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Why people like tube gear-interesting thread

Wharfedale EVO4.4 Speaker

moktan

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However, tubed pres with a solid state amp would be a killer combo if paired right.

sir,
are their any pointers on how to get this combination right?? can such a happy marriage be achieved by pairing tube pres with the power amp section of an integrated amp?
thank you very much...
 

suri

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sir,
are their any pointers on how to get this combination right?? can such a happy marriage be achieved by pairing tube pres with the power amp section of an integrated amp?
thank you very much...

hi moktan,

i cannot help but comment -

that marriage is like a marriage between a vacuous female and a solid intelligent male of the human species! - will not last, and the male will seek the company of a solid female - difficult to find such females though - most are vacuous idiots:)
 

moktan

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hi moktan,

i cannot help but comment -

that marriage is like a marriage between a vacuous female and a solid intelligent male of the human species! - will not last, and the male will seek the company of a solid female - difficult to find such females though - most are vacuous idiots:)


mid-ranged misogynists of the world unite you have nothing to lose but your metaphors ...
 

viren bakhshi

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Hi Cranky,

You've got to expand your horizons a bit, Cranky:)

Listen to some good tube based SYSTEMS, where speakers and amp complement each other. You might revise your opinions.

There is no universal amplifier, tube or solid state. Synergy, and good sound, happens when components are matched in a system. Then, there are no arguments about lack of power, rolloff of highs, bass control. Music just happens.

I've heard many a 3-watt tube based system that sounds more dynamic than a 100-watt monster amp based system.

And, a tube pre with a soild state power amp, is still a half-way house, in my opinion!

Regards,
Viren
 

prem

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Hi Cranky

The First Watt F5 is an outstanding amp. Try the Wyred 4Sound Pre with it. Truly rocks. Thats the combo i was going to go with for my Rethm Saadhanas. But then Jacob developed his own tube amp and thats what i have today. The F5 needs a long break in. Give it time. The F5 is superior to any tube amp that i have heard. The Yamamoto probably being an exception but again i have not heard them together.
 

viren bakhshi

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Hi Cranky,

The challenge would be to do that at a price most Indians could afford!

Regards,
Viren
 

sidvee

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I OTOH have always preferred tube systems - throughout the chain - from the past 20 years. My listening preference has almost always been the golden period of jazz with preference to trumpets and saxophone, and I find that these sound beguiling through tube gear. I always have had a decent solid-state system as well but feel myself drifting back to tubes for serious listening. System matching is an important issue though - especially tube pres with ss amps. I also feel that tube vs solid state is more of a personal subjective preference than an objective one. Tube gear - especially amps - are not known to have stellar measurement on the test bench.
Cheers
Sid
 

GeorgeO

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Personally, having switched to valve gear a few years ago, I have put my AKSA solid state power amp( with Nirvana upgrade) into cold storage for the past 3 years- the one time i tried it without using my valve preamp, I found it a bit difficult to listen to it for long. I plan to dust it out and reconnect it this week, using my Grounded Grid preamp for the upcoming Bangalore meet, next weekend and hopefully I wont put it back into cold storage!

My 2 cents.

George
 

sachi

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Great thread topic George.

Having been a fan of Solid state and being dismissive of all tube gear for the majority of the first few years in this hobby, I am a complete convert to tubes, well more specifically into Hybrids.

I do find full tube gear to be too warm and sweet to my ears, lacking the bottom end punch that very few tube amps manage to have.
Hybrids have struck a chord in me in finding the right balance by drawing the best of both worlds.
I alternate between the 3 Cavalli Audio amps I have built, and you guessed it, they are all hybrids. The Compact tube hybrid (CTH) which is a pint sized power house..very unassuming to the eye but a perfect amp for an office setup. Uses a single dual triode (i personally use an RCA 6CG7 cleartop) for the front end and a simple bt powerful solid state buffer for the output stage.

The EHHA, embedded hybrid headphone amplifier, a fully DC coupled transconductance amplifier with great current driving abilities, the most powerful of the amps I have in my possession. A step up from the CTH. I run a pair of 6H30P-DR supertubes for the input stage and IRF MOSFETs for the output stage.

And the stacker headphone amp/preamp, another hybrid amp, the best of the lot by far. This beast is magical in every sense and is the best headphone amp I have heard thus far in any price range. Again run a pair of RCA cleartops in this but has great tube rolling oportunities, both noval and octal (6SN7, 12SN7, 12Sn7, 6F8G, etc).

On a side note..going to get the opportunity to listen to this next week at the local stereo shop.
Reference 610T Monaural Vacuum Tube Amplifier by Audio Research

Going to be epic ;)
 

heliumflight

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Hello Friends,

I too would like to share my 2 cents.

I'm also a reconvert to tube gear. Having a Bryston SS for a long time I just recently switched to tha magic of the 2A3's.

