whats there in impedence? why 4 ohms speakers are costly?

Facts please

In other spears are technology too where are fully indigenous products??Also any comparitive charts about costs sheets of mnoon mission?? I this thios is overstatement ...also USA for first mission had NO one attempted man moon mission before so must have had to start on lean slate ..and when we are marely "upgrading" their experience is not that one fifth cost is justified.

This is too big a motherhood statement.

also when it is said India is great in software -can you telkl me any "indian made in india" software making waves worldwide? What about other products? Any product fully R&D in india by Indian companies ,made in India SELLING phenomenally well worldwde?

It is very fashionably to claim that 20% enginerrs in Nasa are indian --remember it is FALSE.
The internet is wide open for everyone to research and find out about Indian achievements. You can search about ancient Indian achievements too and recent ones in the youtube. If i say less the better. I dont need to convince anyone about what Indians can achieve or have achieved as i am no doubt. If you need more proof go ahead and do your research.

Adding further to the loudspeaker's discussion - My experience is there is no perfect speaker for anybody. Its very relative subject as what is good or what is bad. If you like the sound signature its perfect for you for others it might still be not perfect. So only YOU have to convinced about the speaker sound which YOU are hearing too and NO other entity in the universe needs to be convinced about that speaker. This is because the other person is seldom going to sit in front of your speakers. If a speaker is sounding excellent to ALL OTHER PERSON in the world and it sounds pathetic to YOU does it make any sense. Vice-versa is also true - If a speaker sounds EXCELLENT TO YOU and sound PATHETIC TO THE REST OF THE WORLD does it make any difference to you. So remember YOU are the ONLY PERSON who needs to be convinced. Forget the REST and do not waste time in technical details, specifications and above all REVIEWS. Reviews are usually paid ones and should be taken with a pinch of salt as they are very very baised.

My two cents.


Cheers,
 
speaker designs are compromises. Cheap speakers need to work well with cheap amps, therefore they can not afford to make them low impedance. So if you want to be in the cheaper price range bracket, you HAVE to be 8 ohms, as not many entry level AVRs or int amps would be able to keep up with low impedance.
Once you design for higher price segment, you can take liberty of doing away with the 8 ohm restriction.
A low impedance speaker will also pull more current from the amp, if the amp is up to it.

All above is just my imagination.

Going back to the thread,
Most of the
Car Speakers are 4 ohm, as per he reasons mentioned by Virenji. ANM post above also has some merit as a the impedance come down, the current requirement does up and you need higher current carrying capacity in the amps.

But in actuality, 8 ohms/4 ohms just as a number and in isolation means nothing much (its nominal impedance) in the end the speaker impedance varies as per frequency as impedance depends on frequency.
So there are 8 ohms speakers which dip below 4 Ohms and those which keep well above 6 as the frequency of the sound signal changes
I had a 4 ohms speaker than never went below 4 !!
some 4 ohms speakers have a very high sensitivity such that they are easier to drive than an 8 rms speaker etc etc


The whole problem of Subjectivity of audio Is because of this//no manufacturer gives the right measurement !

I wish all speaker & Amplifier mfg give us the Frequency response and the Phase curves as part of the speakers.Technical matching would be so much easier (although that still will not predict as to how the combo will sound since we still dont know/dont care what to measure !!
 
The 'final' magic is done in the box .... the box design ... the exact perimeters are never revealed .... one can go physically take measurements and build, but still something is always missing!

Possibly, the driver / crossovers contribute just about 30%, balance 70% SQ is decided by the box design.
 
The internet is wide open for everyone to research and find out about Indian achievements. You can search about ancient Indian achievements too and recent ones in the youtube.


Cheers,

Inst ed of making motherhood statement can you show us some proof? AFAIK barring C V Raman no Indian has won nobel price ( Hargobind Khorana , Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar & Venkatraman Ramakrishnan were NOT citizen if India) .again which branded software is of fully indian origin??Same about fundamental principal of many sciences..And any attempt with commercial sucess - I am not able to trace..

By Indian means Indian product / software discovered BY Indian Companies , By Indian People In India..In R&D many times concept is of prime importance and then constitution of team is immaterial

Read this patent Data

China fifth in UN patent filings, India way behind - Rediff.com Business

United States (45,790
Japan (29,827)
Germany (16,736)
South Korea (8,006).
China, (7,946 )



and India??- 761

So hari sir please I think I am using "videshi" google, so will you please grace us with your research please?
 
Inst ed of making motherhood statement can you show us some proof? AFAIK barring C V Raman no Indian has won nobel price ( Hargobind Khorana , Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar & Venkatraman Ramakrishnan were NOT citizen if India) .again which branded software is of fully indian origin??Same about fundamental principal of many sciences..And any attempt with commercial sucess - I am not able to trace..

