Why are LCD/Plamas so costly ?

[square_wave]

hey nirrej, no disrespect at all to your credentials.....but DVDs are 576i....not 576p...which is why one of the steps that your DVD player or TV does while 'scaling' the image is de-interlacing.

I think a progressive scan player outputs 576 p.

I think an HD panel when it displays SD, does a bit of averaging around the pixels to accommodate the surrounding pixels. Is this called down-scaling ? This causes a certain blur/smudge in the image if you watch it closely.
The CRT tv's were made for SD content ( exact pixel to pixel, match) hence no issues.
This does not make a CRT tv superior to a FPD.

While the above is true, a CRT monitor gives you more natural color and picture than an LCD panel with the same pixel resolution. This is a known issue in the professional circles.

 

[nirrej]

I think a progressive scan player outputs 576 p.

Yes all good DVD players output in 576P, if you connect to your TV through the component out, but normal STBs dont have that option except new models of Sun DTH and Big TV.
There is a visible difference in the picture quality between progressive and interlaced.

 

[psychotropic]

hey square wave and nirrej, yes a progressive scan DVD player outputs 576p, but the video on the DVD itself is at 576i (most of the time). A progressive scan DVD player de-interlaces this and outputs it at 576p. De-interlacing can be done by the DVDP, the AVR or the TV and would depend on what kind of de-interlacing technology is contained in the component.

A consumer level progressive scan DVD player will have approximately as good or bad a de-interlacer as a consumer level LCD or plasma, so effectively resolution-wise there is no difference between your tata sky and your DVD video (but i am guessing that content such as film which is originally non-interlaced may look better with progressive scanning than TV broadcasts that are originally interlaced, but this is a guess)......but compression is the real deal breaker, for an idea of this look at channel 100 on your tata sky (the help channel/tata sky ad channel), usually the compression is the least on this and the picture is therefore much closer to DVD than the rest of the channels.

And again.....the fact that compression is visible on a high resolution display cannot be held against the high resolution display! It is the HD displays' superior capability that reveals the compression artefacts. Therefore these are superior devices. The fact that an SD CRT can show this compressed image better, is therefore not a criticism of the merits of the FPD, but a testament to the failings of the DTH operators.

square-wave the approximation of pixels is the upscaling. Quality of the picture will depend on how good the upscaling technology is. If Tata Sky decided to broadcast uncompressed signals tomorrow, and those signals were sent through (and deinterlaced and upscaled through) a Denon 1910 AVR with Anchor Bay's VRS chip, I would imagine that those images would look stunning and as good as VRS-processed DVD.

yes, I agree that colour reproduction is best on CRTs (and film and multimedia professionals use CRTs for colour reference), pretty closely followed by plasma and then by LCD, but if we compare the CRTs available on the market to the FPDs available on the market, the FPDs are clearly superior for their resolution and size. Basically the pros so far outweigh the cons that it's disingenuous to say that LCD or plasma 'lags behind' CRT.

How all this is connected to the prices I am starting to lose track of

I think a progressive scan player outputs 576 p.

I think an HD panel when it displays SD, does a bit of averaging around the pixels to accommodate the surrounding pixels. Is this called down-scaling ? This causes a certain blur/smudge in the image if you watch it closely.
The CRT tv's were made for SD content ( exact pixel to pixel, match) hence no issues.
This does not make a CRT tv superior to a FPD.

While the above is true, a CRT monitor gives you more natural color and picture than an LCD panel with the same pixel resolution. This is a known issue in the professional circles.

 

[Reds4ever]

Yes all good DVD players output in 576P, if you connect to your TV through the component out, but normal STBs dont have that option except new models of Sun DTH and Big TV.
There is a visible difference in the picture quality between progressive and interlaced.

DVD players outputting 576P doesn't necessarily result in a better picture on the TV. Some TVs do de-interlacing better than DVD players. In whatever setup a customer has at home, one has to take to call on where he/she wants the processing (de-interlacing and scaling) to be done depending on the strengths and weaknesses of individual components (TV, DVD Player, STB) in the chain.

For a TV known to have issues with de-interlacing such as some of the 2009 Panasonics, it might be good to do it in your DVD player or to have a STB which outputs a progressive signal. However, if you take a 2009 Samsung, I'd expect it to do better de-interlacing than DTH set-top boxes and most DVD players.

 

[adder]

The world is bigger than India!

