want to buy Turntable

[mpjavali]

Hello Everyone,
I am a complete newbie to the vinyl world and planning to start my journey with a turntable. What I get from various discussions on this forum is that vintage TT are better than new USB tyoes TT. Please recommend me some good stores in Bangalore where I can go and audition. Also please suggest some good brands/models in the range of 10 to 15K.

Thanks,
Mallik

 

[bhaskarcan]

Welcome to HiFiVision. You are in right place.

Few questions:

1.Do you have any previous experience with TT(i.e. during childhood, parent/relatives' setup)? - Buying a decent TT is relatively easy. But setting it up properly and matching it with your existing system is little difficult unless you have some experience of how the sound should be. And it's very easy to get discouraged if the TT is not properly setup.

2.What type music do you listen? Do you have collection of media already or going to start from scratch? -Getting records(specially Indian music) are becoming more and more difficult & expensive. The western music scene is better. New releases and re-issues are plentiful and easily available. Though comparatively expensive.

3.What is your present setup?- Assuming that that you are new entrant, TT needs a phono stage to bring the signal from cartridge upto line level. Hence if your amp doesn't have a phono input, you need to invest in same. There is an excellent DIY phono built in this forum(CNC). You can contact FM Sachu regarding this.

All said and done, IMHO any vintage Japanese TT(Technics, Pioneer, Akai, Sansui etc.) will be good enough as an entry level TT. Even our own deshi Direct drives like Sonodyne, Cosmic had some nice models. You can contact FM Shafic for advice regarding vintage TT.

Keep reading various threads in this forum. There are loads of very useful wirte-ups by very knowledgeable members in every page of HFV. Reading them will help you in this fantastic journey that you are going to start.

Enjoy the journey.

Regards,
Bhaskar

 

[reubensm]

Hello Everyone,
I am a complete newbie to the vinyl world and planning to start my journey with a turntable. What I get from various discussions on this forum is that vintage TT are better than new USB tyoes TT. Please recommend me some good stores in Bangalore where I can go and audition. Also please suggest some good brands/models in the range of 10 to 15K.

Thanks,
Mallik

Welcome to the world of vinyl. It would be helpful if you can tell us why you took the decision to enter the world of vinyl. This is important for a complete newbie because from my experience, I have noticed that absolute newbies are in it for 2 primary reasons namely:

1) there is a lot of debate doing the rounds that analog sound is way better than digital sound and vinyl records sound better than CDs

2) its a cool thing to own a turntable these daya as they are perceived to be pro-audiophile and expensive (also records are expensive) and also would give one bragging rights and acceptance as a serious Hi-Fi enthusiast

Honestly if your reason is one or both of the above, then you should take a closer look at your decision. With point 2, people end up investing in TTs and a few records, and once the enthusiasm cools off, the TT ends up gathering dust and comments like - "records are difficult to get in good condition, and difficult to maintain" will keep doing the rounds hyeah:

For point one, what forums dont often tell you is that in order to get your records to sound better than CDs, there are a lot of dependencies that have to be fulfilled (which require a decent investment as well). There's a lot written about this on our forum by very knowledgeable forum members. If point-1 is the consideration, then please try to meet up with a friend who has a vinyl collection and listens regularly, get to listen and after understanding all that it takes. Only after this should one get to the final decision.

 

[hemantwaghe]

If you are ok with shipping I can provide some good options from Mumbai

 

[Nag]

you can try Thorens , ProJect at Audio Planet Koramangala, Bangalore. Also, Music Hall at Absolute Phase ( Prithvi) near Safina Plaza .

Not knowing your budget, assuming you are looking at entry level . I suggest one should first get used to, pile up Vinyl along and once ready, go high end when ever

 

[hildebrand]

New ones are available at the places here in Bangalore.
There are some places where old ones are sold but they are unreliable. It is probably a better idea to buy from hemant or Shafic or Kuruvilla sir. I saw a philips TT in the for sale by owner section recently from a Bangalore based member for 3500/-. If you like it you can go for that to test the waters and go high end later if it suits you.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

New ones are available at the places here in Bangalore.
There are some places where old ones are sold but they are unreliable. It is probably a better idea to buy from hemant or Shafic or Kuruvilla sir. I saw a philips TT in the for sale by owner section recently from a Bangalore based member for 3500/-. If you like it you can go for that to test the waters and go high end later if it suits you.

At present, I have quite a few Turntables fully serviced for sale.

 

[reubensm]

At present, I have quite a few Turntables fully serviced for sale.

I've seen these and they are definitely a good buy.

