Why colored music is preferred over neutral / natural sound

[Santy]

I think you have a contradiction here. When you are in any way altering the sound (in this case the frequency domain) it cannot be called natural. Which brings up the (already discussed) point of "What is neutral". Obviously there is something in your mind that you are calling neutral. Problem is that the same identical sound may not appear neutral to another person. The act of altering sound with DSP itself shows that in the end we tend to adjust or color the sound as per our taste.

I understand that by the word 'natural' you mean the sound is simply amplified. I am talking about what we hear. When the sound that is produced is 100% similar to the originally recorded sound, we can say its natural sound. You are referring to the process I am talking about the result.

You are saying that DSP is coloring the sound. Sorry to disagree. DSP (in my context, i.e Genelac) is not meant to adjust the sound to suit our taste. A parametric equalizer is enough if that is what we want. I am talking about 'correcting' the sound (thanks Thad) so that the original sound is achieved irrespective of the factors which tend to disturb it. So what you get is uncolored sound.

 

[panditji]

Accurate sound can only be heard and measured by "accurate" ears as well which need to be absolutely sterile as the dirt may add colour to the sound making the sound more black and darker..... also the ear drums should be perfect with just the right amount of burn in.....

How can anyone miss this point????

 

[Santy]

^^

More reasons why the sound may not be 'accurate'.

Altitude from sea level can affect the way sound is heard due to lower pressure on your ear canal.

I also have read that even weather conditions can affect the sound.

What the heck, at night you feel the sound is more pleasing and enjoyable so light should also be a parameter affecting how sound is perceived.

One more snippet (I posted this when I was too new to this forum). Close your nose and mouth, and try blowing air through the nose, then swallow the air. Your ears will 'open-up' albeit briefly.

Finally, how would you know at what volume you must play the music, so that you hear the instruments exactly at the same decibels as it was when they were played?

 

[arj]

^^

..What the heck, at night you feel the sound is more pleasing and enjoyable so light should also be a parameter affecting how sound is perceived.

About the above, this is because the Power is much cleaner in the night as consumption by active devices (Industrial Motors et al) you get the right Freq and waveform during the night.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Anyone heard of house cross-overs or curves, read the article below to know the height of introducing coloration or maybe not ....

House curve: What it is, why you need it, how to do it! - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 

[Hiten]

Now tell me how to create a perfectly flat music

A recorded music can be of worst quality or superbly mastered and one who hears it may have golden ears or tin ears. An audio systems purpose is to amplify the given input most accurately to bring listener closer to realism as much as possible, that's why this hobby called high fidelity. A little exaggerated point would be, it would be a sin to seek for an amp which produces more bass than the original. Transparency is not an easy thing to achieve across the system, which makes this hobby worth exploring. Audio nirvana is a mirage one would never reach.
Regards
The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat-Confucius.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

How do you know that the thickness of the bottom of pot doesn't "colour" the food?:lol:

My Italian restaurant question: "Wood-fired pizza ovens? It's all heat, what do I care what fuel is used?" hyeah:

OT, but food for thought - if 2 [or more] of us are listening to the same music, how do I know that what I hear is the same as what you [or others] hear? And vice versa. How does one measure ones ears? Or brain.

With an audiogram

Well, ok, I know that isn't a real answer, but, assuming non-perfect hearing, it goes some way to get one's personal curve (head curve inside the room curve?).

There's a point at which music becomes utterly subjective, and if there wasn't, there would be no point in listening to it but --- if one really wants to know if what is coming out of the speakers equates to the source, then it can be measured, which is what those room-correction systems do in a moment or two! Taking the mentioned example, which is also the only one I happen to have seen, the Genelec control software, having made that measurement and applied correcting factors, is infinitely manually tweakable, so it is not imposing any perception (right or wrong) of perfection on us. You want to warm up your music, having corrected it for room/listening-position? You can have it!

(oh, yes, I'm a bit of a Genelec fanboy, as might have been noticed )

Even live shows or the source are coloured in the sense that the sound engineers actually boost or attenutate either the vocals, lead or the base or the drums,etc as as per their needs. I believe only a "true" unplugged instrument and vocals play will portray an uncoloured sound to reproduce.

I've said before... I really would not want my hifi to sound like most of the concerts that I attend :sad: !

Accurate sound can only be heard and measured by "accurate" ears as well which need to be absolutely sterile as the dirt may add colour to the sound making the sound more black and darker..... also the ear drums should be perfect with just the right amount of burn in.....

How can anyone miss this point????

Ahhh... that eardrum burn-in. Believe me, you do not want it!

