whats there in impedence? why 4 ohms speakers are costly?

[Flash]

DIY in thss case would be to get Drivers off the shelf.
Bands like Peerless, Tang bang, Aurum Cantus, Audax, Eton,Fountek, Seas, Gr-Research, Morel, Accuton etc etc..

There are a lot of guys who have built speaker cabinets / Crossover networks, using these drivers on the basis of what you are looking for.
Use this as a starting point . Source Drivers and using the T/S parameters use a software simulation to know the box dimensions, If the driver would be better for ported or sealed ,Port tuning, etc etc etc.
Base your cabinet design on this and continue from here ....

 

[anm]

For a person looking to buy mass market and wondering what to buy, only DIY could be getting drivers, crossovers and building the cabinet. Woodwork would be the DIY in this case. Cross over and cabinet design would be next, and finally driver design.

 

[Flash]

Blasto and Flash..As you guys maybe aware, there is a GB going on at present to buy speaker kits from GR research at a very good price ....There has been a lot of interest and number of people (me included) who hv never done any Speaker DIY are purchasing those kits. Since many of us are not into DIY, we are planning a GB for cabinets also ( the plans are given by GR ) ....So at the end of the day, we will get an almost finished speaker at a fraction of the cost of a branded one ..the only thing to see now is how good the final speaker actually sounds ...If it performs even half of what it is supposed to be capable of, it wud be fantastic ..

Yes ... Infact I am building cabs for the Omishra and sachu888 for the Gr drivers.
I will start a thread on the build. it would help FM's who have bought the kit and act as a guidline
The Design plans are pretty simple for the BS.
I am sticking to it with some mild modifications to the Cabinet wall thickness and bracing. I am not making any changes to the internal Volume though.

They are good drivers and very well acclaimed. They should rock your boat. considering the price. Definitely a Keeper

 

[Flash]

For a person looking to buy mass market and wondering what to buy, only DIY could be getting drivers, crossovers and building the cabinet. Woodwork would be the DIY in this case. Cross over and cabinet design would be next, and finally driver design.

You said it Brother....:clapping::clapping:

 

[Flash]

"" THIS THREAD HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DILUTED WITH EVERYTHING ELSE BUT THE ORGINAL 4Ohm , 8Ohm QUESTION """ hyeah:hyeah:hyeah:hyeah:

 

[avidyarthy]

I too had started a thread long time back ... based on mere observation, had found that most hi-end audio uses 4 ohm speakers .... never received any convincing replies!

BTW, going off topic again .... if you compare the woofer/mid range driver specs from GR Research, you would find an uncanny similarity with the ones from Peerless India ....!

 

[Flash]

I too had started a thread long time back ... based on mere observation, had found that most hi-end audio uses 4 ohm speakers .... never received any convincing replies!

BTW, going off topic again .... if you compare the woofer/mid range driver specs from GR Research, you would find an uncanny similarity with the ones from Peerless India ....!

The Drivers are made by Peerless India for Danny (Gr-Research) hyeah:

 

[avidyarthy]

So, I can compliment myself for 'observational' excellence ....

AND ....... ultey baans bareilly ko ? ... (sorry, don't have the vocab to provide for the translation ... but, nothing abusive ..)

 

[anm]

speaker designs are compromises. Cheap speakers need to work well with cheap amps, therefore they can not afford to make them low impedance. So if you want to be in the cheaper price range bracket, you HAVE to be 8 ohms, as not many entry level AVRs or int amps would be able to keep up with low impedance.
Once you design for higher price segment, you can take liberty of doing away with the 8 ohm restriction.
A low impedance speaker will also pull more current from the amp, if the amp is up to it.

All above is just my imagination.

 

[avidyarthy]

Still unanswered ................ :indifferent14:.

 

[viren bakhshi]

It's just a matter of design - or, perhaps marketing profligacy.

It's more of an industry understanding that speakers should be designed to an 8-ohm impedance. That's so amplifier manufacturers can safely design their amps to drive those loads. But, now, that amplifier power is so cheap, and so abundant, speaker manufacturers don't hold themselves to that any more.

