When will you move to Projectors?

Donivlapog

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1) when you have a really big TV (75" or 85") and yet you feel the screen size is not enough
2) when you know that you are disciplined: ie. You watch only when you require and do not have the habit of keeping the TV on for longer hours
3) You think you are only going to watch movies or sports and have no requirement for watching DTH content or console gaming.
4) you are bored with TV technology and have gotten sucked into PJs
5) any other reason please specify...
 

Tuhin Lavania

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1. The immersion factor on a Projection setup is miles ahead than TVs. You just cannot get that immersion on whatever size TV when compared to a large screen.
2. The ability of having a similar centre channel as Left and Right channel by placing it behind the screen. I think this is huge. One thing that can never be done by the TVs.
3. Eye Strain. In a completely blacked out room, you are looking at the direct light from TV screens which puts a lot of eye strain compared to reflected light off the screen in a Projection System.
Now if the TV is properly calibrated, that issue might go away but im not sure.
4. Even if the size of TVs reach 120" or above, goodluck in bringing it into the room and placing it up. Plus the cost. Projectors come cheaper.

In a dedicated room, there is no place for a TV screen.
I think these all points are enough for one to move to PJs.
 

lightgamer

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As things stand now, I'll never move to a projector. The only advantage of a projector is the size, and TVs seem to be very quickly closing that gap. At 85" or so, the size is big enough to give a massive impact. 83" master class OLED A90J from Sony is going to be $8000 this year. Considering that the A90 series is supposed to be double the price of regular 700-nit OLED panels, we can expect regular (A80J and C1) 83" OLEDs to come around $4000 this year easily (so 4-5 lacs in India if there's volume).

A projector is inherently a compromised device unless the only thing you care about is size. The light goes to a screen and then is bounced around to your eye. However, when it travels back it interacts with the light coming from the projector and hence gets a bit distorted. That's why the images from a projector are never that sharp or contrasty as from a TV where the light directly comes to your eye. As an analogy, think of a soundbar with atmos reflecting from the roof v/s a dedicated HT with the speaker directly installed in the ceiling.

On top of it, it's extremely hard to do even decent HDR with a projector. Since the image can be projected to multiple sizes, there's no way to accurately tone-map the signal. You don't know how bright the scene since you can make the image bigger or smaller and hence less or more bright. You can get around this with a brightness meter and custom firmware but I doubt many would do that. Also even if you can tone-map, you need at least 7000-8000 lumen projector to even get 700-nit HDR over a 100" size. That's before accounting for the losses due to more distance travelled and reflection. You can treat the room to absolute darkness but HDR can never be rendered properly if the final brightness is 100 nits since it's on absolute scale.

Let's think about 2 scenarios:

  1. You have a proper HT room: In this case, you've probably spent a considerable amount on the separate room already and likely want the best of the best. That means you at least want true 4k (none of that nonsense 1080p to 4k pixel-shift ones will do) and HDR since almost all the movies come with HDR or Dolby Vision will do.

    In this case, a true 4k projector already narrows down the number of projectors you can get. And when you add HDR to that it's just one projector that's left and that is Sony GT-Z380. You can't even buy that thing and since it costs £14000 it will likely cost over 15 lacs in India. And that too won't give you OLED like blacks anyway.

    A big OLED (83-88") is going to be cheaper and much better PQ than getting a projector which can even do decent HDR. And not to mention that the OLED can do 120Hz and has amazing response times which the projector will never have. Also 120Hz means much better motion processing.
  2. You don't have proper HT room: Here it's no contest as the room is not even light controlled.

The only person a projector will make sense for is the one who is either just looking for a 100"+ screen only and is happy with 1080p and poor-HDR performance. Or you are willing to spend over 20 lacs for just HT equipment and get the best of the best 10000-lumen laser projectors (still won't get comparable quality to an OLED though).

I'm willing to sit a feet or two closer with an 80-90" TV but I won't compromise with picture quality. So projectors are not even worth considering for me.
 

Donivlapog

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Extremely well listed points indeed. But somehow the projector is not so appealing as compared to TVs especially when considering projectors can be heat radiating.
 

realactivex

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i use a 120 inch projector in addition to my 55 inch tv. apart from the immersive-ness of teh big screen pj, i have noticed two other advantages:
1. pj images are more 24 fps which is more like how you would have seen in good old movies
2. reflected light off a screen is much more easier on the eye compared to the direct light of the tv. The human eye is designed to only look at reflected objects and not direct sources of light to the extent possible. SO why should your video viewing be any different?
 

