What makes a system sound good at low volumes?

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Hi,

I suggest there are two main factors that influence the detail and balance that we hear:
1. Our hearing ability - this depends on our age, ambient noise, attention level, etc. I may need a higher volume to hear al the nuances in the music as compared to a younger person.
2. The speakers - the construction of the speakers will affect the ability of the driver cones to move back and forth freely. How much power is needed to drive them, what is their sensitivity? I have found that I need to play at fairly high volumes to hear full detail from my Spendors, whereas another pair of smaller bookshelves that I have in the bedroom need much lower volume.

Balanced attenuation would mean loss of dynamics at lower volumes.

Regards
 
Hi,

I suggest there are two main factors that influence the detail and balance that we hear:
1. Our hearing ability - this depends on our age, ambient noise, attention level, etc. I may need a higher volume to hear al the nuances in the music as compared to a younger person.

2. The speakers - the construction of the speakers will affect the ability of the driver cones to move back and forth freely. How much power is needed to drive them, what is their sensitivity? I have found that I need to play at fairly high volumes to hear full detail from my Spendors, whereas another pair of smaller bookshelves that I have in the bedroom need much lower volume.

Balanced attenuation would mean loss of dynamics at lower volumes.

Regards

Thanks. It should help that I have BS that are 88 dB sensitivity. I guess beyond sensitivity it’d also a a function of the quality and material of the driver cone? If so, which materials give better low volume performance?

Also, why do you say that balanced attenuation would mean loss of dynamics? By balanced attenuation I only meant that the amplitude on each frequency comes down by the same gain ratio as the volume is reduced.
 
Thanks. It should help that I have BS that are 88 dB sensitivity. I guess beyond sensitivity it’d also a a function of the quality and material of the driver cone? If so, which materials give better low volume performance?

Also, why do you say that balanced attenuation would mean loss of dynamics? By balanced attenuation I only meant that the amplitude on each frequency comes down by the same gain ratio as the volume is reduced.

I do not know much about cone materials but there's also a fair bit of electronics involved, like in servo controlled bass drivers.

On 'balanced attenuation' I misunderstood. I meant adjusted attenuation. if the amplitude of any frequency is increased when overall volume is reduced, I will hear less differentiation between loud and soft passages.

I do believe that the single most important component that determines what makes a system sound good at low volumes is the speaker design. That said, a speaker that does not reproduce all frequencies at low volumes may outperform all others at higher volumes.
 
Been experimenting with this phenomenon.

The biggest help is the Loudness toggle on you integrated amp. Else use DSP, nothing is wrong with using it.

The thing to keep in mind is to address the loss of fidelity while listening at low volume.
 
Been experimenting with this phenomenon.

The biggest help is the Loudness toggle on you integrated amp. Else use DSP, nothing is wrong with using it.

The thing to keep in mind is to address the loss of fidelity while listening at low volume.

Thanks. Personally my philosophy is not to use tone settings or any processing/filters. I want to forget the system once the CD is put in and play button is hit. Settings keep you engaged with the system and that comes at a cost of distraction from sound/music immersion. But that’s a way out for those who don’t mind

Actually in this thread I am not seeking specific solutions to help me out, but to fundamentally understand the various contributors to low volume sound fidelity.
 
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Thanks. Personally my philosophy is not to use tone settings or any processing/filters. But that’s a way out. Actually in this thread I am not seeking specific solutions to help me out, but to fundamentally understand the various contributors to low volume sound fidelity.
Hi Sachin

Good that you started this thread. Currently I am searching for an amplifier if you conclude something please let me know as well.

Thanks.
 
Sachin, everything from quality of power to micro vibrations can mask the low level information. Fundamentally you have to reduce noise floor. One is the room noise floor and the other is the equipment noise floor.
Second factor that affects low level listening is the gain structure. Too much gain or too little gain can affect low level listening. Ideally the gain structure should be such that you can comfortably increase volume level to 1 o clock without having to run out of the room. And finally the software itself. If it’s a compressed recording, there’s nothing you can do.
 
Thanks. It should help that I have BS that are 88 dB sensitivity. I guess beyond sensitivity it’d also a a function of the quality and material of the driver cone? If so, which materials give better low volume performance?

Also, why do you say that balanced attenuation would mean loss of dynamics? By balanced attenuation I only meant that the amplitude on each frequency comes down by the same gain ratio as the volume is reduced.

I am not sure if sensitivity by itself matters as that is a guide to get the right amplifier which can drive it. it is anyway not straighforward since efficiency is not a published figure. The quality of the speaker & other components and the ability of the amp to give enough current at the right time at low volumes would be one

Once you get the above right, the key area would be the background noise which can mask details and it can be due to anything from power quality to noise in any device in the chain, isolation etc.
 
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Noise, noise, noise.

First, the noise floor of the electronics must be as low a possible.

Second, ambient noise of the listening room must be as low as possible. This is absolutely essential.

Third, some cables are less noisy than others.

Of course the recording itself must have low level info encoded.

Dynamic range compression (actually both compression and expansion are used to make recordings sound uniformly loud) reduces the dynamic range and no longer contains the true intent of the artist. In many musical genres, especially those involving acoustic instruments, near silence and thunderingly loud passages are part and parcel of the music.
 
