Which Streamer should I buy ?

[Amitdubey]

You may enjoy a CCA and but have you heard a 14k usd or even a 5k usd streamer ? Pls try and audition one … you will throw that CCA out of the window. Pls dont dismiss the high end so dramatically.

Saurabh, I will always dismiss a 14k usd streamer! Period ! I don't think you get the point and thus making a statement of comparing a CCA with these kind of streamers and throwing away CCA. So let's say you spend 14k on X1. What's the rest of your rig going to look like? What will be your speakers, amp in a chain which has a 14k streamer! I'm sure 50-100k..eh?. Not to mention I clearly stated "In my use case". My use case scenario being music streaming from the time I wake up till I go to bed, rendered from my phone. I am yet to come across a streamer app which is as good as bubble upnp and hifi cast which I use to render my 2 TB collection from my media server to CCA. I understand.. different strokes for each of us.

 

[SaurabhK]

However u cant call it utter nonsense … well enjoy your cca is all i can say.

 

[Amitdubey]

However u cant call it utter nonsense … well enjoy your cca is all i can say.

When an opinion is yours, like it was mine.. You can call it whatever you want, sir.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Well I don't know how well this will be taken

If the fidelity of content provided by Ganna HD gives you full satisfaction, you probably did not need the elaborate setup & string of LPSs in your system.

I have personaly been Underwhelmed ...actually disappointed with the fidelity from Tidal & Qobuz.

I also feel flac files played back can be significantly bettered by locally ripped wav files.

Hence, to me, your elaborate setup with the LPSs deserved local cds ripped to wav, to display its true potential.

No offence meant, just my view n experience.

I do have a local ripped library of about 1 TB, including DSD's. But Iam happy that I can be content with gaana HD

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

You may enjoy a CCA and but have you heard a 14k usd or even a 5k usd streamer ? Pls try and audition one … you will throw that CCA out of the window. Pls dont dismiss the high end so dramatically.

I did try a 5k usd lumin I have to admit

But I felt my 5k CCA was not too bad considering the delta in price

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

However u cant call it utter nonsense … well enjoy your cca is all i can say.

That lumin X1 still has ess sabre chips...and trust me that you can buy the dual chips that it flaunts for less than 100 usd. So the remaining cost is just insane

Just as with any thing else in life...the lumin X1 is priced to match a sound vs price bracket. And it has nothing to do with the cost of the components that went into the build of the X1 itself....and the same equation holds true for all high end gear. Manufacturers build it first, and then depending on the sound quality, decide in which price bracket to plonk it into. So the high end game is silly at most times if you ask me

 

[SaurabhK]

Theres more to a streamer than a chip btw. Anywuas this is rajeevs thread who is on a quest for better sound.

 

[Gunbir]

Hello Good afternoon
I am Rajeev Kale new member and new in Audiophile hobby. I ready many of your post and was fascinated by your knowledge and passion for music.

Please recommend me good streamer with DAC which will be great on sound quality as well as good user interface from App point of view.
My present set up is
Marantz PM KI Ruby Integrated Amplifier 100 Watt RMS @ 8 ohms
Oppo BDP 103 Blue ray player ( Currently I am using it for Tidal and driving USB hard drive where I have large stock of songs)
Speakers PMC twenty25 23 floor stand

For Home theatre I am using same PMC floor stand and have Denon 7200 WA AV Receiver.
Currently I use Denon music direct as it is Roon tested
I have Roon Software 1 year subscription.
For Spotify I use again Denon because Oppo doesn't recognize Spotify.

The quality out of Denon is below average and Oppo 103 while DAC is good and sound is better than Denon AVR but the user interface Oppo media control app is below average.

Keeping the above in mind please recommend some device which will be good value for money.

I have already done demo of Bluesound node 2 I ( found very average )
Lindeman Lime tree ( slightly better than Node 2 I but the app sucks )
Lumin D 2 I found very bright on sound quality.

Cambridge Audio CXN V2 again not sure about the sound quality and Demo is not possible.

So bit confused now and need expert advise.