Tuhin Lavania

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As things stand now, I'll never move to a projector. The only advantage of a projector is the size, and TVs seem to be very quickly closing that gap. At 85" or so, the size is big enough to give a massive impact. 83" master class OLED A90J from Sony is going to be $8000 this year. Considering that the A90 series is supposed to be double the price of regular 700-nit OLED panels, we can expect regular (A80J and C1) 83" OLEDs to come around $4000 this year easily (so 4-5 lacs in India if there's volume).

A projector is inherently a compromised device unless the only thing you care about is size. The light goes to a screen and then is bounced around to your eye. However, when it travels back it interacts with the light coming from the projector and hence gets a bit distorted. That's why the images from a projector are never that sharp or contrasty as from a TV where the light directly comes to your eye. As an analogy, think of a soundbar with atmos reflecting from the roof v/s a dedicated HT with the speaker directly installed in the ceiling.

On top of it, it's extremely hard to do even decent HDR with a projector. Since the image can be projected to multiple sizes, there's no way to accurately tone-map the signal. You don't know how bright the scene since you can make the image bigger or smaller and hence less or more bright. You can get around this with a brightness meter and custom firmware but I doubt many would do that. Also even if you can tone-map, you need at least 7000-8000 lumen projector to even get 700-nit HDR over a 100" size. That's before accounting for the losses due to more distance travelled and reflection. You can treat the room to absolute darkness but HDR can never be rendered properly if the final brightness is 100 nits since it's on absolute scale.

Let's think about 2 scenarios:

  1. You have a proper HT room: In this case, you've probably spent a considerable amount on the separate room already and likely want the best of the best. That means you at least want true 4k (none of that nonsense 1080p to 4k pixel-shift ones will do) and HDR since almost all the movies come with HDR or Dolby Vision will do.

    In this case, a true 4k projector already narrows down the number of projectors you can get. And when you add HDR to that it's just one projector that's left and that is Sony GT-Z380. You can't even buy that thing and since it costs £14000 it will likely cost over 15 lacs in India. And that too won't give you OLED like blacks anyway.

    A big OLED (83-88") is going to be cheaper and much better PQ than getting a projector which can even do decent HDR. And not to mention that the OLED can do 120Hz and has amazing response times which the projector will never have. Also 120Hz means much better motion processing.
  2. You don't have proper HT room: Here it's no contest as the room is not even light controlled.

The only person a projector will make sense for is the one who is either just looking for a 100"+ screen only and is happy with 1080p and poor-HDR performance. Or you are willing to spend over 20 lacs for just HT equipment and get the best of the best 10000-lumen laser projectors (still won't get comparable quality to an OLED though).

I'm willing to sit a feet or two closer with an 80-90" TV but I won't compromise with picture quality. So projectors are not even worth considering for me.
Have you ever seen a proper PJ in a properly treated room ? Or have you ever met ONE person who says he enjoys watching movies on a 83 inch OLED more than watching on a 120 plus inch sized screen with proper projection setup and in a properly setup room ? Coz ive never met that one person who says like that.

Plus, you seem to have a wrong notion that more brightness means better HDR. HDR means dynamics, not more brightness. In the same way that loudness does not refer to better audio, more brightness does not mean better HDR.

I own a NX 7 and the new TO update for it is a game changer. On top of DTM, the new update now takes into account the screen size you have, the material of the screen and it just works. Perhaps you want to check it out how it does for HDR.
Im not even considering a Lumagen/MadVR Envy and a Anamorphic lens to the chain of the Projection setup.
 
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firearm12

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Me and my wife are totally spoiled by 120inch projector image. So much so that tv has looked uninsteresting for quite a while now. The immersive experience that a projector offers especially in evenings with a total dark room, no tv can offer that. This is especially true for 24fps cinemascope movies (hollywood not bollywood) as those are made specifically for big screens. It may not be 4k, colors may not be as bright as a modern tv but when it plays a movie, you cant hold yourself back to appreciate. If you are fond of movies, there is not a better choice. But then i must say that casual tv content dont look so good on it as its not made for such big screens.
 
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lightgamer

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Have you ever seen a proper PJ in a properly treated room ? Or have you ever met ONE person who says he enjoys watching movies on a 83 inch OLED more than watching on a 120 plus inch sized screen with proper projection setup and in a properly setup room ? Coz ive never met that one person who says like that.
Yes, and lots of movies in IMAX. I hate the dim and soft image of a projector. Also, I prefer a bright, punchy image over dim but big image.