 

[asliarun]

On the other hand, when I eat fish (at least, white fish) then I go for neutral and lack of colouration. I check the response curves with the fish seller (well, to be honest, she is a bit too old for curve checking ) and take care not to introduce colouration when cooking

To continue this analogy (and it is making me hungry!), you are at least doing one of the below, I presume:
1. Removing certain parts of the fish
2. Cooking the fish - grilling or baking or pan frying or deep frying or poaching
3. Adding salt
4. Adding pepper or lemon or any other condiment

I would argue that to be that pure about food or music is to be a bear - wait in a stream for salmon to fly into your mouth, and eat it then and there. Anything else is coloration or customization or modification of the source. Even the Japanese serve you sashimi with some other condiments to enhance the flavor and texture of the fish.

For what it is worth, the reason this has become such a contentious topic is because audio, for some reason, is notorious for losing its fidelity and getting unwanted coloration added to it in the multiple phases of its life-cycle. However, IMHO, beyond a certain point, we are really talking about personal preference and not original purity/fidelity of sound. What that *point* is a very personal choice of course, largely driven by personal preference and budget.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

1. Removing certain parts of the fish Yes... Sampling... i remove the head and bones!
2. Cooking the fish - grilling or baking or pan frying or deep frying or poaching Yes/No I usually shallow-fry it in a little butter: some flavour gets added. Sometimes poach it, which is very pure!
3. Adding salt No
4. Adding pepper or lemon or any other condiment No Not in the cooking, though I apply a plate-correction curve

But our analogy goes so far only, because when we cook, we are part of the creative process, taking a hand at the level of the studio, or even musician. We do not seek to eat our fish in the same form/flavour as a shark would. Making and eating sushi and sashimi is a very creative process . I am making roast chicken at the moment: the gravy is going to be heavy with garlic!

 

[asliarun]

1. Removing certain parts of the fish Yes... Sampling... i remove the head and bones!
2. Cooking the fish - grilling or baking or pan frying or deep frying or poaching Yes/No I usually shallow-fry it in a little butter: some flavour gets added. Sometimes poach it, which is very pure!
3. Adding salt No
4. Adding pepper or lemon or any other condiment No Not in the cooking, though I apply a plate-correction curve

Reminds me of single driver speakers without crossovers!

 

[hemantwaghe]

Is that coloration or you are seeing it plain?
are you the lens --or are you the prism? ( what is this? I don't know?)hyeah:hyeah::clapping:

Remember -
there is no dark side in the moon, really. As a matter of fact it's all dark

From DSOTM ............

 

[Santy]

OK people. Can we stop cooking and start painting (err. I mean coloring)

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

lol, I'm sort-of hoping for the horn-speaker experience when I eat my roast chicken in about 20 minutes!

<LATER>

It was a moderately transparent meal. Of course, with DIY, one has to try many times before getting it right, and even then, things can go wrong. The gravy tones were thick, but not smooth at all.

 

[ynotbubba]

Here is an example to two types of coloured sound.:lol:

Pick Yours

 

[arj]

lol, I'm sort-of hoping for the horn-speaker experience when I eat my roast chicken in about 20 minutes!

<LATER>

It was a moderately transparent meal. Of course, with DIY, one has to try many times before getting it right, and even then, things can go wrong. The gravy tones were thick, but not smooth at all.

to tighten the lower end you need to sit on 3 cones

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

That sounds very uncomfortable! :lol:

 

[kGr99]

I totally lost it after a couple of pages in this thread but sushi and sashimi brought me back on track

I always have a good read here, keep going guys, everyone. It is so much fun to learn new things in hifivision.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Digging in one of my old post to know the current situation after more listening and experimenting.

IME, layman who listened my recent speakers (Meteronome) feel they are bland, no exaggerated lows, mids and highs. Just like someone singing in the room standing in front of you. Music as though they are been played only for you. To summarize just plain bland. Guys ask me where is the boom, i am looking for some kick here. Where are the sharp and ear piercing highs. And i look at them amazed. So for a layman who is exposed to coloured music will still continue to like them and real time performance very boring.

My wife is a carnatic vocalist and she sings on a weekend evening just for relaxing. I also enjoy the real time vocal music and try to sync my speaker design vocals for similar sound stage. But again recorded music do have some colour even if they are audiophile recordings. I dont know of any speakers which i have heard till date which can match a real time un-amplified performance. Educate me.

 

[arj]

.. I dont know of any speakers which i have heard till date which can match a real time un-amplified performance. Educate me.

None can and they all try to.
It is about how close they can get to it ... and even for the best they are quite far

Live unamplified is reference level . Just that it is unachievable eg - pink Floyd doubt if we will never hear it live + unamplified so will have to make do

But for those who are able to for their music , others can only envy



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[music4mhell]

Nothing is natural or neutral sound in this world,

it all depends upon:

>DAC
>Cable
>Monitors etc etc