What to do to improve western classical music listening on my setup?

[gurujee]

I have a very basic system with Marantz AVR SR6008 with Pioneer AJ FS52 floor standing speakers with a Wharfedale d10 Sealed subwoofer. Currently, it is fine for my casual listening needs. However, whenever I am trying to play my favourite western classical tracks it is sounding very uninspiring.

I used to listen to more classical and OSTs in my college days using a cheap multimedia speaker from Altec. And I remember even that was sounding very good. But now with this AVR+FS everything sounds fine except the classicals. I have been reading on the topic in the forum and google and it is something to do with the dynamic range!

Can I improve the reproduction of classical music in my system without upgrading anything? I am streaming from Apple Music.

 

[premoddev]

Your speaker need a powerful amplifier to shine.. look for a stereo amplifier rather than relying on AVR for listening music. Check for DD or O&B power amplifiers, they are having very good user feedbacks in the forum itself. Other than that you can search for some vintage high current amplifiers from the likes of NAD or Rotel or Yamaha.

 

[gurujee]

Your speaker need a powerful amplifier to shine.. look for a stereo amplifier rather than relying on AVR for listening music. Check for DD or O&B power amplifiers, they are having very good user feedbacks in the forum itself. Other than that you can search for some vintage high current amplifiers from the likes of NAD or Rotel or Yamaha.

Does adding a power amplifier influence the system’s current sound signature or it will just add the required power?

 

[keith_correa]

Nothing wrong with your Marantz, IMO. What is your source?

 

[Amarendra]

Does adding a power amplifier influence the system’s current sound signature or it will just add the required power?

Marantz sound is slightly anaemic. I had added a power amp from Norge (2 channel) to power my fronts (monitor audio)when I had that set up. So rather than create a new set up try a power amp. But this is the typical upgraditis spiral so be careful. The moment you add a power amp you will be tempted to add new speakers then better sub etc Nothing wrong with that if you have spare change but just warning you

 

[jigarpatel]

Try using direct mode or pure direct mode on AVR.
It's been long since I used AVR so confirm mode or other FM can share more details on it.

 

[rwnano]

I'd suggest that you have a good enough setup already...why nickel and dime optimize it. ??? "sounding uninspiring"??

 

[premoddev]

Does adding a power amplifier influence the system’s current sound signature or it will just add the required power?

Any component change in the current chain will have an impact in the sound signature, whether its DAC, Pre or Power, Speaker, cable etc. but how much? A very good power amplifier supposed to be transparent, which will not try to colour the sound.

Power ratings on Amplifier vs AVR is something we cannot compare as it is. If you have option to get an amplifier for home demo from your friends or any nearest dealer, please have a try before you make the decision.

Have you ever tried any amplifier with your existing speakers?

 

[Bloom@83]

I have a very basic system with Marantz AVR SR6008 with Pioneer AJ FS52 floor standing speakers with a Wharfedale d10 Sealed subwoofer. Currently, it is fine for my casual listening needs. However, whenever I am trying to play my favourite western classical tracks it is sounding very uninspiring.

I used to listen to more classical and OSTs in my college days using a cheap multimedia speaker from Altec. And I remember even that was sounding very good. But now with this AVR+FS everything sounds fine except the classicals. I have been reading on the topic in the forum and google and it is something to do with the dynamic range!

Can I improve the reproduction of classical music in my system without upgrading anything? I am streaming from Apple Music.

What is your source ?

 

[gurujee]

What is your source ?

@keith_correa I use AirPlay to Avr from Apple Music from iPhone

Any component change in the current chain will have an impact in the sound signature, whether its DAC, Pre or Power, Speaker, cable etc. but how much? A very good power amplifier supposed to be transparent, which will not try to colour the sound.

Power ratings on Amplifier vs AVR is something we cannot compare as it is. If you have option to get an amplifier for home demo from your friends or any nearest dealer, please have a try before you make the decision.

Have you ever tried any amplifier with your existing speakers?