By Indian means Indian product / software discovered BY Indian Companies , By Indian People In India..In R&D many times concept is of prime importance and then constitution of team is immaterial

Read this patent Data

China fifth in UN patent filings, India way behind - Rediff.com Business

United States (45,790
Japan (29,827)
Germany (16,736)
South Korea (8,006).
China, (7,946 )



and India??- 761

So hari sir please I think I am using "videshi" google, so will you please grace us with your research please?

This is one more case of eating & drinking in Indian soil and boasting of foreign nationals achievements. I wonder if you should even be breathing Indian air. Do you listen to an Indian Raaga or even to Indian instruments or even a singer. Hope you agree that they too are patened by Americans hence they are not Indian. Just because these countries are socially well off they can afford to patent and spend on R&D. In India there are many social issues to tackle first and then goes spending money on Patents and R&D. More over and average Indian has to first think about the family and his daily needs.

Some Links for your thoughts,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsXwJdaHZ8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiKoB8nlid0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgf86k8C62g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgXq1dHLS0o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8NpaG0cAGo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pueVNbuZ2A4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQ4hIG9w7c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9s1h3WJ5kg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K71W1vGZ1ME&feature=fvwp&NR=1

For eg. Many of the FM's would like to start-up their own loudspeaker / amplifier manufacturing companies. There are no less talent out there. But will it make a commercial success. The answer is No. Hope you must have now got the answers.
 
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Apologies about going OT, but this topic is very important to all of us Indians and I share Hari Iyer's views and perspectives strongly on this matter.

To anyone tempted agree with Hemanth's position and extrapolate it to a cultural flaw or weakness, I will only remind them that today's Indian is the product of a Macaulayite education and that is the prime reason for failure and backwardness in all spheres that we see today. And because government policy is dictated by educated elite, it affects the poor uneducated Indian in the village as well.

The root of all such shallow viewpoints is explained here for example :Indic Mandala - Revisiting India's History
On the same site are links to interesting short essays Indic Mandala


In brief they are the myth of Western universalism and and triumphalist European theories of history. The reality is that Europe was the opposite of what we are led to believe - a straggler and laggard for a 1000+ years in intellectual sophistication, science and technology and economic growth, until it shot past in the last few centuries, borrowing, developing and improving upon technologies invented by the Chinese and also Indian resources to advance. The Industrial revolution would not have been possible in Britain, without India. And its not going to last as China will once again overtake them to reposition themselves as the leader of the world. It sounds chauvinistic when described thus without qualifying it with research to backup, in a brief sentence. But the research (including economic data) is there if you look for it, and I am not going to post it on an audio thread. But suffice to say, almost all perspectives on the rest-of-the-world that Indians and non-westerners are made to swallow today - the European account of history is typically a result of deficient thought process, bigotry and by indirect inference, notions of racial and cultural supremacy. Yes, one cannot but acknowledge the achievements of individuals and western minds and also the relatively recent ( by a few centuries) scientific and technological establishments and institutions in pure sciences and Maths (They do need praise and we are definitely poor and backwards in comparison, because of very specific reasons), but the larger canvas needs to be seen not just a few individual strokes of the paintbrush.

A person who has analyzed this really well is Mr. Rajiv Malhotra author of the path breaking book "Being different" Being Different Book: Rajiv Malhotra .
He offers one of the most well researched and scholarly perspectives that can lay a foundation to begin the process of re-thinking India and its unique contribution to the world civilizations. He has also addressed the cause and effects that have dumbed down Indian thinking and traditional dynamism with a certain poverty of thought process that afflicts Indian academia (and the modern Indian) today with the current education and supposedly free media (propaganda systems) in place.

If reading the book is too much or as a primer, once can subscribe to the numerous videofeeds on youtube like BreakingIndia's channel

Here is a sample Rajiv Malhotra's Lecture on U-Turn Theory at Lady Sri Ram College, Delhi - YouTube

Do look out for all his book on U-turn theory soon the be published.

HTH
--Rahul
 
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Inst ed of making motherhood statement can you show us some proof? AFAIK barring C V Raman no Indian has won nobel price ( Hargobind Khorana , Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar & Venkatraman Ramakrishnan were NOT citizen if India) .again which branded software is of fully indian origin??Same about fundamental principal of many sciences..And any attempt with commercial sucess - I am not able to trace..

By Indian means Indian product / software discovered BY Indian Companies , By Indian People In India..In R&D many times concept is of prime importance and then constitution of team is immaterial

Read this patent Data

China fifth in UN patent filings, India way behind - Rediff.com Business

United States (45,790
Japan (29,827)
Germany (16,736)
South Korea (8,006).
China, (7,946 )



and India??- 761

So hari sir please I think I am using "videshi" google, so will you please grace us with your research please?

