Why Power is costly?

[Santy]

I was always wondering. When it comes to integrated amplifiers, many companies offer a range of products in a series, the major or only difference being the power rating. But the cost difference is huge even for minor increments in power handling capabilities. A 50 W amp costs X and the same model of 75 W costs 2X while a 100W might cost 3X!!. Am I wrong if I think 90% of the components inside would remain the same?

So what exactly is changing in the upper models and why they are so expensive compared to their little brothers? Is that many other components barring the power amp section are also made of better quality? In other words, at the same decibels, does the more expensive ones give a better quality that justifies the cost difference? My query again, what exactly changes?

 

[Hari Iyer]

I was always wondering. When it comes to integrated amplifiers, many companies offer a range of products in a series, the major or only difference being the power rating. But the cost difference is huge even for minor increments in power handling capabilities. A 50 W amp costs X and the same model of 75 W costs 2X while a 100W might cost 3X!!. Am I wrong if I think 90% of the components inside would remain the same?

So what exactly is changing in the upper models and why they are so expensive compared to their little brothers? Is that many other components barring the power amp section are also made of better quality? In other words, at the same decibels, does the more expensive ones give a better quality that justifies the cost difference? My query again, what exactly changes?

Not all componets will be same with increase in power. Some of the components that can change will be higher current transformers, higher voltage capacitors, higher wattage reistors, higher rating transistors, heat sinks to handle more current etc. Also the typical circuit for quisent current in the power stage will be different from the lower powered one. Some of the common circuits will be in the pre-amplifier stage where nothing might change. These higher power ratings cost a little more than the lower powered one, but i do agree the cost increase is not very substancial unless for a few components here and there.

Cheers,

 

[jls001]

I was always wondering. When it comes to integrated amplifiers, many companies offer a range of products in a series, the major or only difference being the power rating. But the cost difference is huge even for minor increments in power handling capabilities. A 50 W amp costs X and the same model of 75 W costs 2X while a 100W might cost 3X!!. Am I wrong if I think 90% of the components inside would remain the same?

So what exactly is changing in the upper models and why they are so expensive compared to their little brothers? Is that many other components barring the power amp section are also made of better quality? In other words, at the same decibels, does the more expensive ones give a better quality that justifies the cost difference? My query again, what exactly changes?

Sorry, I can't give you a coherent or intelligent answer except some guesses but I must tell you I really admire the neat organisation of your signature

As an aside, one must remember that the next significant step-up in power from 50Watt is double the power at 100W, as 100W will produce twice the loudness (assuming of course that the speaker is also perfectly, or at least near linear). You will be able to feel what I mean if you use a pre-amp or an integrated amp that has volume calibrated in dBs. The next significant step up (or down) for the human ear is 3 dB change in SPL, which is twice (or half) the power. But to go from 50W to 100W, the power consumed would likely be not twice but >2, mainly because active and passive components are not linear in their output/input characteristics wrt power consumed. In other words, their power efficiency is not linear. So some of the components that contribute to the increased power also need to be rated at >2 or better. That should jack up cost significantly, as components with higher ratings always cost more. And more power needs better cooling, again translating to more cost. And the marketing men will have to extract their pound of flesh too (higher wattage = better amp, at least in their books), adding further to the buyer's cost.

So, one should ask oneself, is higher power better? Yes, and no.

Yes, if one wants more power to drive speakers louder, especially in larger listening rooms. Yes, too, as higher rated amps will have more linear range so chances of distortion are lower. Higher linear range also equates to more relaxed operation, much like a muscle car being more relaxed than an econohatch at the same load and speed. Yes, again, as higher power gives one a pedestal to stand proud in the power stakes. How important is this point will vary from person to person

No, if loudness is not a concern. No, if higher wattage amp doesn't translate to better amp (by the usual metrics). No, too, if socio-power stakes are not important in life

All wild guesses and my opinions, though:lol:

 

[freshseasons]

Its like a difference between 2 cars.
A car that does 0 to 100 kms in 6 secs is almost three times costly than one that takes 10 secs.The difference could be 4 secs but per sec difference in cars could double the cost. Yes the doors, the wind shields ,the wheeles are mostly same .The engine is lot different.

 

[Hiten]

As an aside, one must remember that the next significant step-up in power from 50Watt is double the power at 100W, as 100W will produce twice the loudness

No Bro. It will only produce 1.23 times loudness.
The Relationship of Voltage, Loudness, Power and Decibels

Regarding high power amps costing more as Hari said not all component will be same and if market demand for powerful amp is comparatively low it would also affect the price.
Regards

 

[reubensm]

When I was a kid, I built a 1 watt amp using germanium transistors AC187/AC188. It ran on a 9volt battery pack. It drove a small 4 inch speaker mounted in a cardboard box. When my dad gave me an 8 inch speaker (pulled out from an old radio), I decided to build a bigger enclosure (using wood from a couple of old apple boxes). Soon got to understand that my 1 watt amp did not sound loud enough. The solution was simple, with the help of my dad, we built a 18 volt power supply and after checking that the caps were all properly rated, we plugged it in. This increased the output of the amp tremendously. Guess it may have played at around 2 watts or so.