LCD TVs are far from new, and far from being a niche product.

well like i said the world is bigger then this forum,even in the US there are millions of people who can't afford them,hell my uncles wife parents who is a american(Caucasian)then can't afford a new flat screen tv,they don't even have cable tv.
did u know that many in the US couldn't afford the digital conversion process,where they had to buy a STB.
if u have every watched COPS in star world ,u can see that many amercans are really poor.
just because u can afford them or ur neigbour or ur friends can afford them doesn't mean every one can afford them.
a family earning 10k a month in a city ,do u think they can afford a 32" or even a 26" lcd,for them its still a ninche product.
how many indians dream of owning a tata nano.how many indians dream of owning even a bike.
lcd may be old,but they have a limit to how cheap then can get,sure they will get cheaper to the level of CRT one day.

when you say quality takes a hit..doesn't it mean the older ones were better?:lol:
you cannot compare the local grillmaker and a modern car which uses good quality steel. If you see older amby's most of them will have rust. But if you check a older alto or santro you will not find any rust.. and mind you alto and santro are cheaper than an amby.

can the older ones can be better why not,in terms of build quality.take for eg even in tvs i know the build quality of say a sony lcd tv made in 06 is better then the lcd made in 09.

well who said anything about ambys,for eg a old 87 gypsy vs newer 01 gypsy,which my friend has both are parked in the same house,the older ones still has no visible rust,the newer one has rusts,so are the quality of the components.
or like my great grand parents house gates located in hot place near vellore in TN,my newer gates at my parnents house located 50 feet away from my great grand parents house rusts,but not the older gates.

 

[adder]

I'm not saying car technolgy is Perfect. But it covers what is essential.

It can perform its duty as good as any other instrument or applliance for passenger travel which is similar or less priced.
Wheras an LCD cannot perform its duty of reproducing SD telecast as good as its lower priced sibling the CRT Tv.

so u agree that car tech isn't perfect,so u are fine if it takes u from A to B,a BMW or merc is very comfortable and can be quite fast on the national interstate highway,but take them in some village mud/stone roads its a different story or drive them in a crowded city ,u are mostly going to get from A to B the same time as a esteem or some other sedan.
but if u have good roads its going kick the but out of esteem.

so in the same way give a HD signal or even a high quality SD signal from DVD player or if u have time/space and money to buy a good FTA STB get the channels directly from channel providers in wide screen or at their native best without the compression that DTH apply and a lcd /plasma will no doubt look much better then old bulky,inefficient CRT.
in a crt ,u just don't see the defects of current transmission,due to the huge pitch size of the CRTs.they also suck in ANSI contrast,only good at FULL On/FULL Off contrast.
again when u adjust the picture/brightness in a crt to get the maximum shadow detail,u can't get the detail without making the whites looking really bright,which cause eye strain for many,i am not talking about some cheap crt,i am talking about sony and philips crts.

also when u are watching a CRT u are constanly reminded that u are watching in a tv,in HD lcd because of the incredible ANSI contrast,the realism is higher,the depth the 3D feel is higher,even if u play a HD video in a HD crt like sony KV-HR34M91 or KV-HZ29M85 wide screen crts sold in india ,its still doesn't look as good as flat panel tvs be it plasma or CRTs.
sure u can nit pick some cons like the news ticker in lcds,which BTW if u have seen todays lcds its much better or the phospor trail in plasma.
but overall the plasma and lcds are still much better.

sony the best in CRT business shut its CRT business for a good reason,simple reason is people started prefering the flat panel tvs,u are free to say is due to aesthetics ,i and many other here can say its because of PQ.
even if u ask the owners of XBR range like our KV-HR34M91 of crts ,most find the flat panels be it a lcd or a plasma better then that crt.

 

[nirrej]

for eg a old 87 gypsy vs newer 01 gypsy,which my friend has both are parked in the same house,the older ones still has no visible rust,the newer one has rusts,so are the quality of the components.

why use a vehicle(gypsy) as reference, when maruti themselves have forgotten the vehicle. ask any maruti dealer when was the last time he sold one? Check the VIN no for the date of maufacture of the gypsy you are referring to..it must have been maufactured a decade ago and lying in the dock for years before it was sold and registered as per the date of sale.

And regarding quality of components going down that is not true with the major car makers. Do you know how many computerised quality checks are performed on just the seat belt alone? just because the thickness of the steel has been reduced in modern cars doesnt mean quality has come down. They have better techniques like crumple zones, etc,etc to compensate for that.