I am surprised that you mention the fact that hk etc were not indians as they were citizens of US, but by using the same yardstick, fail to mention mother teresa, she was a citizen of india. Dont forget the noble committe is practically european, they even failed to give it to gandhi.

Fine, indian companies dont have too many patents, dont forget that companies like IBM, which holds max patents year after year has about a third of its strength worldwide in india and tons of patents get filed by them, similar cases with intel and hp etc also. These are not due to the brilliance of the company but due to the indians working in them.

If an indian company cant do these things i.e. innovate or launch world class products, its not due to the lack of talent in its software engineers, but due to the poor management running these companies. We can make kick ass products, but do we have the it in us to market it???? We indians havent lacked in technology or science, its our management that sucks, be it country, state, district, village or corporate level. Heck, what is stopping airtel from going into producing telecom equipment, just like huawei did over a period of time... its their poor management and lack of guts in the leadership. They are content with stealing your and my money by making innovative schemes. Why an infosys, wipro or tcs is content with doing stupid services and cant launch a single good product. Its because of shoddy management and marketing practises. The managers are letting their team as well as the whole country down.

We are great techies and scientists, but we suck as managers. If we were good managers, we would have never let go of guys like khurara etc.
 
XXactly so .... thats what making me (a brilliant blah blah blah something :D) jump back to an Indian entity within the next 3 months .... from a renowned European MNC ... but run by a flimsy, good-for-nothing, spineless Indian management whose only aim in life is to please the white skin .... to secure individual jobs!
 
B&W, PSB etc sounded much better than the newer generations which keep me wondering who designed the current generation speakers as they dont have the sound signature which ther earlier generation speakers use to have.

Cheers,

The older ones were designed by folks who were passionate about what they were doing and were not willing to compromise. The new ones are designed by stuffed shirts from the marketing department.


If a person is focused about what he doing he can create a pair of speakers that will sound better than almost all low to mid budget speakers in the market today using open source designs available. There is no rocket science here. It is stupidly easy to beat the popular mainstream speakers in the market.

The high end speakers and niche designs are difficult to beat though. That is where the R&D of many companies / folks goes into. But they too can be beat by a focused DIYer with right kind of tools, taste and means at his disposal.
 
Apologies about going OT, but this topic is very important to all of us Indians and I share Hari Iyer's views and perspectives strongly on this matter.

To anyone tempted agree with Hemanth's position and extrapolate it to a cultural flaw or weakness, I will only remind them that today's Indian is the product of a Macaulayite education and that is the prime reason for failure and backwardness in all spheres that we see today. And because government policy is dictated by educated elite, it affects the poor uneducated Indian in the village as well.

The root of all such shallow viewpoints is explained here for example :Indic Mandala - Revisiting India's History
On the same site are links to interesting short essays Indic Mandala


In brief they are the myth of Western universalism and and triumphalist European theories of history. The reality is that Europe was the opposite of what we are led to believe - a straggler and laggard for a 1000+ years in intellectual sophistication, science and technology and economic growth, until it shot past in the last few centuries, borrowing, developing and improving upon technologies invented by the Chinese and also Indian resources to advance. The Industrial revolution would not have been possible in Britain, without India. And its not going to last as China will once again overtake them to reposition themselves as the leader of the world. It sounds chauvinistic when described thus without qualifying it with research to backup, in a brief sentence. But the research (including economic data) is there if you look for it, and I am not going to post it on an audio thread. But suffice to say, almost all perspectives on the rest-of-the-world that Indians and non-westerners are made to swallow today - the European account of history is typically a result of deficient thought process, bigotry and by indirect inference, notions of racial and cultural supremacy. Yes, one cannot but acknowledge the achievements of individuals and western minds and also the relatively recent ( by a few centuries) scientific and technological establishments and institutions in pure sciences and Maths (They do need praise and we are definitely poor and backwards in comparison, because of very specific reasons), but the larger canvas needs to be seen not just a few individual strokes of the paintbrush.

A person who has analyzed this really well is Mr. Rajiv Malhotra author of the path breaking book "Being different" Being Different Book: Rajiv Malhotra .
He offers one of the most well researched and scholarly perspectives that can lay a foundation to begin the process of re-thinking India and its unique contribution to the world civilizations. He has also addressed the cause and effects that have dumbed down Indian thinking and traditional dynamism with a certain poverty of thought process that afflicts Indian academia (and the modern Indian) today with the current education and supposedly free media (propaganda systems) in place.

If reading the book is too much or as a primer, once can subscribe to the numerous videofeeds on youtube like BreakingIndia's channel

Here is a sample Rajiv Malhotra's Lecture on U-Turn Theory at Lady Sri Ram College, Delhi - YouTube

Do look out for all his book on U-turn theory soon the be published.