 

[eddie_fox]

Hi OP!

Very sound advice above. If you have made up your mind, after all the considerations, to go for a TT, please do a lot of research and decide after that. All you have to do is basic secondary research (mainly online) and you will find tons of literature, advice, suggestions and reviews.Take your time and don't rush into anything. Following this, beware of relying too heavily on a single forum, even this one, and be cautious of remote buying, even if it from 'reliable, experienced' sellers on this forum.

I advice that based on my recent experience buying through this forum from a 'highly respected and reliable' expert. That it was disappointing, is an understatement. I briefly recount my experience for you -

I trusted this seller and bought an used Technics SL-D3. I did not even ask him for photos showing it's condition (which is my folly, I accept), nor did I haggle too much. I was happy to pay up as this was supposed to be a gift for my girlfriend and I needed one quickly. The price was a little above the fair price, as I found out later.

Anyway, I made the payment as agreed and received the TT (well packed and delivered personally, which was nice). It was only once I opened the box did I realise that I was a bit short-changed. The seller had mentioned that the cosmetic condition was OK, but it still was a shock to see a layer of dust on the whole TT (as you must know dust and TTs are mortal enemies) and it was rather worse for wear. But, it played alright.

However, the list of issues just grew: 1. The headshell was not original, 2. The counter-weight was not original and did not have markings (the seller had mentioned this, but not that it had no markings and thus I can not change the cart without a mini-weighing scale to set it), 3. a very basic AT cart with the TT which is worth much less than what he charged extra amount for (he also claimed, when I asked for which model the cart was, that he had no idea.... so much for 'expert' seller status). and finally the worst of the lot 4. the tone-arm lever was broken (which had skipped the seller's memory, as he claimed later). This meant that I could not skip tracks or place the arm where I liked on the record.

I have been pursuing the seller on all these points and have not had any concrete solutions, in fact, he has stopped responding to my messages here on the forum as well... so not much hope anyway. All in all, a very money-minded transaction, which left a sour after-taste.

So, though I am not brushing them all in the same cynical brush, I most certainly advice a sense of caution before walking into what could be a bad first experience. Be a little vary; all the camaraderie and bonhomie will disappear when it comes to selling, buying and profits. It is better if you can meet the seller, check the TT (maybe with an experienced friend) and deal directly, especially for your first purchase. Good luck!

P.s - There is a lot of discussion over vintage used TTs vs off-the-shelf newer models. Make an informed choice. I have been in the UK for a while now and brands like Rega and Project are not and can't be easily dismissed as is the trend here. Am just saying, do your research.

Finally, anyone wanting to know more about the seller I have mentioned can PM me. I don't want to vilify anyone publicly based on my personal experience, that is not my intention for this post.

 

[reignofchaos]

Please post the name. It will help potential new buyers avoid such a trap.

 

[shafic]

Hi OP!

Very sound advice above. If you have made up your mind, after all the considerations, to go for a TT, please do a lot of research and decide after that. All you have to do is basic secondary research (mainly online) and you will find tons of literature, advice, suggestions and reviews.Take your time and don't rush into anything. Following this, beware of relying too heavily on a single forum, even this one, and be cautious of remote buying, even if it from 'reliable, experienced' sellers on this forum.

I advice that based on my recent experience buying through this forum from a 'highly respected and reliable' expert. That it was disappointing, is an understatement. I briefly recount my experience for you -

I trusted this seller and bought an used Technics SL-D3. I did not even ask him for photos showing it's condition (which is my folly, I accept), nor did I haggle too much. I was happy to pay up as this was supposed to be a gift for my girlfriend and I needed one quickly. The price was a little above the fair price, as I found out later.

Anyway, I made the payment as agreed and received the TT (well packed and delivered personally, which was nice). It was only once I opened the box did I realise that I was a bit short-changed. The seller had mentioned that the cosmetic condition was OK, but it still was a shock to see a layer of dust on the whole TT (as you must know dust and TTs are mortal enemies) and it was rather worse for wear. But, it played alright.

However, the list of issues just grew: 1. The headshell was not original, 2. The counter-weight was not original and did not have markings (the seller had mentioned this, but not that it had no markings and thus I can not change the cart without a mini-weighing scale to set it), 3. a very basic AT cart with the TT which is worth much less than what he charged extra amount for (he also claimed, when I asked for which model the cart was, that he had no idea.... so much for 'expert' seller status). and finally the worst of the lot 4. the tone-arm lever was broken (which had skipped the seller's memory, as he claimed later). This meant that I could not skip tracks or place the arm where I liked on the record.