 

[adder]

why use a vehicle(gypsy) as reference, when maruti themselves have forgotten the vehicle. ask any maruti dealer when was the last time he sold one? Check the VIN no for the date of maufacture of the gypsy you are referring to..it must have been maufactured a decade ago and lying in the dock for years before it was sold and registered as per the date of sale.

And regarding quality of components going down that is not true with the major car makers. Do you know how many computerised quality checks are performed on just the seat belt alone? just because the thickness of the steel has been reduced in modern cars doesnt mean quality has come down. They have better techniques like crumple zones, etc,etc to compensate for that.

well its going off topic,but to answer ur question a gypsy is made only when u order them,even a month ago a member in TBHP ordered a gypsy for about 6lakh it was made and delivered in 1 month.they still makes gypsy in the hundreds every month our armed forces/special forces still buy them.

 

[nirrej]

also when u are watching a CRT u are constanly reminded that u are watching in a tv,in HD lcd because of the incredible ANSI contrast,the realism is higher,the depth the 3D feel is higher,even if u play a HD video in a HD crt like sony KV-HR34M91 or KV-HZ29M85 wide screen crts sold in india ,its still doesn't look as good as flat panel tvs be it plasma or CRTs.

our comparsion is between the SD capability of LCD vs CRT.
for HD there is no doubt that LCD wins hands down.
what i've been saying is most of the people(98%) who buy an LCD
use it only for SD viewing and many dont even own a DTH connection.
I'm not talking about HIFIVISION members.
I know many people who spend 60 grand for a LCD but wont
spend 375 rs/ month for a DTH connection, and still use the local cable connection.
In such a scenario doesnt it make sense to buy a good CRT like Pana Tau or similar?

sony the best in CRT business shut its CRT business for a good reason,simple reason is people started prefering the flat panel tvs

Sony didn't stop producing CRTs because they dont sell. Even today CRTs outsell LCDs by a big margin. They stopped beacuse, otherwise people would still buy Sony CRTs and LCDs sales will not take off in a spectacular way. That is a business decision. All manufacturers do that when margins of old models come down. Even a good car like Getz is being buried, so that a new car like i20 which gives higher margins will sell.

 

[adder]

our comparsion is between the SD capability of LCD vs CRT.
for HD there is no doubt that LCD wins hands down.
what i've been saying is most of the people(98%) who buy an LCD
use it only for SD viewing and many dont even own a DTH connection.
I'm not talking about HIFIVISION members.
I know many people who spend 60 grand for a LCD but wont
spend 375 rs/ month for a DTH connection, and still use the local cable connection.
In such a scenario doesnt it make sense to buy a good CRT like Pana Tau or similar?

well thats upto the user,its a subjective reason,just because one owns a Lamborghini,doesn't mean he has to accelerate in less then 4 sec,he can use it for every day work,in speeds that are possible in city limits.it may guzzle a lot more fuel,be tougher to park or maneuver go above potholes,or pray that some doesn't scratch it,but thats his wish,by Ur logic he should buy a amby.
same way if he owns a lcd,its his wish

Sony didn't stop producing CRTs because they don't sell. Even today CRTs outsell LCDs by a big margin. They stopped beacuse, otherwise people would still buy Sony CRTs and LCDs sales will not take off in a spectacular way. That is a business decision. All manufacturers do that when margins of old models come down. Even a good car like Getz is being buried, so that a new car like i20 which gives higher margins will sell.

well sony stopped selling crts because it didn't sell globaly speaking,they were making hefty profits in crt business,but sony sales continued to drop in markets like US,japan due to flat panels.they even brought in wide screen HD crt that costed as much or higher then similar sized lcds but people didn't buy that,so what sony did was started selling rebadged plasma with some sony tech,they also started selling lcds.
.
again they were way behind in sales compared to other manufactures,it was only after a few years in 05 when they introduced the BRAVIA brand did it start to take off,the lcd tvs in 05 even though called BRAVIA had the VVega engine,slightly tweaked versions found in their crts.they took over the no 1 in sales crown from sharp in 06 when they introduced bravia lcd tvs with bravia engine.from then on the remaining factories in thailand made CRT for asian countries like MY,INDIA,china until 07,after which every sony CRT production facilities have been stopped.because their lcd outsell their crts.

please if u think sony is making profits in lcds u are so wrong,ever since sony moved to flat panel market they started making losses,since they are buying panels from other manufactures.
the head of sony flat panels did say that they will get even in 2010 and make profits after that,atleast thats what they are hoping for.

its really hard to make a name or to build that trust and performance superiority they had in crts,they lost the walkman image due to IPOD.so they aren't taking chances in tv business nor are they taking chances in playstation business,where again ps3 was or is still being sold under loss.

