What is the right approach for room treatment in high end audio ?

[Hari Iyer]

I built a new OB speaker couple of days ago and after listening to them in my room, i find no requirement for any room treatment currently. The OB speaker typically does not have much of room contributing to the overall sound stage. This may be because of the dipole polar pattern for the lows, mids and the highs with a perfect "8" pattern polar response.

In a box speaker (Sealed / Vented/ TL) the polar response is mono-pole for mids and highs and diople only for the low-end depending upon the baffle size. These speakers have more than 50% of the contribution factor from the room and hence speaker placement and the right treatment becomes crucial for a proper balance.

In OB speaker too, placement is crucial, only difference is that you dont require any much room treatment to get the right sound. An OB needs atleast 4 to 6 feet of uncluttered space behind the drivers for smooth dispersion of the lows and mids. In my room, i have done a golden ratio placement of 1:1.6 (front to rear). The distance between the front wall and the speakers are also same. The distance between the left and right speakers is 3.2 times the distance between front wall and speakers. This gave me minimum resonance effect and zero booming of the low end. Also stereo separation and center imaging and sound stage are quite good.

I would suggest, before investing on too many treatment material, try the golden ratio placement if your room permits and later discover what treatments will be required.

My 2 paise.

 

[sound_cycle]

Is there a place where one can buy these panels absorption/traps/diffusers? In Bangalore esp.?

https://www.auralexchange.com/product-category/acoustic-consultant/

 

[Hari Iyer]

IME, the maximum difference you can do to your listening setup is changing the speakers. Period.

 

[jls001]

IME, the maximum difference you can do to your listening setup is changing the speakers. Period.

Changing speakers is not room treatment

 

[Hari Iyer]

Yes

Changing speakers is not room treatment

I know. But it's more effective than room treatment IME.

 

[square_wave]

Yes

I know. But it's more effective than room treatment IME.

My experience has been very different. A mid-level speaker setup right usually sounds way more enjoyable than a high end speaker setup wrong.

Also, clever room treatment is only one part of the puzzle. Fine tuning the placement, isolation / coupling, adequate room size for the speaker are all part of the exercise.

But I agree that a good speaker is better than a bad speaker. In any room.

 

[Hari Iyer]

In my DIY pursuit, i have had the opportunity of using many speakers in my room. Everything else remaining the same, the change of speakers have had the maximum influence in the sound stage and realism. I have tried various placement, treatment etc. but nothing mattered more than the change of speakers in my room.

 

[square_wave]

In my DIY pursuit, i have had the opportunity of using many speakers in my room. Everything else remaining the same, the change of speakers have had the maximum influence in the sound stage and realism. I have tried various placement, treatment etc. but nothing mattered more than the change of speakers in my room.

This should pretty much reflect the experience for everyone in the hobby when they upgrade. Once you have fine tuned your speaker setup for your room, if you change the speaker, naturally the new and better one will sound better.

I may be wrong but I think you are getting confused with the purpose of the thread. It is about improving speaker setup. Room treatment is one factor and the thread is about that.

To give you a better perspective, lets say your current speaker setup / acoustics ( hence results ) is bad due to various circumstances but the speakers are decent enough and you bought them because they sounded fantastic at the dealer setup or at your friend's house. Will you upgrade your speakers or work on the setup ?

 

[Hari Iyer]

This should pretty much reflect the experience for everyone in the hobby when they upgrade. Once you have fine tuned your speaker setup for your room, if you change the speaker, naturally the new and better one will sound better.

I may be wrong but I think you are getting confused with the purpose of the thread. It is about improving speaker setup. Room treatment is one factor and the thread is about that.

To give you a better perspective, lets say your current speaker setup / acoustics ( hence results ) is bad due to various circumstances but the speakers are decent enough and you bought them because they sounded fantastic at the dealer setup or at your friend's house. Will you upgrade your speakers or work on the setup ?

If budget permits, i will change the speaker as for me they give me more benefit than room tweaks (which can be very expensive and ugly). Room tweaks can be very tricky and unless you actually know what you are doing it will be adding more issues than solving them. In my current setup, i have done a golden ratio setup for my speakers in my room, and noticed that this placement offered me minimum resonant sound in the room. Also my speakers being OB, the contribution of the room to the sound stage is very minimal.

 

[square_wave]

If budget permits, i will change the speaker as for me they give me more benefit than room tweaks (which can be very expensive and ugly). Room tweaks can be very tricky and unless you actually know what you are doing it will be adding more issues than solving them. In my current setup, i have done a golden ratio setup for my speakers in my room, and noticed that this placement offered me minimum resonant sound in the room. Also my speakers being OB, the contribution of the room to the sound stage is very minimal.

Cool. This means you have arrived at your max tweak point with regards to room treatment as well as speaker setup. Therefore a speaker change makes sense if the current speaker does not satisfy you.

 

[spirovious]

Few videos added here(post 25) -
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/post-diy-technical-av-videos-here.48463/page-2

 

[nosortf]

Squarewave has brought for an important point, room treatment. Has anybody visited audio shows where the bass is not booming and fast, considering bad hotel room acoustics? If you have, simply hire the person who has done this in a show and solve the problem. Guess work is of no help.

 

[Nikhil]

Here is one project from PS Audio that was blogged by Paul McGowan
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201365a-video-journey-into-ps-audios-new-music-listening-room/

Lot's of interesting info in there on what goes on in setting up a high end audio room.



.

 

[square_wave]

Website: https://www.kiiaudio.com/for_home.php

Where can I buy that diffuser which you see behind the table ? Anyone knows anything about how much this will cost ?

 

[square_wave]

What is the best way to treat the wall behind the listener if the wall is less than 2 feet away ? Diffuser, Absorber or a mix ?

 

[sidvee]

Where can I buy that diffuser which you see behind the table ? Anyone knows anything about how much this will cost ?

That looks like a vicoustic skyline type diffuser (I think they call it multifuser) in polystyrene. In Hyderabad Vectors carries them (i have seen black version in their showroom). I would guess pricing around 15-18k for a 2' x 2' panel (just an estimate, you need to call them to get a firm price). I bought 4 vicoustic wavewood diffusers from them a couple of years ago.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[mpw]

That looks like a vicoustic skyline type diffuser (I think they call it multifuser) in polystyrene. In Hyderabad Vectors carries them (i have seen black version in their showroom). I would guess pricing around 15-18k for a 2' x 2' panel (just an estimate, you need to call them to get a firm price). I bought 4 vicoustic wavewood diffusers from them a couple of years ago.
Cheers,
Sid

Are these required behind the front Speakers on every wall ??

A 6 ft by 10 ft will mean 15 pcs and that will cost rs 2.7 lac !

 

[sidvee]

Are these required behind the front Speakers on every wall ??

AFAIK, there is no hard and fast rule. Wall behind speakers, behind listening seat (provided you are atleast 8' away from them), ceiling first reflection etc are recommended. Compared to a broadband absorber these will not deaden the room as much.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[liverpool_for_life]

What is the best way to treat the wall behind the listener if the wall is less than 2 feet away ? Diffuser, Absorber or a mix ?

My understanding is that'd be too close to perceive the benefits of diffusion. I'd go with absorption.

 

[square_wave]

I have moved this discussion to this thread.


.