I had once tried a marantz pm6007 with the same speaker, but I felt it was insufficient as that sounded a bit empty in in all ranges - definitely not like the sound I am currently getting with AVR. It is only with classical music, that it sounds not desirable.

If to choose between O&B and Marantz stereo power amp mm7025, which one should I consider?

 

[Mahi]

I had once tried a marantz pm6007 with the same speaker, but I felt it was insufficient as that sounded a bit empty in in all ranges - definitely not like the sound I am currently getting with AVR. It is only with classical music, that it sounds not desirable.

If to choose between O&B and Marantz stereo power amp mm7025, which one should I consider?

P'M 6007 is lower wattage amplifier sir

 

[arj]

I have a very basic system with Marantz AVR SR6008 with Pioneer AJ FS52 floor standing speakers with a Wharfedale d10 Sealed subwoofer. Currently, it is fine for my casual listening needs. However, whenever I am trying to play my favourite western classical tracks it is sounding very uninspiring.

I used to listen to more classical and OSTs in my college days using a cheap multimedia speaker from Altec. And I remember even that was sounding very good. But now with this AVR+FS everything sounds fine except the classicals. I have been reading on the topic in the forum and google and it is something to do with the dynamic range!

Can I improve the reproduction of classical music in my system without upgrading anything? I am streaming from Apple Music.

western classical is all about Macro dynamics. and memory of a sound always seems better than the actual sound

Instead of changing anything try to place your speakers + sub in a more optimal way and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Bloom@83]

Well , everyone has a different take on your problem. I feel the problem is with Apple Music itself. Have you tried from Spotify or Tidal ?

 

[bobbyndd]

If you feel like the AVR is having enough power for your pioneers ( and you mentioned its only with western classical, then try adding a good equilizer app before going for a new amp, just my thought. I normally don't use EQ but I added poweramp equilzer to my Apple Music and was happy.

 

[keith_correa]

I see in your signature that you have a "Pioneer BDP 180". Have you tried your choice of music playing from a disc on it and checking if you experience the same anemic sound?

 

[vkalia]

I have a very basic system with Marantz AVR SR6008 with Pioneer AJ FS52 floor standing speakers with a Wharfedale d10 Sealed subwoofer. Currently, it is fine for my casual listening needs. However, whenever I am trying to play my favourite western classical tracks it is sounding very uninspiring.

I used to listen to more classical and OSTs in my college days using a cheap multimedia speaker from Altec. And I remember even that was sounding very good. But now with this AVR+FS everything sounds fine except the classicals. I have been reading on the topic in the forum and google and it is something to do with the dynamic range!

Can I improve the reproduction of classical music in my system without upgrading anything? I am streaming from Apple Music.

What kind of classical music? Chamber/small scale works or orchestral?

I am a fan of larger-scale symphonies, and to my ears, the only system that has come close to replicating the sound of a live orchestra is a single-ended tube amp paired with high sensitivity speakers (ideally, horns). That said, if you have a small enough room, you can get by 91-92dB/W speakers as well.

IMO, you need the following things for orchestral works:
- a thick midrange supported by deep bass with somewhat smooth/warm highs
- a high dynamic range: if that is compressed, it affects how we perceive the music. An allegro without slam is an andante with pretensions!
- timbral accuracy: you want to hear not just leading edge of the instrument, but also the trailing edge and decay

For chamber music, you can give up a little on the high dynamic range and still be ok. And depending on your listening preferences, you may want something with a bit more neutral sound, albeit still somewhat smooth/warm highs.

Where exactly is your system failing right now?

 

[vkalia]

A few additional points:

1) I have been streaming 320kpbs MP3s and lossless ALACs - from Red Book to 24/192 - and while there may be a difference in quality, it is at best minor. Certainly not enough to make you go "this sucks" with one and "this is awesome" with the other. If it sucks with MP3s, it is going to suck with lossless - just marginally less so. And the reverse

2) You do not necessarily need more amplification unless you are listening at a very loud volume, in a very large room and your issues are the absolute crescendos. 1W will put out 87dB or so at 1m with a typical speaker - 81dB if you are sitting 2m from the speakers or 75dB if you are sitting a massive 4m away. The "100W" rated power of your amp will get you up to or over 99dB at around 64W - and maybe higher, if the sensitivity numbers are anechoic, vs in-room.