 

[psychotropic]

once again i ask you, so what is your point? people who cannot afford DTH and DVD, or are stupidy stingy, will buy 29" CRTs,.....very well....that is exactly what we are saying.....FPDs are considered to be premium products in India, and are inherently superior in almost every regard to CRTs.....therefore justifying (to the market) the price charged by the makers.....people being stingy or not watching better quality content does not change this in any way.

do you disagree with any of this?

our comparsion is between the SD capability of LCD vs CRT.
for HD there is no doubt that LCD wins hands down.
what i've been saying is most of the people(98%) who buy an LCD
use it only for SD viewing and many dont even own a DTH connection.
I'm not talking about HIFIVISION members.
I know many people who spend 60 grand for a LCD but wont
spend 375 rs/ month for a DTH connection, and still use the local cable connection.
In such a scenario doesnt it make sense to buy a good CRT like Pana Tau or similar?

Sony didn't stop producing CRTs because they dont sell. Even today CRTs outsell LCDs by a big margin. They stopped beacuse, otherwise people would still buy Sony CRTs and LCDs sales will not take off in a spectacular way. That is a business decision. All manufacturers do that when margins of old models come down. Even a good car like Getz is being buried, so that a new car like i20 which gives higher margins will sell.

 

[nirrej]

well sony stopped selling crts because it didn't sell globaly speaking,they were making hefty profits in crt business,but sony sales continued to drop in markets like US,japan due to flat panels.
in 06 when they introduced bravia lcd tvs with bravia engine.from then on the remaining factories in thailand made CRT for asian countries like MY,INDIA,china until 07,after which every sony CRT production facilities have been stopped.because their lcd outsell their crts.

MY INDIA and China account for a very huge market. One out of every 4 prospective buyers in this world is from this region. If they had wanted they could have still persisted with CRT manufacturing and made decent profits.
Look at Suzuki. They aren't doing well in Japan for the past 2 years, but they have made up for that by doing well in India. As on today 80% of thier profits is from India. India is too important a market for any MNC and if Sony had seen this earlier they woudn't have stopped CRTs. Last year Tamilnadu Gov alone bought nearly 20 million CRTs.
CRTs will never die beacuse its inferior. Already they have become 40% slimmer. they will remain even after 10 years as a niche product, like turntables. just like how a sound wave cannot be reproduced perfectly by digital media, light rays(moving pictures) cannot be reproduced as fluidly as CRT by a LCD..atleast in the sub 25" segment.
For the bigger segment it will be projectors. already Full HD projectors are available for 60k..and these projectors can display at very flexible sizes from 30" to 300" and the thrill and realism of watching through a projector can never be matched by a LCD

a gypsy is made only when u order them,even a month ago a member in TBHP ordered a gypsy for about 6lakh it was made and delivered in 1 month.they still makes gypsy in the hundreds every month our armed forces/special forces still buy them.

Only Rolls-Royce and cars in that price level are made on a made-to-order basis. Army doesnt buy Gypsies every month. They place bulk orders for say 2000 or 3000 gypsies once in a couple of years or so. The 1 month waiting period for your friend is not for manufacturing a new Gypsy, but for assembling an already made one and transporting to which itself takes around 10 days.

 

[nirrej]

once again i ask you, so what is your point?

My point is people(not Hifivision members) are being misled into buying a LCD,
when their requirement is not that.
and some companies have gone to extreme levels of cheating..to impress customers. Recently went to a AV expo. The first stall displayed a 42" inch LCD by a leading brand. they were playing a slow motion clip of an outdoor sporting activity. The picture quality was unbeliveably great..
For anyone with no prior knowledge of what it is, will be floored.
Its actually not at all a video clip. Its a artificial clip created by using hundreds of digital still cameras shot at very high resolution and joined painstakingly. these hig-res Photographs combine together to create an unbelievable clarity.
(the TV commercials for bajaj XCD also use the same technique for close up shots of their tyre and chain spoke..if you had noticed)

isnt the same thing Bose is doing with audio products and everybody in this forum loathes Bose for it..but we praise these LCD guys.