Regards

Rajeev Kale.

Since you're using Roon, and you like the Oppo's sound... You can consider using a network bridge with your Oppo.

The Bridge will connect to the LAN and to the Oppo's USB input. While any bridge (RPi based for example) will do the job, a good bridge like the SOtm sMS-200 Neo or the Lindemann Limetree Bridge will also help get the optimal quality from the Oppo.

 

[IndianEars]

The Opps 103 Has BOTH - LAN and USB inputs.

There is No Need for an Expensive Bridge (which will cost more than the Oppo!)

I have not used an Oppo, but I believe that it can be used Connected to a PC . Load JRiver Software on your PC or Roon and Connect the Oppo either to the PC via USB or via your Ethernet router / switch to the Oppo. The Ethernet route will probably need some configuration settings.

Via the USB, the Oppo should show up on yr PC as if its another sound Card.

 

[DB1989]

The Opps 103 Has BOTH - LOAN and USB inputs.

There is No Need for an Expensive Bridge (which will cost more than the Oppo!)

I have not used an Oppo, but I believe that it can be used Connected to a PC . Load JRiver Software on your PC or Roon and Connect tyhe Oppo either to the PC via USB or via your Ethernet router / switch to the Oppo. The Ethernet route will probably need some configuration settings.

Via the USB, the Oppo should show up on yr PC as if its another sound Card.

View attachment 57181

Nope, it cannot be connected to a PC. These USB inputs are for thumb drive and wireless adapter. The manual States as much and does not indicate that it can be used as a standalone DAC.

The LAN is to use it as a media streamer and for internet connectivity.

 

[shyamv]

That lumin X1 still has ess sabre chips...and trust me that you can buy the dual chips that it flaunts for less than 100 usd. So the remaining cost is just insane

Just as with any thing else in life...the lumin X1 is priced to match a sound vs price bracket. And it has nothing to do with the cost of the components that went into the build of the X1 itself....and the same equation holds true for all high end gear. Manufacturers build it first, and then depending on the sound quality, decide in which price bracket to plonk it into. So the high end game is silly at most times if you ask me

Couldn't agree more. Lumin X1 is insanely price at $14K. Compare this against Pro-ject PreBox Digital S2 DAC which has dual ESS9038q2m in a similar dual mono design, as Lumin X1, which sells for $500. I am not sure if there is an audible difference between 9038Pro in Lumin X1 and the more power-efficient 9038q2m in Pro-Ject S2. Lumin X1 might probably have a better power supply, analog stage and isolation for its networking but all this doesn't justify the price.

To the $500 Pro-Ject S2 DAC (or any other Topping or SMSL Delta-Sigma DAC), add Allo Digione/USBridge Signature plus LPSU for another $500 and one shall get a DAC+Streamer combo with 100% of features, 90% of sound quality, 90% of user experience at less than 1/10th the price of Lumin X1. However, if one would like to pay that much of price premium for that wee bit extra, that is completely their choice.

Of course, R2R DAC are supposedly the next best thing after sliced bread and I have not yet tried any of these ones yet!

 

[SaurabhK]

If looking for return on investment i think stock market is better . This is audio

 

[DB1989]

Since you're using Roon, and you like the Oppo's sound... You can consider using a network bridge with your Oppo.

The Bridge will connect to the LAN and to the Oppo's USB input. While any bridge (RPi based for example) will do the job, a good bridge like the SOtm sMS-200 Neo or the Lindemann Limetree Bridge will also help get the optimal quality from the Oppo.

Are you sure the USB input of the oppo allows it to act as a standalone DAC? I don't think it does.

 

[Amitdubey]

Couldn't agree more. Lumin X1 is insanely price at $14K. Compare this against Pro-ject PreBox Digital S2 DAC which has dual ESS9038q2m in a similar dual mono design, as Lumin X1, which sells for $500. I am not sure if there is an audible difference between 9038Pro in Lumin X1 and the more power-efficient 9038q2m in Pro-Ject S2. Lumin X1 might probably have a better power supply, analog stage and isolation for its networking but all this doesn't justify the price.