I have been pursuing the seller on all these points and have not had any concrete solutions, in fact, he has stopped responding to my messages here on the forum as well... so not much hope anyway. All in all, a very money-minded transaction, which left a sour after-taste.

So, though I am not brushing them all in the same cynical brush, I most certainly advice a sense of caution before walking into what could be a bad first experience. Be a little vary; all the camaraderie and bonhomie will disappear when it comes to selling, buying and profits. It is better if you can meet the seller, check the TT (maybe with an experienced friend) and deal directly, especially for your first purchase. Good luck!

P.s - There is a lot of discussion over vintage used TTs vs off-the-shelf newer models. Make an informed choice. I have been in the UK for a while now and brands like Rega and Project are not and can't be easily dismissed as is the trend here. Am just saying, do your research.

Finally, anyone wanting to know more about the seller I have mentioned can PM me. I don't want to vilify anyone publicly based on my personal experience, that is not my intention for this post.

Hi,

It is indeed sad to know your bad experience. You expect better from fellow FMs.

 

[prepress]

Yes, you should disclose his name so that the buyer think before buying anything from him. It would be a lesson for that seller too who didn't assist, didn't keep transparency in business. And not responding to calls or SMS shows it is something like cheating somebody or fraud.

 

[eddie_fox]

Yes, you should disclose his name so that the buyer think before buying anything from him. It would be a lesson for that seller too who didn't assist, didn't kept transparency in business. And not responding to calls or SMS shows it is something like cheating somebody or fraud.

Hi,

My intention was not to create a furore nor to tarnish anyone's reputation based on my personal experience. It could well be that this was a one-off case, but still, my experience stands testimony for what happened.

Must add, the seller had, recently, sent me a PM saying he has an original technics head-shell, but has since not responded to my messages with my address nor to a follow-up message asking if he has any intention of sending me the head-shell at all. (The one regret I have is that I have not checked that tick-box for 'save sent messages' in my PM and hence don't have the records of my sent messages.). Anywho, no replacement head-shell in sight yet...

Finally, I am responding to anyone who wishes to know via PMs about the identity of the seller. The seller knows who he is and can refute my version if he so wishes and then it will all be out in the open.

Ta!

 

[reubensm]

Very sound advice above. If you have made up your mind, after all the considerations, to go for a TT, please do a lot of research and decide after that. All you have to do is basic secondary research (mainly online) and you will find tons of literature, advice, suggestions and reviews.Take your time and don't rush into anything. Following this, beware of relying too heavily on a single forum, even this one, and be cautious of remote buying, even if it from 'reliable, experienced' sellers on this forum.

When reading reviews online on forums, check the following:

1) when the reviewer joined the forum
2) the number of posts he or she's made over time
3) try reading some posts at random to understand the approach of the reviewer, is he/she always taking the critic approach or are the views broad and objective

On our forum for example, there are many old and respected forum members who share information readily. Normally such information is usually available at a price from consultants. Having said that, all posts are personal opinions, especially those that describe the quality of sound, and equipment sounding fantastic. The reader is at liberty to frame his/her own opinion, take the advice or leave it. The person who posts cannot be held responsible for the advice given as its his/her personal opinion only. The reader must be aware and acknowledge this aspect. The moderators are there for a purpose and if they feel some information is incorrect, mis-leading or defamatory, they will censor the post.

Having said that, I've been on some other forums but found this one to be the best, especially for turntables in an Indian context. The intention of most of the guys in the Phono Turntables section is to encourage others to experience turntables and records, but only if they are really interested.

 

[reubensm]

P.s - There is a lot of discussion over vintage used TTs vs off-the-shelf newer models. Make an informed choice. I have been in the UK for a while now and brands like Rega and Project are not and can't be easily dismissed as is the trend here. Am just saying, do your research.

Buying new or vintage is the buyer's choice. When I got married, I had a "New" plasticy turntable. My wife, who had never seen a turntable in her life, before fell in love with the way it worked. When my Technics SL3200 turntable arrived later on, even she noticed the difference in the sound quality and was in favour of me selling off the plasticy turntable (did not sell it but gave it to my brother to use). The build quality of vintage turntables are superb. The design elements were lavish as cost was not much of a concern. To produce the same quality with the same design elements, manufacturers today would have to charge a whole lot more which would make little commercial sense. Having said this, there are broadly 3 types of vintage turntables that are very popular and doing the rounds:

1) The Japanese Direct Drives (Technics, Sony, Akai, JVC, etc)
2) The Eurpoean Idlers (Garrards, Lencos, Thorens, etc)
3) The Eurpoean and American Beauties (eg: LP12, Thorens TD135, AR XA, etc)

The European idlers are usually built like tanks and can be restored with some love and care, whatever be the condition that you accquire them in. Build quality is superb and they would last multiple life-times giving you the same level of outstanding performance with minimal maintenance

The Japanese Direct Drives have to be purchased in good mechanical condition (from users who have used and maintained them carefully). If the electronics of these starts giving trouble, it will be quite a challenge to repair)

The European and American Beauties are very desirable but should be purchased only from owners who know their turntables and take care of them. These tend to be very precise and delicate and have to be listened to, before purchase.

I have experienced category 1 and category 2 and I must say, these vintage turntables are definitely better than the modern stuff.

 

[reubensm]

I trusted this seller and bought an used Technics SL-D3. I did not even ask him for photos showing it's condition (which is my folly, I accept), nor did I haggle too much. I was happy to pay up as this was supposed to be a gift for my girlfriend and I needed one quickly. The price was a little above the fair price, as I found out later.

Anyway, I made the payment as agreed and received the TT (well packed and delivered personally, which was nice). It was only once I opened the box did I realise that I was a bit short-changed. The seller had mentioned that the cosmetic condition was OK, but it still was a shock to see a layer of dust on the whole TT (as you must know dust and TTs are mortal enemies) and it was rather worse for wear. But, it played alright.

I think you should give it some time and have an open conversation with the seller. If you trust the seller so much, that you don't even ask for photos, I am sure both of you would be in a postion to have an open discussion on the subject. After all your attempts to get the issue resolved are complete with no success, only then should you caution others. I have bought stuff on the forum from longstanding forum membeer and have had a good experience every single time. Yes, on one occassion, I was told that the equipment I was buying "was in the very same condition, the seller got it from another forum member" and I noticed that it was all tampered with and fitted with non-OEM parts. However the item worked and I was happy with it. On another occassion, I was genuinely cheated by a "New" forum member. I gave it a month and had open discussions with him. Only when he made it very clear that he intended to cheat me, did I write about it on the forum. However due to my knowledge and understanding of turntables, I was able to covert this horrible start into a blissful experience. You can read more about it here: http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/45138-my-garrard-rc210-restoration-tragedy-ecstasy.html

At the very end, you've mentioned that the player played all right. Yes, that is expected with Technics DDs. They almost never fail.

 

[reubensm]

1. The headshell was not original, 2. The counter-weight was not original and did not have markings (the seller had mentioned this, but not that it had no markings and thus I can not change the cart without a mini-weighing scale to set it), 3. a very basic AT cart with the TT which is worth much less than what he charged extra amount for (he also claimed, when I asked for which model the cart was, that he had no idea.... so much for 'expert' seller status). and finally the worst of the lot 4. the tone-arm lever was broken (which had skipped the seller's memory, as he claimed later). This meant that I could not skip tracks or place the arm where I liked on the record. [/I]

issue-1: Technics TTs can take all standard headshells, so this is not a big issue. Some non-Technics headshells are actually better than the stock Technics headshells. However if you want an original headshell, you can easily get one, probably one of the forum members will have a spare one and can give it to you

issue-2: A counter weight without markings will be difficult to use. I have come across some high end tonearms without markings but the user would need to keep a weighing device to measure the tracking force. The positive is that this process is more accurate than just going by the markings on the counter weight but the flip side is that its quite tedious to adjust every single time

issue-3: AT cartridges are not standard Technics fixtures. The original carts of Technics TTs were honestly junk and worth nothing. They are usually given away free of cost. I would assume that the seller procured the Audio Technica cart separately. It is common for sellers to charge additionally if supplying TTs with Audio Technica or Shure carts as these are not standard OEM carts for most turntable brands. You've not mentioned the model or price so can't really comment if it was expensive or not.

issue-4: It is possible that this could have happened during Transit. The tonearm lift lever of all Technics manual turntables is generally its weakest part. These are the only parts of Technics direct drives that I'm come across giving trouble. The extent of the damage needs to be evaluated. If nothing is physically broken, I'm sure it can be fixed and re-calibrated.

 

[reubensm]

Be a little vary; all the camaraderie and bonhomie will disappear when it comes to selling, buying and profits. It is better if you can meet the seller, check the TT (maybe with an experienced friend) and deal directly, especially for your first purchase. Good luck!