 

[appuchan]

There are multiple factors that determine the price of a flat panel TV or for that matter any product. Some are capital costs, cost of raw material, labour cost, assembling cost, marketing costs and of course shipping costs. Add to this dealer margins and other stuff. Unfortunately we dont have any LCD/Plasma plants in India yet. So everything needs to be imported which adds up a lot in final price along with the duty rates.

I am sure rates will come down once we have more sales and plants setup in India. Look at what is happening for mobile phones. Now we get mobiles phones at one of the cheapest rates here.

I do not accept that these products are costly only in India. I was in Birmingham UK for about 3 weeks recently and found the pricing of TVs and most electronics much similar to what we get here in discount stores such as Currys Digital and John Lewis.

For example the 42G10 was priced at about 849 GBP after Xmas discount. Similar prices for most of other items. I am sure in US we will get better prices. But that is because of the market dynamics there and tax structure.

 

[venkatcr]

Recently went to a AV expo. The first stall displayed a 42" inch LCD by a leading brand. they were playing a slow motion clip of an outdoor sporting activity. The picture quality was unbeliveably great..
For anyone with no prior knowledge of what it is, will be floored.
Its actually not at all a video clip. Its a artificial clip created by using hundreds of digital still cameras shot at very high resolution and joined painstakingly. these hig-res Photographs combine together to create an unbelievable clarity.

All demos will use the best possible material as the humans take a few seconds to approve or reject a product mentally. But then you don't base your buying decision on that. You take your own DVD, and watch a movie that you are familiar with, at the least. You see multiple TV transmission, compare a few TVs and so on.

Please understand one thing. Though I kind of get what you are trying to say, a CRT is basically an analog device that uses interlacing to display an image. This was an inherent fault in the system and has been recognised as that for over 30 years. The human eye is more tuned towards progressive scanning such as those shown in a cinema hall. But given the level of technology when CRT was invented, that was the best we could do. A CRT can never display a progressively scanned image, and that is one of the main reasons why the switch to digital displays are happening. In many places (such as the US), even TV stations have switched over to complete digital transmission. In the US, for example, you cannot use a CRT or any analog video device any more as there are no analog signals at all.

Secondly, as I had explained in another post, the conversion from reel film to digital format is exactly the same way you explained about the ad. Each film frame is snapped as an individual snap, cleaned, and run in sequence to create a motion. So if you get your hands on a good movie, you will get the same clarity. If you see a Blu-Ray movie on even a 32 inch TV, you will change your mind.

An analog CRT with it's inherent flaws can never come close to the accuracy and precision of a digital TV. You think you see pictures better in a CRT because of the small size, and possible flaws in the media. But if you take a good movie, scale it properly and display it on a digital TV, it will be far better than a CRT.

As far as transmission in India goes, the companies have to move to higher formats and digital transmission as quickly as possible. When that happens (it is only a question of when), all your CRTs have to be thrown out.

Switch to a new technology always has it's nay and yays. It also has a few hiccups on the way. How much ever you agree or disagree, the switch is inevitable.

BTW, about the TN Government's TVs. Do you know that it was a huge political stunt, and every person who got one is really trying to sell it off as he or she already has a better TV at home? I am not even sure it was colour, though I could be wrong. None of the branded companies were ready to touch the project inspite of the size, and it was finally manufactured by a host of small companies that had to take a huge beating on technology and quality because of the price per piece the government was ready to pay. The maid who comes to my house got one and I jokingly asked her if she will sell it to me. She took me seriously and started bargaining and was desperate enough to accept even Rs.1000 for it.

Cheers

 

[adder]