I felt that there is realism in music lies in the micro detail. In the capturing of the rise and fall of notes, of the harmonics, and their relationship to each other.You needn't try to understand the instrument being played as the tones had depth and weight behind.

The first thing I noticed as a strength was the sound of drums in recordings. They had life. Kick drums were full bodied. Cymbals were also more natural unlike like a wood stick hitting metal in SS. Saxophones sound like themselves, The Piano gives a dramatic attack to the tone which gave a grand feeling, The trumpet was not at all squeaky. There was defination to everything which was missing in the past.

From this it become evident to me that what good was it to have amplitude, power amplifiers, exteneded bass, low frequency, midrange, airy trebles, etc...when you take way the life from the music.


--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4
Source: LG DVD + Beresford DAC
Cables: Lyrita's I.C & cables
 

heliumflight

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One's on Expressions may not reflect or convey the message. Similarliy technically or specification to look at may be very pleasing to look at and which may lead to believe that this is the missing piece in the jigsaw puzzle- chain of electronic equpiment, but may prove a misfit...
 

ajinkya

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I still believe that to each his own, and personal preferences will always take preference to attaining real musical enjoyment - the goal of reaching a live performance recreation in the living room.

Cranky,
The goal of recreating the actual live event through two speakers is a physically impossible one, for various reasons. The best we can hope for is a copy of the front soundstage. And I did not understand why personal preferences not the same thing as achieving "real" musical enjoyment? If one does not hear the music the way one wants to, where is the enjoyment for the listener?

-Ajinkya.
 

odyssey

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Cranky,
The goal of recreating the actual live event through two speakers is a physically impossible one, for various reasons. The best we can hope for is a copy of the front soundstage. And I did not understand why personal preferences not the same thing as achieving "real" musical enjoyment? If one does not hear the music the way one wants to, where is the enjoyment for the listener?

-Ajinkya.

I dont think Cranky is referring to creation of the soundstage as much as creation of the original event in terms of tone/timbre/details. Let me put it another way, when we go to a concert where in powered/active systems are used (not unplugged) we listen to pro systems and pro speakers. How many of us will like to listen to the same event in our home with a pro system/speaker? For the musicians on this forum, this will be something they experience regularly and they may miss this "truth". For most of us, you are right that we have our own version of the musical truth and thats what we look for.

cheers
Sridhar
 

sachi

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I dont think Cranky is referring to creation of the soundstage as much as creation of the original event in terms of tone/timbre/details. Let me put it another way, when we go to a concert where in powered/active systems are used (not unplugged) we listen to pro systems and pro speakers. How many of us will like to listen to the same event in our home with a pro system/speaker? For the musicians on this forum, this will be something they experience regularly and they may miss this "truth". For most of us, you are right that we have our own version of the musical truth and thats what we look for.

cheers
Sridhar

QFT

Couldn't have said it better. There have been times when the band i love sounded like crap on a live show but just awesome on my home setup listening to a studio recorded version. example: Nada Surf, The Old 97s

Even ones from recorded live albums to witnessing it live was different to me. I preferred the recoded versions at times. Example, My Morning Jacket

There have been instances where i felt the opposite too however. For example when i went to a Xavier Rudd or to a M Ward concert.
 

myriad

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Hello Folks,
I have attended very few live concerts. In my observation ( i may be wrong) whatever i have heard is unnatural sound.
I have attended couple of concerts by Shakti and a concert by Jethro Tull and very recently a concert by Zakir Husain, Sivamani, U Srinivas, Selvaganesh & Mahadevan. My observation is more with amplified and unamplified sound of the same instruments. I found all the instruments played viz. tabla, drums, guitars, percussion, madolin etc had less body and more high frequency emphasis in their sound. In fact a two hour Jethro Tull concert made my ear bleed. My take is whatever live amplified music we hear is mostly unnatural.
Regards
Vasu
 

jaudere

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Hello Folks,
I have attended very few live concerts. In my observation ( i may be wrong) whatever i have heard is unnatural sound.
I have attended couple of concerts by Shakti and a concert by Jethro Tull and very recently a concert by Zakir Husain, Sivamani, U Srinivas, Selvaganesh & Mahadevan. My observation is more with amplified and unamplified sound of the same instruments. I found all the instruments played viz. tabla, drums, guitars, percussion, madolin etc had less body and more high frequency emphasis in their sound. In fact a two hour Jethro Tull concert made my ear bleed. My take is whatever live amplified music we hear is mostly unnatural.
Regards
Vasu

I agree. In fact if we want to compare the sound produced by music system with real sound, we must listen to instrument without amplifier. Now this is possible with acoustic guitar, percussion instruments and all the instruments with sound box.But how an eletcric guitar have /synthesizer will have its own sound? it will always be coloured by the amplifier (which is mandatory for these instruments).

I have always liked the studio recorded versions. the concert is there for being the part of the atmosphere. to replicate that atmosphere, you need ,not only the sound but the crowd/timing/"maahol"/mood/company etc etc
 
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