To the $500 Pro-Ject S2 DAC (or any other Topping or SMSL Delta-Sigma DAC), add Allo Digione/USBridge Signature plus LPSU for another $500 and one shall get a DAC+Streamer combo with 100% of features, 90% of sound quality, 90% of user experience at less than 1/10th the price of Lumin X1. However, if one would like to pay that much of price premium for that wee bit extra, that is completely their choice.

Of course, R2R DAC are supposedly the next best thing after sliced bread and I have not yet tried any of these ones yet!

Law of diminishing returns with this segment. The bigger value contribution comes from the DAC and its implementation stage within these high end streamers. But the DAC and all the other components do not add up or justify the price. And the software part really is a downer and takes away from the experience, understandably as the toughest thing for these companies to get right is software. The app experience last I used a lumin D2 was really poor. Very difficult to put down that kind of dough for that quality of app experience. There is soon arriving a point where components with amplifiers and streamers will become standardised like that of mobile phones and the differentiator would be the software(Google, apple, samsung, one plus) with unique selling proposition on a lean, uncluttered, intuitive OS with regular bug fixes, design updates and enhancements to the OS and app with continuous support upto 3 - 5 years. And those who don't keep up will left behind. This is more important for streamers as a category given the changes in technology and evolving use case scenarios of the customer base. Kef's app for first generation ls50 wireless was so bad, so was for cxn v1. Infact there are more products which are bad, a few are acceptable and very few are good. Just look at some of the DVD players and streamers from 10 years back. Its such a pain to navigate the interface now given they've not been updated for a decade or more. Just imagine putting 14k, 10k, 5k usd on a product without knowing whether the company will even survive this pendemic, other macro economical factors or go bust and close down leaving us with a product which starts turning stale the moment you pay for it. A beautiful set of passive speakers and all analog amp will stand the test of time for the same money spent. And we all know how big an upgrade you would have with this kinda spend on speakers and amp

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Theres more to a streamer than a chip btw. Anywuas this is rajeevs thread who is on a quest for better sound.

I thought I would continue my rant about that lumin X1 a little further. The denafrips terminator at 4500 usd, uses hundreds of resistors in parallel to get the Digital to analogue conversion done. As any one who is DIY or technical knows, that no 2 resistors from the same company and model lot measure the same. There are always deviations in their actual measures performance. So to get 100 resistors of the closest parameters, denafrips has to probably buy a lot of 500, and measure and then use the closest 100 for the build, and discard the remaining 400.

So denafrips charging 4.5k USD is still understandable considering the wastage involved. But lumin charging 14k for a pair of ess sabre pro chips, which again are cheap as chips, just defeats the whole price to build cost equation for me

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Theres more to a streamer than a chip btw. Anywuas this is rajeevs thread who is on a quest for better sound.

I thought I would continue my rant about that lumin X1 a little further. The denafrips terminator at 4500 usd, uses hundreds of resistors in parallel to get the Digital to analogue conversion done. As any one who is DIY or technical knows, that no 2 resistors from the same company and model lot measure the same. There are always deviations in their actual measures performance. So to get 100 resistors of the closest parameters, denafrips has to probably buy a lot of 500, and measure and then use the closest 100 for the build, and discard the remaining 400.

So denafrips charging 4.5k USD is still understandable considering the wastage involved. But lumin charging 14k for a pair of ess sabre pro chips, which again are cheap as chips, just defeats the whole price to build cost equation for me

I thought I would continue my rant about that lumin X1 a little further. The denafrips terminator at 4500 usd, uses hundreds of resistors in parallel to get the Digital to analogue conversion done. As any one who is DIY or technical knows, that no 2 resistors from the same company and model lot measure the same. There are always deviations in their actual measures performance. So to get 100 resistors of the closest parameters, denafrips has to probably buy a lot of 500, and measure and then use the closest 100 for the build, and discard the remaining 400.