MY INDIA and China account for a very huge market. One out of every 4 prospective buyers in this world is from this region. If they had wanted they could have still persisted with CRT manufacturing and made decent profits.
Look at Suzuki. They aren't doing well in Japan for the past 2 years, but they have made up for that by doing well in India. As on today 80% of their profits is from India. India is too important a market for any MNC and if Sony had seen this earlier they woudn't have stopped CRTs. Last year Tamilnadu Gov alone bought nearly 20 million CRTs.
CRTs will never die beacuse its inferior. Already they have become 40% slimmer. they will remain even after 10 years as a niche product, like turntables. just like how a sound wave cannot be reproduced perfectly by digital media, light rays(moving pictures) cannot be reproduced as fluidly as CRT by a LCD..atleast in the sub 25" segment.
For the bigger segment it will be projectors. already Full HD projectors are available for 60k..and these projectors can display at very flexible sizes from 30" to 300" and the thrill and realism of watching through a projector can never be matched by a LCD

well their are various reason why sony and many others choose to go the flat panel way,shipping a LCD is cheaper.even in the grey market were huge amount of sony CRT sell were extinct in 07.
well india and china are different from the US,many indians keep a product until it goes kaput,where as in the US they buy it even when their crt is less then a year old.
regarding Sony India CRT business ,well tell me which sony crt was available in 37" and above.also do u think a company which was heavily pushing BLU-RAY and ps3 HD gaming would suggest u to buy a crt to enjoy HD.their is a reason why sony never made CRT above 34" or 36" since even their best crts at those sizes suffered from geomentry issues,needs expensive circuitry,making a sony HD crt picture tube with super fine pitch is expensive like i said it was priced more then lcds.

regarding lcds well their are many new lcd tech like sharps UV2A and samsung bluephase which have much much better motion,in micro seconds vs milli seconds of current lcd which have no blur,even without using frame insertion tech.with contrast ratios that crt can only dream off.

projectors will stay thanks to LED,but not everyone would want to watch in a projector,due to obvious reasons like lighting conditions,contrast,etc
i for one don't fancy really huge displays,their is a limit to how big i want my tv viewing to be which can be due to living room limitations or the fact that i don't want to move my eyes from one corner to another etc.
also OLED will be next big thing,foldable type,just like u would fold the projector screen.
no other display that i know in the market can currently match the OLED for its incredible contrast.
so u can't say for sure which technology will be in 10years .

Only Rolls-Royce and cars in that price level are made on a made-to-order basis. Army doesn't buy Gypsies every month. They place bulk orders for say 2000 or 3000 gypsies once in a couple of years or so. The 1 month waiting period for your friend is not for manufacturing a new Gypsy, but for assembling an already made one and transporting to which itself takes around 10 days.

well my friend works at a maruthi dealer,what he says is maruthi takes a few hundred orders and make them hence the waiting,they make them every 2months.don't forget its not only the army that uses gypsy,the navy and airforce also uses them.
there are thousands of gypsies in our armed forced which are quite old,so they all need to be replaced with newer ones.well yes they do assemble them according to the specs usually available in white,some with army colors interior wise .the person in team BHP ordered a shiny RED upon ordering.
my friend wanted a hard top for his gypsy the service centre said he has to wait for 2 months ,just to get a hard top,which will be made.

 

[BLASTO]

Guys, can we stop talking about cars and stick to topic?
This is a bad analogy at best!

 

[psychotropic]

hey nirrej, all video is made of sequences of frames, which are akin to still pictures, so i don't know how you can refer to the technieque you described as "cheating"....how is this cheating? how does this unfairly portray the 42" LCD in a superior light as opposed to (say) playing a high definition 1080p video signal from a blu-ray player? Or would you call playing a high resolution video clip from a blu-ray player also 'cheating' ? it's not cheating to show off the extremes of your product's abilities. This is like saying that while demo-ing a Ferrari, the chappie drove it at 200 km/h on a test track, you can't realistically reach those speeds on Chennai roads, and so it is 'cheating.'

It really looks like you've picked a position and are sticking to it in spite of many of your reasons being shown to be incorrect. I do agree that it is wrong to show people a 1080p image and convey to them that this is how Tata Sky will look on the screen, but almost every electronics retailer i go to has DTH feeds in addition to the HD box feeds to demo the TVs, so this kind of 'cheating' is not really a common practice, as far as I can see. The people who buy FPDs in spite of only needing to watch DTH, buy it for reasons including (a) size, (b) wall-mountability, (c) prestige/status ad (d) all the people with money are doing it!! Now if people are buynig FPDs for these reasons, you can't blame the FPD makers for it, it's at the end of the day the consumer's choice.

I would imagine that there are very very few people who buy an FPD expecting pristine 1080p type images from their DTH, but since neither of us have any empirical data on this, it's not worthwhile to speculate.