And about the OLED vs projector thing, no one I or you know owns both. OLED has a better PQ which is an absolute truth. If you're denying that, then I'd like to not discuss further.
Plus, you seem to have a wrong notion that more brightness means better HDR. HDR means dynamics, not more brightness. In the same way that loudness does not refer to better audio, more brightness does not mean better HDR.
HDR works using EOTF curve, which is absolute and based on brightness of a TV. If a movie is mastered for 500 nits, it can't be displayed accurately on a projector at all. You'd have to use DTM which is always going to be inaccurate no matter how you treat the room.
I own a NX 7 and the new TO update for it is a game changer. On top of DTM, the new update now takes into account the screen size you have, the material of the screen and it just works. Perhaps you want to check it out how it does for HDR.
Im not even considering a Lumagen/MadVR Envy and a Anamorphic lens to the chain of the Projection setup.
At least you know what you're talking about. NX7 is a great projector. However, most DTM algorithms are not great. MadVR is approaching there with the 1.13 update but there are still issues with saturation.

As I said, it's a personal preference. I generally don't like the image of a projector. I prefer bright highlights even in a pitch-black room. I definitely understand that some others do.

If 10000+ lumen projectors become a commonplace in a few years, I'll absolutely consider them. However, as of now the projector market kinda sucks unless you spend big (like for your NX7) and you're still compromising big on HDR. You can get there with MadVR envy, but then we're talking at least 20 lacs on equipment like I said in my comment above.
 

BLASTO

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And about the OLED vs projector thing, no one I or you know owns both. OLED has a better PQ which is an absolute truth. If you're denying that, then I'd like to not discuss further.
@s_sachin and @sajjad4joy own both projector and OLED in hyderabad and I hear they are not using projector much after switching to oled and watching 4k and HDR both of which the projector lacks. Projector is a 1080p sony. They can comment if anything changed.
 

avtar2008

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if i have 4 5L with me, then I would always go for a PJ like nx7. I am not a pixel peeper, so, a little dim picture can easily compensate by its big size.

Moreover, I am a movie lover, so, I will always prefer a PJ
 

Tuhin Lavania

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I know a ton of guys who own both, a top of the line OLED and a Projector. And not even a Projector like the RS3000. They still prefer movie nights on the Projector.

Its not a dim picture on a PJ anyway unless you are watching a Sony 715 or a RS2000 on a 150 plus screen without a DCR lens, then offcourse it will struggle to put the desired light output.
The slight benefit of better PQ isnt worth what all benefits a proper projection setup provides over any TV. And ive said " Proper projection setup" Costlier speakers can be beaten in performance by very cheap ones but it isnt true in the case of video.
 

lightgamer

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Its not a dim picture on a PJ anyway unless you are watching a Sony 715 or a RS2000 on a 150 plus screen without a DCR lens, then offcourse it will struggle to put the desired light output.
It is a dim output on a PJ, which is why you have to get the room so dark to begin with.

You know what, let's calculate how bright your PJ will go with a 100" screen. Here's a handy chart:
1612324153628.png
So it'll do about 200 nits at 100" size. And that's a much brighter and more expensive projector than most. If you're claiming that a 200-nit screen will do comparable HDR to a 700+ nit screen, you're biased.
The slight benefit of better PQ isnt worth what all benefits a proper projection setup provides over any TV
There's just one advantage of a projector and that's size. Everything else is better on a TV. To me, size is not a big deal and I'd take PQ over it any day. In fact, I can sit 6-7 feet away from a 65" screen and absolutely love it. The angle to your eye is THX recommended and will look the same as a 100" screen from 10 feet away.
 

Tuhin Lavania

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It is a dim output on a PJ, which is why you have to get the room so dark to begin with.

You know what, let's calculate how bright your PJ will go with a 100" screen. Here's a handy chart:
View attachment 54391
So it'll do about 200 nits at 100" size. And that's a much brighter and more expensive projector than most. If you're claiming that a 200-nit screen will do comparable HDR to a 700+ nit screen, you're biased.