3) The difference in sound between amplifiers of suitable power is minimal - to the point that it is hard to differentiate between what is real and what is placebo. Let's put it this way - its gonna be the same as with 320kbps and lossless: going from one type of solid state amp to another is not to make the music go from "meh" to "awesome" - it will go from "meh" to "slightly less meh". At best. (To be clear, i am referring to the typical solid state amp you are going to get in this price range - which is likely Class D or Class AB with heavy dose of global feedback applied to make it measure well).

4) If you are hearing a huge difference between the 6007 and your AVR, it is likely equalization or some post-proc by your AVR.

5) If i had to make a wild-ass guess about your system - i will say that those Pioneers are biased to have a V-shaped FR, which is great for movies and may be ok for some types of music, but which sucks donkey dong when it comes to classical music. Eq it as the first option - otherwise, and i hate to say this, consider a different brand of speakers. Transducers are what make most of the tangible difference in sound quality. I will recommend Sonus Fabers (pretty much anything) or Indiqs (model depending on the type of classical music you listen to).

 

[keith_correa]

The in room, 1 meter response of the FS52. Pretty good, that!

Basic question and one that should have been asked initially: Western or Indian Classical? Examples will help.

 

[jls001]

An allegro without slam is an andante with pretensions!

Beautifully said!!!

 

[gurujee]

Marantz sound is slightly anaemic. I had added a power amp from Norge (2 channel) to power my fronts (monitor audio)when I had that set up. So rather than create a new set up try a power amp. But this is the typical upgraditis spiral so be careful. The moment you add a power amp you will be tempted to add new speakers then better sub etc Nothing wrong with that if you have spare change but just warning you

Try using direct mode or pure direct mode on AVR.
It's been long since I used AVR so confirm mode or other FM can share more details on it.

Have already tried pure direct before. Not a big difference.

I'd suggest that you have a good enough setup already...why nickel and dime optimize it. ??? "sounding uninspiring"??

Uninspiring as one not captivated or engrossed in the music. Similar to 'meh'

western classical is all about Macro dynamics. and memory of a sound always seems better than the actual sound

Instead of changing anything try to place your speakers + sub in a more optimal way and see if it makes a difference.

I acknowledge my subwoofer is not at the right place for space constraint. But the problem seems to come from speakers - the quite passages are hardly audible and when the loud passage comes, it is all of a sudden like new year celebration

Well , everyone has a different take on your problem. I feel the problem is with Apple Music itself. Have you tried from Spotify or Tidal ?

I used Spotify last night. The same tracks sound a little better with Spotify. I am definitely going to check it further tonight. I thought with apple music's lossless I won't have to look anywhere anymore!

If you feel like the AVR is having enough power for your pioneers ( and you mentioned its only with western classical, then try adding a good equilizer app before going for a new amp, just my thought. I normally don't use EQ but I added poweramp equilzer to my Apple Music and was happy.

Yes, I do confirm that after using the inbuilt eq of Apple Music last night especially the 'midnight', the sound is definitely little prominent. I will experiment with other EQ app tonight. Thank you.

I see in your signature that you have a "Pioneer BDP 180". Have you tried your choice of music playing from a disc on it and checking if you experience the same anemic sound?

Yes I do have a BDP, though I have no western classical CDs, I have tried several FLAC files (purchased from HDtracks). They sound better than streaming for sure but not a night and day difference.

The in room, 1 meter response of the FS52. Pretty good, that!

Basic question and one that should have been asked initially: Western or Indian Classical? Examples will help.

View attachment 70889

Western Classical. Symphonies, Sonatas, Nocturnes, Concertos, Waltz from Rachmaninoff, Mozart, Sibelius, Chopin, Strauss etc.