HTH
--Rahul

Development of any country needs a certain kind of attitude, focus and discipline. It has nothing to do with any history or anything of that sort. The country needs a complete grass root level revolution.

Unless we achieve this, many years hence we will still be talking about how we were again taken for a ride by the west !
 
I am surprised that you mention the fact that hk etc were not indians as they were citizens of US, but by using the same yardstick, fail to mention mother teresa, she was a citizen of india. Dont forget the noble committe is practically european, they even failed to give it to gandhi.

Fine, indian companies dont have too many patents, dont forget that companies like IBM, which holds max patents year after year has about a third of its strength worldwide in india and tons of patents get filed by them, similar cases with intel and hp etc also. These are not due to the brilliance of the company but due to the indians working in them.

If an indian company cant do these things i.e. innovate or launch world class products, its not due to the lack of talent in its software engineers, but due to the poor management running these companies. We can make kick ass products, but do we have the it in us to market it???? We indians havent lacked in technology or science, its our management that sucks, be it country, state, district, village or corporate level. Heck, what is stopping airtel from going into producing telecom equipment, just like huawei did over a period of time... its their poor management and lack of guts in the leadership. They are content with stealing your and my money by making innovative schemes. Why an infosys, wipro or tcs is content with doing stupid services and cant launch a single good product. Its because of shoddy management and marketing practises. The managers are letting their team as well as the whole country down.

We are great techies and scientists, but we suck as managers. If we were good managers, we would have never let go of guys like khurara etc.

actually I subscribe to Gobbles view on the impact of education.
Having lived in the US/Eu/Ausfor some time the primary 2 differences which go against us are.
while we can take it in two ways Ie Potential as well as Reality, i am more focussing on the reality factor below

1. Cultural : except for few communities (marvadis/gujjus etc) by nature we are very risk averse. For us a failure in business means a failure in life and Govt jobs having a Far higher "value". Especially in the US and Aus it is different and very often this is seen as a stepforward.
This could be because we are more education focussed, and a school dropout to start a business is seen as a failure of the parents as well. of course this is a generality rather than a rule !

2. Education: especially in the US the focus is on individual learning.ie the teacher gives a direction and expects a lot of self study and analysis while we have a more focus on Rote and rigour at a group level. soeven among educated folks we tend to be more conservative rather than pathbreakingly innovative.
Incidentally I rememeber a interview with Bill gates where he rated Indians one of the best at Problem solving ie given a problem we are very good at optimising..but we are not the ones to come up with the idea in the first place...the Americans are far ahead there.


IncidentallyCadence is not a good idea to quote as a pure Indian product..the designer is actually an Austrian ! but yes the promotee is an indian.

I believe with changing economic climate there are far more entrepreneurs in india today and it is definitely a welcome sign for the future
 
..We are great techies and scientists, but we suck as managers. If we were good managers, we would have never let go of guys like khurara etc.

i believe typically indians being Consensus driven and non confrontational are rated as good managers but there are very few "leaders' and innovators in the global Inc.
Most indians also come in with the ability of having literally lived since childhood in multi cultural/multi language scenarios.
 
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Again :)
I do believe there are lots of really good and talentedfolks out here who want to make a difference and are already doing so.

Eg I got to meet this gentleman Sreekanth based in bangalore who designs his own speakers. he has brought a FS model to my place and we heard it for good 2-3 hours. I must admit I am so impressed with the work which his speaker.. a clear product of love and toil.. it sounded really good ! (i had initially started with a -ve bias but you cannot ignore a quality product whenyou hear one)

Definitely better than so many other "branded" speakers I have heard. i believe he used to post here but does not now due to some reason.

But i wonder how many of us here will buy his speaker instead of a wharfedale,forget Cadence ?
 
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i believe typically indians being Consensus driven and non confrontational are rated as good managers but there are very few "leaders' and innovators in the global Inc.

Hit the nail on its head ........ thats where the problem lies! 90% of the operational staff ARE overheads .... better still to call them 'goats'. What quality of consensus could anyone get out of them? The so-called-leaders too end up being recruited from amongst the goats, since they have been non-confrontational in their nature to bring about any change in the way of absolute thinking.
 
Hit the nail on its head ........ thats where the problem lies! 90% of the operational staff ARE overheads .... better still to call them 'goats'. What quality of consensus could anyone get out of them? The so-called-leaders too end up being recruited from amongst the goats, since they have been non-confrontational in their nature to bring about any change in the way of absolute thinking.

But if you are living among "Goats" its better to brush up on ones 'Goat-herding" skills. :D
90% of people constitute an absolute majority..so it could be a matter of perspective.
 
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A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
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