The difference with Bose is that Bose makes inferior products, and puts up a demo using a lot of smoke and mirrors and high end back-end equipment to mislead consumers. The FPD makers make genuinely gorgeous displays and do not hesitate to show off everything these displays are capable of. Showing HD images does not equate to Bose-ery because even a consumer can buy a WDTV for 7000 bucks and see HD images on his own FPD and be floored Come on Nirrej.....let's break out of this suspicion and mistrust of FPDs and revel in the glory of high definition video . Let not those who buy FPDs for the wrong reasons lead you to criticise FPDs or their manufacturers.

I genuinely urge you to consider what I am saying not as an argument but as a discussion among friends and perhaps re-evaluate your closely held beliefs with regard to FPDs being inferior to CRTs, and FPD makers somehow cheating, or misleading the consumers, because I think it's been amply demonstrated that these beliefs have no factual basis.

And yes, watch this on a high definition display if you can, and tell me if you think it amounts to cheating

YouTube - 'Alice in Wonderland' Trailer 5

My point is people(not Hifivision members) are being misled into buying a LCD,
when their requirement is not that.
and some companies have gone to extreme levels of cheating..to impress customers. Recently went to a AV expo. The first stall displayed a 42" inch LCD by a leading brand. they were playing a slow motion clip of an outdoor sporting activity. The picture quality was unbeliveably great..
For anyone with no prior knowledge of what it is, will be floored.
Its actually not at all a video clip. Its a artificial clip created by using hundreds of digital still cameras shot at very high resolution and joined painstakingly. these hig-res Photographs combine together to create an unbelievable clarity.
(the TV commercials for bajaj XCD also use the same technique for close up shots of their tyre and chain spoke..if you had noticed)

isnt the same thing Bose is doing with audio products and everybody in this forum loathes Bose for it..but we praise these LCD guys.

 

[KonfuSed]

there r chinese dragons lurching in the shadow:yahoo: to take on these companys,Eg : TCL,Haier,Konka etc. so there is no point in forming a league and bully the customer.Cheap LCDs will be the rule of the day down 5 yrs belive me either sony will be bankrupt or merge with other company. They r strugling to keep in race only with the sony logo?? where is their AIWA brand?? already shutdown!! Quality everyone knows there is no much difference like olden days?? And u know whatever the sony sells in 3rd world is chinese make??

Having seen some of those Chinese proiduct (not talking about the branded one's that are made in China in their outsourced factory and mind you they are not as cheap as you claiming them to be) and their quality I can safely assume that they'll be extinct soon like that Chinese dragon of yours. Quality is probably the last word that those copy-cat Chinese companies care about.. So instead of buying a LCD tv for 15k rs and again to buy another one in next 6months or may be a year max, I would rather buy one for 50k which will surely last for 5 years. Got the point?

And BTW, please don't compare the branded manufactured product from china with those cheap imitations. The branded one's still goes through strict QC, be it China or taiwan or other place. There is a day and light difference between them and those duplicate vendors.

And BTW, don't mind, but I was going through some of your earlier posts. Although they are funny at times, you seem to be almost always in an attacking mood. Chill dude, take it easy.

 

[adder]

Hi Good in math sony no more commands electronics its a old story. Now the so called old lions r roping in new tigers like samsung to join their club and make common programme and loot the consumer its all over now. there r chinese dragons lurching in the shadow:yahoo: to take on these companys,Eg : TCL,Haier,Konka etc. so there is no point in forming a league and bully the customer.Cheap LCDs will be the rule of the day down 5 yrs belive me either sony will be bankrupt or merge with other company. They r strugling to keep in race only with the sony logo?? where is their AIWA brand?? already shutdown!! Quality everyone knows there is no much difference like olden days?? And u know whatever the sony sells in 3rd world is chinese make??

well if u like the chinese haier u go buy that,but if u are trying to compare a third tier lcd manufacturer to a first tier,well my friend there are lots of difference in quality both build and PQ.
cheap crts were their before flat panels, did cheap crt topple big companies like sony,philips,etc.they didn't.

again in mobile phones cheap mobiles with big touch screen and what not are available,but do u think it can topple big companies like nokia,SE.motorola .they don't.

just like that in tvs,big companies always keep a tech edge again cheap chinese brands.
again sure chinese companies may become better then japenese or european companies,one day.but just because its made in china doesn't mean its crap quality,todays most indians would have some or the other stuff which was made in china or with chinese components.
BTW made in Mexico sony crt were the leaders in sales and PQ in the USA.so it doesn't matter where its made in todays globalization.