and put these 2 as rear). All prices are including tax and discounts that the shops are willing to offer. My questions to venkat and to the group..
1. is this a good strategy to go with? buy 2 front and amp today..and rest later..any pitfalls that i should look out for in this approach

Since these are bookshelves, I would squeeze in either a sub (1st choice) or a center as otherwise it would create what is called as a virtual center and on some systems I have seen this sounding a bit weird. If you have auditoined without a center and felt OK, then there should not be any worry.

Your next purchase should be center, sub, surrounds in that order.

2. which amp will go with 685? i hope the speakers won't disappoint me with a denon or any other amp that the group recommends

personally I would buy a decent mid line AVR such as a Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo or Pioneer. These speakers are pretty efficient to drive by one of these.
3. are the prices quoted fine..they all say that prices have gone up in last month due to dollar appreciation. B&W prices quoted by their own showroom in juhu, mumbai

cheers, anil

I would think that B&W are OK for the price/perfromance. The Polks would sound better in my view and would be a good fit for any of the AVRs. Again, my personal opinion is that B&W carries some hype around it that others might not. Also this range is made in China, so not much of a differentiator in build quality or dynamics compared others. The options I woudl look at
1. Kef (if your budget can afford)
2. Polk
3. B&W
4. Monitor
 
Upvote 0
Top