What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier?

[sound_cycle]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

So the Marantz CD players like 5005 and 6005 have inbuilt DAC and there is absolutely no need to buy another dedicated DAC??

Similarly if I want to play HIRES audio go with 8005 and no need of DAC as well?

Wrong. If you want to play *only CD* [or file music in WAV, AAC, WMA and MP3 format on USB] then the CD 6005 will be fine. It does not seem to support FLAC and you might find that limiting in the future.

The SA 8005 has two more tricks. It can play hi-res file audio from say your computer through its rear USB port and also optical/ coax digital. It can play SACD.

It is probably the way to go (from your list of choices), at least in the short term since it can also function as an external DAC

The "absolutely no need to buy another dedicated DAC" has no easy answer. There are better DACs out there, or cheaper ones which are just as good. You may or may not be happy with the sound a few days/ months down the line (I was not with the PM6005, which is not to say that the sound is bad).

If I was spending my money I would absolutely most certainly not go this route and I would put my money on an external DAC - IMHO the DAC is the biggest thing after your room and your speakers in SQ. And probably the first upgraditis itch to scratch.

ciao
gr

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

if you buy
SA 8005

then that cd player has an excellent built in DAC that will pretty much kill any entry level dacs and probably even a couple mid level ones

if the above player also has a digital input
which you can connect to your pc etc

then you dont need a dac at all


THIS is if you are considering buying a cd player at all

if you are not buying a cd player
and you are goind to play music only through a PC source then buy a dac

otherwise if you want to play CDs
then the above cd player is really good with a really good dac as well

This is really getting interesting. From a technical standpoint the CD players 5005 or 6005 converts digital to analog.

Dac also does the sAme. So how can you connect the analog out of cd player to Dac then, if Im not happy with the dac in CD player?

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Wrong. If you want to play *only CD* [or file music in WAV, AAC, WMA and MP3 format on USB] then the CD 6005 will be fine. It does not seem to support FLAC and you might find that limiting in the future.

The SA 8005 has two more tricks. It can play hi-res file audio from say your computer through its rear USB port and also optical/ coax digital. It can play SACD.

It is probably the way to go, at least in the short term (from your list of choices) since it can also function as an external DAC

The "absolutely no need to buy another dedicated DAC" has no easy answer. There are better DACs out there, or cheaper ones which are just as good. You may or may not be happy with the sound in a few days/ months (I was not with the PM6005).

If I was spending my money I would absolutely most certainly not go this route and I would put my money on an external DAC - IMHO the DAC is the biggest thing after your room and your speakers in SQ.

ciao
gr

In simple terms can DAC take an already converted analog signal (from digital cd ) and make it even better?

 

[sound_cycle]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

In simple terms can DAC take an already converted analog signal (from digital cd ) and make it even better?

NO !

A DAC converts digitally stored audio information into analogue signals.

All DACs are not equal. You can buy one for say 2,000 INR or a Yggdrassil for $2000 (and there are others even more expensive). Even more importantly, they also do not all sound the same. (Therefore I said you might not like the sound and want to upgrade a few months down the line).

No DAC can take a bad signal and make it "better". The goal is to faithfully reproduce what is there.

ciao
gr

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

NO !

A DAC converts digitally stored audio information into analogue signals.

All DACs are not equal. You can buy one for say 2,000 INR or a Yggdrassil for $2000 (and there are others even more expensive). Even more importantly, they also do not all sound the same. (Therefore I said you might not like the sound and want to upgrade a few months down the line).

No DAC can take a bad signal and make it "better". The goal is to faithfully reproduce what is there.

ciao
gr

Then how can the output of cd player is connected to Dac. This what im asking from the beginning.

In a hifi setup of cd player, dac , integrated amplifier and speaker where does DAC fits in to make things better?

 

[sound_cycle]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Then how can the output of cd player is connected to Dac. This what im asking from the beginning.

In a hifi setup of cd player, dac , integrated amplifier and speaker where does DAC fits in to make things better?

from post 17

A possible chain (such as I have) looks like this Music file (it may be on cd/flash drive/ hard disk/ internet) ----> something which reads it and sends it a/k/a transport (a windows computer/ media player WDTVlive ) ----> to a DAC which converts those digital bits that represent sound into an analog output (Schiit Bifrost) ---> amplifier which umm amplifies it ---> speakers

The DAC can be external (a separate dabba with its own powersource etc) or internal (within the CDplayer/ computer or in the case of the DAC integrated amplifier, within the dabba that houses the amplifier) but without it you cannot listen to music on files.

Please define better. I am trying to understand what is it that you are actually seeking.

ciao
gr

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

from post 17



Please define better. I am trying to understand what is it that you are actually seeking.

ciao
gr

Oops I missed it. Thanks a lot. This makes things a lot clearer.

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

from post 17



Please define better. I am trying to understand what is it that you are actually seeking.

ciao
gr

One more thing, can a DAC take input from MP3 player?