So denafrips charging 4.5k USD is still understandable considering the wastage involved. But lumin charging 14k for a pair of ess sabre pro chips, which again are cheap as chips, just defeats the whole price to build cost equation for me

 

[SaurabhK]

Dont know abt lumin but However to generaliE abt everything expensive is absurd. Did you hear that 14k lumin btw ? Was it that bad?

 

[rsjaurr]

I thought I would continue my rant about that lumin X1 a little further. The denafrips terminator at 4500 usd, uses hundreds of resistors in parallel to get the Digital to analogue conversion done. As any one who is DIY or technical knows, that no 2 resistors from the same company and model lot measure the same. There are always deviations in their actual measures performance. So to get 100 resistors of the closest parameters, denafrips has to probably buy a lot of 500, and measure and then use the closest 100 for the build, and discard the remaining 400.

So denafrips charging 4.5k USD is still understandable considering the wastage involved. But lumin charging 14k for a pair of ess sabre pro chips, which again are cheap as chips, just defeats the whole price to build cost equation for me

With due respect I partially disagree with you Mr bada$$ Manohar
Not only the number of components but their quality matters too. Off the shelf, Sabre chips are not very costly and so are those resistors in the Denafrips.
Overall better components like power supply, chassis, feet, digital stage, analog stage, app etc to name a few, all result in overall better sound. If you see the internal images of Lumin X1 you will see two Lundhal transformers. Now which other manufacturer uses these high quality transformer, definitely not Project S2.
Lumin has a great app and is considered to be better or at least at par with Aurender and dCS. Overall quality of Lumin is also considered very close to other similarly priced stuff. Some even prefer Lumin over above mentioned brands.

I'm not a fan of Lumin either and if I have that kind of money I would prefer Aurender or dCS and I am looking for a used dCS.

 

[DB1989]

With due respect I partially disagree with you Mr bada$$ Manohar
Not only the number of components but their quality matters too. Off the shelf, Sabre chips are not very costly and so are those resistors in the Denafrips.
Overall better components like power supply, chassis, feet, digital stage, analog stage, app etc to name a few, all result in overall better sound. If you see the internal images of Lumin X1 you will see two Lundhal transformers. Now which other manufacturer uses these high quality transformer, definitely not Project S2.
Lumin has a great app and is considered to be better or at least at par with Aurender and dCS. Overall quality of Lumin is also considered very close to other similarly priced stuff. Some even prefer Lumin over above mentioned brands.

I'm not a fan of Lumin either and if I have that kind of money I would prefer Aurender or dCS and I am looking for a used dCS.

Coincidentally, i was watching hans beekhuyzen just now and he was echoing the exact same sentiment i.e. the DAC chip alone contributes only a fraction to the sound and every other component may have a bigger impact.

 

[lalit09]

Hello Good afternoon
I am Rajeev Kale new member and new in Audiophile hobby. I ready many of your post and was fascinated by your knowledge and passion for music.

Please recommend me good streamer with DAC which will be great on sound quality as well as good user interface from App point of view.
My present set up is
Marantz PM KI Ruby Integrated Amplifier 100 Watt RMS @ 8 ohms
Oppo BDP 103 Blue ray player ( Currently I am using it for Tidal and driving USB hard drive where I have large stock of songs)
Speakers PMC twenty25 23 floor stand

For Home theatre I am using same PMC floor stand and have Denon 7200 WA AV Receiver.
Currently I use Denon music direct as it is Roon tested
I have Roon Software 1 year subscription.
For Spotify I use again Denon because Oppo doesn't recognize Spotify.

The quality out of Denon is below average and Oppo 103 while DAC is good and sound is better than Denon AVR but the user interface Oppo media control app is below average.

Keeping the above in mind please recommend some device which will be good value for money.

I have already done demo of Bluesound node 2 I ( found very average )
Lindeman Lime tree ( slightly better than Node 2 I but the app sucks )
Lumin D 2 I found very bright on sound quality.

Cambridge Audio CXN V2 again not sure about the sound quality and Demo is not possible.

So bit confused now and need expert advise.

Regards

Rajeev Kale.

Also consider arcam st60.