There's just one advantage of a projector and that's size. Everything else is better on a TV. To me, size is not a big deal and I'd take PQ over it any day. In fact, I can sit 6-7 feet away from a 65" screen and absolutely love it. The angle to your eye is THX recommended and will look the same as a 100" screen from 10 feet away.
Dude, no lol. Viewing angle is a thing but please dont compare a 65 incher with a 120 inch Scopescreen. It hurts.
Blackout room, a PJ like a native 4k Sony or a JVC, a 2.35 screen, demo this and get back here. You will forget all about OLED. And ive seen both. And i still stand by what i said, its not a dim picture by any way.
I was watching Hobbit 1 in 4k a couple of days back and i get 188 nits on a 120 inch 2.35 screen on low lamp which is plenty bright for me. I dont even need to run in high lamp.
One last thing, a brighter Projector does not mean better HDR. When calibrated, the lumens fall down drastically.
Yes you have to a have a black hole to get the best picture. Along with that, it also cuts down distractions while watching. ( which is more important to me ).
 
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Tuhin Lavania

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I get it that OLEDs are amazing piece of technology and everyone loves them. There is a dude here in the forum who once said, a while back he prefers OLED to even the experience of a True IMAX theatre. NO. It cant be true. Nothing beats the video in a true IMAX theatre. Nothing. Not even a 50 lakh projector. The audio can be matched but its impossible to match the video in a True IMAX.
 
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lightgamer

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Dude, no lol. Viewing angle is a thing but please dont compare a 65 incher with a 120 inch Scopescreen. It hurts.
Viewing angle is the only thing that matters. It's pure science. 60" from 5 feet will look the exact same as 120" from 12 feet. Size doesn't matter lol
Blackout room, a PJ like a native 4k Sony or a JVC, a 2.35 screen, demo this and get back here. You will forget all about OLED. And ive seen both. And i still stand by what i said, its not a dim picture by any way.
Even IMAX doesn't look as good as an OLED FFS. Forget about your crappy JVC.
I was watching Hobbit 1 in 4k a couple of days back and i get 188 nits on a 120 inch 2.35 screen on low lamp which is plenty bright for me. I dont even need to run in high lamp.
Sure mate.
One last thing, a brighter Projector does not mean better HDR. When calibrated, the lumens fall down drastically.
Yes you have to a have a black hole to get the best picture. Along with that, it also cuts down distractions while watching. ( which is more important to me ).
I'm done with this discussion. It's clear that I'm just wasting time here. Someone who rejects how physics and HDR works is beyond conversing.

Have a good day. I won't reply further.
 

Tuhin Lavania

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Oh man lmao. What a butthurt kind of guy. Watching movies in a True IMAX theatre is inferior to an OLED ? Dude, are you for real ?
Talk about the experience here of watching movies.
I never rejected Science. I agree on viewing angle. But, you see, its about immersion, something you cannot get with your potato OLED.
5 feet from a 65 inch ? Lol
Well then why not a get a 48 inch CX and sit within 2 feet of it and watch movies why even spend on a 65 or a 75 incher OLED ? That your logic ?
Watching movies on a 120 plus scope screen is as immersive as a 60 incher OLED ? Take a walk, man lmao


So the NX 7 is a great PJ, you yourself told that in the above comment and now its a crappy JVC ? lmao
I knew the moment i posted the first comment its a waste to talk to fanboys like you who have never demoed a proper projection setup and come in here bashing every other's opinions.

Oh and Moreover, i see your comment where you have acknowledged Size being a plus for Projectors. Why ? Coz everything depends on Viewing angle so size shouldnt be plus, right ? Thats according to your logic, mate.

Never seen a proper projection setup but oh boy OLED is the best experience lmao ok mate think whatever helps you sleep better at night.
 
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Donivlapog

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I started this post and so let me act like a kind of moderator here. No disrespect to anybody here but I wish to have a discussion and not arguements in bad taste. Let's not mudsling and just give inputs with the disclaimer that to each his own.
And to Tuhin Lavania, could you please let me know if I save up 4 lakhs in a matter of a year or a couple months sooner than that by means of a savings I have already started for a year now, just for getting hands on a 77" OLED, can I instead try my hands on a splendid pj on that price range? Is it a better buy ?
 

Prameet

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I have moved to the other direction. I had a 1080p projector for 10 years just to watch movies. Once it broke down I switched it with a 65" fald 4kHDR led tv on a trial basis.

With the advent of HDR I won't be going back to a projector anytime soon now. I'll rather go for an oled 75" may be.

Had my projector broken down 5 years back with full HD and 3D being the main specs I would have hands down changed my projectot with another 3d capable projector.

But as of now 3D is almost obsolete in home cinema and HDR is the future and current projectors with hdr is just a gimmick.
 
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