 

[sound_cycle]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

One more thing, can a DAC take input from MP3 player?

My interest in DACs was limited to their optical inputs and not USB so I am not sure. I have no idea about the portable hi res players either

It is possible that the USB DACs might (I have read of support for iphones and the like).

While we wait for a knowledgeable FM to chip in, maybe you should search the 'net/ hfv for digital outputs from portable media players or something.

ciao
gr

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Thanks sound_cycle. Will read more about this. Thanks a lot for clearing things.

 

[Subha15011976]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Hi Vinay.. Then I check the Marantz SA8005 manual. It can play 192 Khz, 24 bit HIRES cds.

If that is the case what is the use of DAC?(in terms of CD and mp3)

If you want to play HiRes CD's (192/24 or 96/24) then it is better for you to go with a seperate SACD player and to decode SACD you need a DSD DAC. No PCM DAC can decode SACD.

So the order of your music gear should be like this --

SACD Player > DSD DAC > Intregated Pre-Power Amp > Speaker.
Don't make it complicated with all-in-one gear.

Cheer.

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

If you want to play HiRes CD's (192/24 or 96/24) then it is better for you to go with a seperate SACD player and to decode SACD you need a DSD DAC. No PCM DAC can decode SACD.

So the order of your music gear should be like this --

SACD Player > DSD DAC > Intregated Pre-Power Amp > Speaker.
Don't make it complicated with all-in-one gear.

Cheer.

What is SACD format? Can inbuilt DAC in marantz 8500 decode 192khz, 24 bit audio?

I again confused as you are saying to connect CD player to DAC. DAC takes the digital signal and converts to analogue. But the outpput of CD player is analogue . Then how can we connect a CD player to DAC?

 

[sound_cycle]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

I again confused as you are saying to connect CD player to DAC. DAC takes the digital signal and converts to analogue. But the outpput of CD player is analogue . Then how can we connect a CD player to DAC?

Note the digital outputs - there are two of them.

You would use a optical or a coaxial cable to connect this output to your DAC

ciao
gr

 

[sivasarjun]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

If you feel the external dac is better than the built in dac in the CD player, you can take the digital out from the cd player to the external dac.Now the conversion will be done by the external DAC.

 

[jls001]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

What is SACD format? Can inbuilt DAC in marantz 8500 decode 192khz, 24 bit audio?

I again confused as you are saying to connect CD player to DAC. DAC takes the digital signal and converts to analogue. But the outpput of CD player is analogue . Then how can we connect a CD player to DAC?

CD format is also called Redbook format, and is defined by sampling rate of 44.1 kHz and bit depth of 16 bits. SACD is different from Redbook CD format. Its sampling rate is 64 times of the CD sampling rate, while it uses 1 bit encoding. DSD file format supports even higher rates. A Redbook CD player will NOT play SACD discs. But most SACD players will support and play regular CD format, besides the two-channel layer of SACD and perhaps the multi channel layer of SACD if the player supports multi channel output. So SACD discs have three different layers, namely, CD layer, SACD two channel layer, and SACD multi channel layer.

To come to your specific question whether Marantz 8500 will decode 192/24, please read the use manual or spec sheet. I have no experience with this equipment so cannot tell you off hand.

So a CD player or SACD player will usually give analog audio output, but as sound_cycle has shown in the picture, many CD players have digital output. This digital output can be fed to an external DAC. In this scenario, the digital signal from CD player will bypass the internal DAC of the CD player. In this case the CD player acts a transport. Every CD player has a DAC inside it to be able to give an analog output.

Regarding your previous questions, the line between CD players, DACs and preamp have been blurred by some devices. You will now find many CD players having built in DAC that can accept digital signal from an external source like another CD player, media player, or computer. In this instance, the CD player, media player or computer is called a transport.

Some CD players also have in built preamplifier. It can accept analog line level inputs from other sources like tuner, phono preamplifier, etc, and act as source selector and volume controller.

And then there are now amplifiers which have in built DAC.

Coming to DACs, there are various types in terms of what audio formats they support. Most DACs will do PCM 24/96. Most currently made ones will support PCM 24/192. Some will support DSD (DSD is not the same as SACD). Some rare few will support DSD 128 or 256. In terms of technology, there are delta sigma DACs and resistor ladder DACs. Most commercially available DACs use delta sigma DAC chips. In terms of interfaces, the bulk of today's developmental effort is focused on bettering the USB interface as USB interface is available on every laptop or desktop computer. Many audio purists still prefer the electrical coaxial SPDIF interface but this usually needs a sound card to be able implement it. So it's not really suited to laptop users. An alternative is to use USB to SPDIF converter, but that's almost as complicated as the DAC itself. And then there's the additional, non trivial cost of this converter.

Hope this clarifies some of your doubts.

 

[moktan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Something interesting here Vinnie Rossi - LIO Modular Audio System

 

[navarannan]

Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Thanks jls001 and sound_cycle