Unfortunately this principle does not work in the real audio world, increased power does not mean, increasing the powersupply voltages and would mean, different circuits, components (including semiconductors and powersupply), heatsink, enclosure, etc. Also higher power amps tend to have marquee value associated with additional features, etc. Costs are bound to be higher. This is the simple explaination to it.

 

[jls001]

No Bro. It will only produce 1.23 times loudness.
The Relationship of Voltage, Loudness, Power and Decibels

Thanks, Hiten. I stand corrected.

But I guess the thing about +/-3 dB being the next significant sound pressure level step up/down remains true.

 

[Hiten]

3db ? Probably yes bro. But ..
Decibel (Loudness) Comparison Chart .. says it would be barely noticeable.
By the way my vintage amp is 12W+12W . was/is an old faithful. So sometimes me thinks ignorance is bliss .
Regards

 

[jls001]

By the way my vintage amp is 12W+12W . was/is an old faithful. So sometimes me thinks ignorance is bliss .
Regards

Which vintage amp is this? I am guessing it would be tube 12 Watts was the ballpark power for amps in the 50s.

 

[Hiten]

It's pioneer all in one (TT + AMP) Joshua. Very Heavy. I have seen smaller transformers in 50W amps .
Something like this but different model ->

 

[Hiten]

It's pioneer all in one (TT + AMP) Joshua. Very Heavy. I have seen smaller transformers in 50W amps . Something like this -> but different model

 

[jls001]

Seriously sexy gear.

 

[Hiten]

The pic is from the net. But My model is almost same.

 

[Santy]

So it goes like this:

• Better technology or better quality of components are not justified if they are put into smaller amps. So they are reserved for amps with bigger specifications.
• There are a no. of components which have to change in upper models like power supply, heat sinks, capacitors, resistors, circuit design and other semi conductor components to achieve increased performance.
• Marketing teams add premium to the bigger amps not only to compensate for the low demand but also for keeping the entry level models affordable (which helps in more unit sales and reach of the brand).
• The performance of the components are not linear, which means their output cannot be increased proportionately simply by multiplying their specifications.
• Hardly anyone uses the maximum capabilties of powerful amplifiers but still they go for it, for it has got better quality components.
• At same volumes, say 82db, the bigger amp would sound better than the smaller one, but how much- is really depending on other factors.

Wow it is getting interesting, but still many other parameters could be playing a role in the costing I guess.

 

[BLASTO]

I have another question.
Why is power 'required'?

For home use, Is a 100W amp any better than 50w amp for 88/89db (average) speakers which are norm in the market?

Why should anyone buy a 100W amp atall? Is it for commercial purposes with much greater area?

Won't increasing the volume of a 50W amp produce same results as 100W amp in bearable limits?

 

[Hiten]

I have another question.
Why is power 'required'?

For home use, Is a 100W amp any better than 50w amp for 88/89db (average) speakers which are norm in the market?

Why should anyone buy a 100W amp atall? Is it for commercial purposes with much greater area?

Won't increasing the volume of a 50W amp produce same results as 100W amp in bearable limits?

Blasto,
Quoting from post that Cranky (God bless him) had posted in another forum.

Music may have a dynamic range of more than 20dB. Some amplifiers have a maximum gain of 20dB. Which means at peak levels it will run out of volume. It is advisable to have a dynamic range of at least 10dB over the gain of the amplifier. So let's say 30dB, with a 4W average you're looking at peaks of ~130W.

Regards

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

For home use, Is a 100W amp any better than 50w amp for 88/89db (average) speakers which are norm in the market?

I replaced a 120W amp with a 50W amp. Sure, it was worth about four times the price, and an improvement was expected, but the actual improvement was so stunning, I have ignored these numbers on Amp and speaker specs ever since.

Why should anyone buy a 100W amp atall? Is it for commercial purposes with much greater area?

I was reading some pro-audio stuff yesterday, and the guy was talking about thousands of watts! Totally different ball game!

Won't increasing the volume of a 50W amp produce same results as 100W amp in bearable limits?

Not if you want the volume so loud that your amp starts clipping, which may destroy your speakers. Received wisdom says that low-power amps damage more speakers than high-power amps do.

For average people, with average rooms and moderate volume requirements, the most important thing is the quality of the sound. Nothing else matters. But if you do happen to be one of those people that turns the volume up to 11 ...