There's absolutely no difference in cost in designing a 8-ohm voicecoil versus a 4-ohm voicecoil for a speaker driver. So, the resulting impedance of a speaker is because of its design. If two 8-ohm woofers are used, and connected in parallel, the resulting load will be 4 ohms. But, it's mistaken to look at just the voicecoil resistance. Impedance is a complex load, of composite resistance, inductance, and capacitance elements, that of the driver and of the crossover. The impedance varies over frequency, and may be very different from just the voicecoil resistance.

So, forget the notion that a 4-ohm speaker has to be more expensive than a 8-ohm speaker.

Now, the crux comes down to marketing savvy. The 4-ohm speaker, on a standard sensitivity test, gives a 3 dB boost. That's because the test voltage is 2.83V. The 4-ohm speaker draws more current than the 8-ohm speaker and plays louder. The marketing goons proclaim that as a superior speaker! Please do not believe them.

Viren

 

[doors666]

Yeah, they tend to do that, its true you get 3db more efficiency if specified at 2.83v at 1m. What they forget to tell you is that at half the resistance, power is at 2w not at 1w.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Hey Flash,

We are forgetting the R&D.
Speakers is not about putting costly drives into speaker boxes. It is merely assembling process that we are talking about.

Even so, who designs and builds the speaker drives? Can you do it DIY? Why not do it then? Extending your argument, how much does a 25k driver actually take to make? What if a 5k driver is sold to you for 25k after all the intermediate charges? What if a 25k driver is sold to the mass companies for 10k because they are purchasing it in millions and you are buying like -wait for it- 2?

A lot of companies do create their own drives along with other components to get their in-house sound. You can specifically hear out the differences as you move up the chain and definitely it is not due to only driver differences you would agree.

Iam not saying DIY is not benefecial, but under-stating the R&D and fine tuning done by big brands is not correct. It can be argued that they are able to sell their speakers for less than DIY speakers of the same plant by mass production and decreasing margins on single units. Not to talk about strict quality control + brand value maintenance + competitive edge. Other than ultra high ends, most mid end companies will die to price their products lesser to pip out the competetion if they can sell more units at the said price. And not to forget, most mass market companies are mostly DIYs ones upon a time which were accepted by a majority of the population. Else they would not have reaches the heights. Last thing, china is not synonymous to 'bad'.

If what you say is true then,
1) World will be full of DIY speakers
2) The DIY companies will eventually become mass producers and lose market.

R&D in India is always cheap. No wonder India could go to the moon at 1/5th cost of other countires. Do not think that Indian brains are less in R&D & speaker science and do not think that only a white guy can design an excellent speakers. There are a lot of educated and intelligent Indians out here who can design and build better speakers than the likes of B&W, Kharma Audio etc given the right opportunity and reach.

Having said that, I also do believe that designing a excellent sounding speakers takes a lots of knowledge and experience and there is where the thrill of DIY also lies.

I also second Flash thought that most of the reputed speaker brands of the early 2000 have now been taken over by Chinese brands who do not have the required experience and technical knowledge to design excellent sounding speakers. It takes years to develop that which is a distant possibility as of now. As far as the desing of these branded speakers are kept by the parent company and only the manufacturing with proper QC happens in China these speakers would be considered ok. It will still be a big challenge to know who designs these speakers. As per my observations the earlier generation of speakers by B&W, PSB etc sounded much better than the newer generations which keep me wondering who designed the current generation speakers as they dont have the sound signature which ther earlier generation speakers use to have.

Cheers,

 

[BLASTO]

R&D in India is always cheap. No wonder India could go to the moon at 1/5th cost of other countires. Do not think that Indian brains are less in R&D & speaker science and do not think that only a white guy can design an excellent speakers. There are a lot of educated and intelligent Indians out here who can design and build better speakers than the likes of B&W, Kharma Audio etc given the right opportunity and reach.

Hey hari,
I dont understand why you replied MY post with this information however relevent it is.
My post was regardng DIY by individuals. ie the end user/purchaser. Not indian manufacturers.
I think DIY is interpreted by different people differently here.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Hey hari,
I dont understand why you replied MY post with this information however relevent it is.
My post was regardng DIY by individuals. ie the end user/purchaser. Not indian manufacturers.
I think DIY is interpreted by different people differently here.