That’s an out of the box, innovative thinking! And you are rightly cautious about it - a lot of us (me included) would baulk at the thought of selective attenuation of sounds in a song based on it’s dynamic level. Guess most of the modern TVs have something similar - so it’s quite acceptible for movies/HT, but with pure audio? - I sense a resistance building up in me. But guess your idea of progressive modification with a smart algorithm might be a way out.

70 dB is fairly reasonable. Yesterday I was checking with my system and I was pretty happy with the clarity and details till 70 dB, just okay at around 65 dB and was seriously missing stuff in the music at 60 dB (all average values). I was checking with the dB meter app on my iPhone which is my usual reference to check if I am playing too loud for my neighbours (I dare go only upto 85 dB average during busy hours, with a cautious mind).

I can’t take credit for this idea as it is already implemented in Audyssey (Dynamic volume) :)
I wish I could apply the same to my stereo setups too but they are all on Anthem Room Correction which does not do this

Having said that, a flat response curve (like what ARC creates - and is often seen as desirous by audiophiles) also helps with better fidelity at lower volumes
If i switch off ARC at moderate volumes, there is an immediate and very evident loss of clarity in the mid range as the room’s bass bloom starts shadowing the vocals, esp male vocals
 
Fresh, 100 proof Glenmorangie will do that easy.
Yes Now I started to understand this thread more elaborately... :D

@SachinChavan High Sensitivity Speakers, driven by an overwhelming amplification (large headroom) should be able to retain most of the details at lower volumes adequately. Just remember the Spl increments on Volume Dial are not very linear(erratic many times) especially with older amplifiers.
 
Yes Now I started to understand this thread more elaborately... :D

@SachinChavan High Sensitivity Speakers, driven by an overwhelming amplification (large headroom) should be able to retain most of the details at lower volumes adequately. Just remember the Spl increments on Volume Dial are not very linear(erratic many times) especially with older amplifiers.

DrKrack, thanks for the input on amplifier headroom. I intuitively see why that may be so.

And I am not referring to volume dial but average dB level (actual sound measurement). As I wrote in one of the comments. I am getting reasonable fidelity till about 65 dB but it starts suffering below that. Another FM pointed out that upto 70 dB is reasonable. But the quest goes on. And hence I wanted to be educated on the reasons.
 
I believe this has got to do with the size of the speakers as well.
Consider a bookshelf speaker with a 5" midbass, the dynamics would be very little when listening at low volume.
You would have to pump up the volume a little more higher to actually enjoy the music.

Whereas I got a chance to audition a 12" Altec Lansing Full Range speaker, the speakers could produce good amount of dynamics even at very low volumes. The Bass was present even at very minimal listening levels.Whereas in smaller sized speakers it is tough to achieve the same.
Few small drive loudspeakers are exceptions as well. But most of them cannot perform as well as a 12" driver when listening at low volumes.

This would also depend on the sensitivity of the speaker, the amplifiers power and its tendency to drive the speaker properly at various impedance changes when a music track is being played.
Impedance is never the same 8 Ohms as rated when you play a track.

Proper amplifier matching with the speaker, and a clean source are added boons.
 
Low... Wait.. Super Low ambient noise and a fresh mind/mood.

MaSh
I quite agree . . . Till 25 days back, I was keeping the volume of my amp at (say 'n').
Recently the temperature dropped, no more AC and I noticed the volume could be kept at ('n' - 5) to hear those same details. Last week, even the fans needed to be switched off and while sipping a mid-night cup of coffee I was comfortably listening to clarity even at 'n' - 12 !!
With pin drop silence, mind at rest I could hear clear detailed frequencies that I had been hearing at much higher volume otherwise.

I can now relate to your question @SachinChavan

Also, Imagine taking your equipments into a professional sound or recording studio, setting it up and then listening to the same music. I have been there, done that. So, can clearly say that ambient noise plays such a huge factor. Of course the other components definitely play their role, such as the amp, cables, speakers.
 
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It has almost nothing to do with the components per se.
1/ It's the human ears - at lower levels, human hearing drops off at low and high frequencies. Look up the Fletcher-Munson curves.
2/ It's the way the music is mixed/mastered.
3/ No matter how "/2" is implemented, different people are going to perceive sound differently at lower volume so there is no one size fit's all solution.
4/ "Smiley" equalization fixes this - it has nothing to do with any stage of equipment which is well designed.

And there is my 2 paisa worth. :p
 
Thanks @kapmish . You have added to my knowledge that in real life not all frequencies get amplified by the same gain. So perhaps some amplifiers do it better than others? Are there any kind of amps or what technology in an amp is able to achieve that better?

While you have elaborated on the distortion at high volumes, here I am looking for sound clarity/detail/integrity at lower volumes. Any thoughts on that?
In my experience, at lower volumes, speakers ability also comes into picture. Highly sensitive speakers (more than 90db) will give discernible bass even at low volume, making them sound better compared to speakers with less sensitivity. Amps should perform comfortably at low volumes within their overall sound character.

Please refer to this article to know more about Speaker sensitivity. explained very clearly.

I use Castle Knight 5 floorstanders having 91db sensitivity and they provide good bass even at low volumes.
 
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