Well, this is a personal opinion, but my personal opinion is that the camaraderie we share on this forum is very strong and built on trust. I have known and dealt with quite a few forum members and every single experience was great (execept the one with a "New" forum member on the Garrard RC210). I have made some fantastic friendships through the forum.

Moderators: sorry for the multiple posts, I could not use the Multiple Reply option for some reason, maybe its something to do with my browser.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi OP!

Very sound advice above. If you have made up your mind, after all the considerations, to go for a TT, please do a lot of research and decide after that. All you have to do is basic secondary research (mainly online) and you will find tons of literature, advice, suggestions and reviews.Take your time and don't rush into anything. Following this, beware of relying too heavily on a single forum, even this one, and be cautious of remote buying, even if it from 'reliable, experienced' sellers on this forum.

I advice that based on my recent experience buying through this forum from a 'highly respected and reliable' expert. That it was disappointing, is an understatement. I briefly recount my experience for you -

I trusted this seller and bought an used Technics SL-D3. I did not even ask him for photos showing it's condition (which is my folly, I accept), nor did I haggle too much. I was happy to pay up as this was supposed to be a gift for my girlfriend and I needed one quickly. The price was a little above the fair price, as I found out later.

Anyway, I made the payment as agreed and received the TT (well packed and delivered personally, which was nice). It was only once I opened the box did I realise that I was a bit short-changed. The seller had mentioned that the cosmetic condition was OK, but it still was a shock to see a layer of dust on the whole TT (as you must know dust and TTs are mortal enemies) and it was rather worse for wear. But, it played alright.

However, the list of issues just grew: 1. The headshell was not original, 2. The counter-weight was not original and did not have markings (the seller had mentioned this, but not that it had no markings and thus I can not change the cart without a mini-weighing scale to set it), 3. a very basic AT cart with the TT which is worth much less than what he charged extra amount for (he also claimed, when I asked for which model the cart was, that he had no idea.... so much for 'expert' seller status). and finally the worst of the lot 4. the tone-arm lever was broken (which had skipped the seller's memory, as he claimed later). This meant that I could not skip tracks or place the arm where I liked on the record.

I have been pursuing the seller on all these points and have not had any concrete solutions, in fact, he has stopped responding to my messages here on the forum as well... so not much hope anyway. All in all, a very money-minded transaction, which left a sour after-taste.

So, though I am not brushing them all in the same cynical brush, I most certainly advice a sense of caution before walking into what could be a bad first experience. Be a little vary; all the camaraderie and bonhomie will disappear when it comes to selling, buying and profits. It is better if you can meet the seller, check the TT (maybe with an experienced friend) and deal directly, especially for your first purchase. Good luck!

P.s - There is a lot of discussion over vintage used TTs vs off-the-shelf newer models. Make an informed choice. I have been in the UK for a while now and brands like Rega and Project are not and can't be easily dismissed as is the trend here. Am just saying, do your research.

Finally, anyone wanting to know more about the seller I have mentioned can PM me. I don't want to vilify anyone publicly based on my personal experience, that is not my intention for this post.

I also am in the favor of the FM being named.

There are a lot of people who are (mis)using the trustworthy nature of this forum to engage in utterly selfish transactions. Being selfish by itself is not bad, unless it is done at the cost of violating the norms and at another person's cost.

Since the forum witnesses a lot of new people joining everyday, it is indeed getting harder than ever before to trust people here. I have been conned too, both as a buyer and as a seller. My own fault actually. I tend to trust people rather easily.

I also have had bad experiences here. I also chose to not make bones about it, in the larger interest of forum. But I guess it's the time we openly discuss our transaction experiences here, good or bad whatever it is.

 

[eddie_fox]

When reading reviews online on forums, check the following:

1) when the reviewer joined the forum
2) the number of posts he or she's made over time
3) try reading some posts at random to understand the approach of the reviewer, is he/she always taking the critic approach or are the views broad and objective

On our forum for example, there are many old and respected forum members who share information readily. Normally such information is usually available at a price from consultants. Having said that, all posts are personal opinions, especially those that describe the quality of sound, and equipment sounding fantastic. The reader is at liberty to frame his/her own opinion, take the advice or leave it. The person who posts cannot be held responsible for the advice given as its his/her personal opinion only. The reader must be aware and acknowledge this aspect. The moderators are there for a purpose and if they feel some information is incorrect, mis-leading or defamatory, they will censor the post.

Having said that, I've been on some other forums but found this one to be the best, especially for turntables in an Indian context. The intention of most of the guys in the Phono Turntables section is to encourage others to experience turntables and records, but only if they are really interested.

I agree with you.