You had mentioned about R&D not happening by DIYers. When i went DIY first, i just gathered information for almost 4 years before i build my first DIY Floorstander in the year 1993. I have to admit that i sounded pathetic. But i did not give up. I read further and wondered why it sounded bad. Then i build an another one (thanks to my father's patience - yes i was in Engineering college then). It sounded only marginally better 1997. Again i read for almost 5 years and build and sold a couple of fabulous sounding speakers and it took me almost 18 years to arrive at the DIY TL sounding speakers which are being discussed about in the forum. Yes, if you have my kind of patience (and support from family members to my nonsense) then you can think of DIY else forget it and buy a commercially designed speakers with a sound background.

Cheers,

 

[Flash]

You had mentioned about R&D not happening by DIYers. When i went DIY first, i just gathered information for almost 4 years before i build my first DIY Floorstander in the year 1993. I have to admit that i sounded pathetic. But i did not give up. I read further and wondered why it sounded bad. Then i build an another one (thanks to my father's patience - yes i was in Engineering college then). It sounded only marginally better 1997. Again i read for almost 5 years and build and sold a couple of fabulous sounding speakers and it took me almost 18 years to arrive at the DIY TL sounding speakers which are being discussed about in the forum. Yes, if you have my kind of patience (and support from family members to my nonsense) then you can think of DIY else forget it and buy a commercially designed speakers with a sound background.

Cheers,

Kudos to you sir. and to your family. Would love to pay you a visit and share notes the next time I am in Bombay.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Kudos to you sir. and to your family. Would love to pay you a visit and share notes the next time I am in Bombay.

Definetly will like you to audition my speakers when you and me both are in Mumbai. (I have to travel due to my profession outside Mumbai- ERP project manager).

Cheers,

 

[BLASTO]

You had mentioned about R&D not happening by DIYers. When i went DIY first, i just gathered information for almost 4 years before i build my first DIY Floorstander in the year 1993. I have to admit that i sounded pathetic. But i did not give up. I read further and wondered why it sounded bad. Then i build an another one (thanks to my father's patience - yes i was in Engineering college then). It sounded only marginally better 1997. Again i read for almost 5 years and build and sold a couple of fabulous sounding speakers and it took me almost 18 years to arrive at the DIY TL sounding speakers which are being discussed about in the forum. Yes, if you have my kind of patience (and support from family members to my nonsense) then you can think of DIY else forget it and buy a commercially designed speakers with a sound background.

Cheers,

That's a great story and inspiring one. My comments were general on pros and cons of DIY. And as I mentioned earlier, its a different hobby all together and maybe not for everyone.

I did not know that your products were being discussed until you mentioned. Also, once you commercially sell those, those are no longer DIY, but designed and engineered ones.

As I mentioned earlier, DIY is interpreted with different meanings here. I was purely talking about the act of purchasing kits by hearing theories and making speakers whose final sound signature you may not fully know beforehand. Nothing personal.

 

[hemantwaghe]

R&D in India is always cheap. No wonder India could go to the moon at 1/5th cost of other countires. Do not think that Indian brains are less in R&D & speaker science and do not think that only a white guy can design an excellent speakers.

Facts please

In other spears are technology too where are fully indigenous products??Also any comparitive charts about costs sheets of mnoon mission?? I this thios is overstatement ...also USA for first mission had NO one attempted man moon mission before so must have had to start on lean slate ..and when we are marely "upgrading" their experience is not that one fifth cost is justified.

This is too big a motherhood statement.

also when it is said India is great in software -can you telkl me any "indian made in india" software making waves worldwide? What about other products? Any product fully R&D in india by Indian companies ,made in India SELLING phenomenally well worldwde?

It is very fashionably to claim that 20% enginerrs in Nasa are indian --remember it is FALSE.

 

[avidyarthy]

^^ sloshed .... ? Morning itself ? Oh, I forgot .... its Sunday !