Yamaha 2009 line up

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 & 12.2 Speakers

spirovious

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Where did 664 series go?

New series with lower AVR 565 also do all ,1080p upscalor,HD aud decoding too.
 

gap g j

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Hi guys, Am not sure, if this has already been discussed in the forum yet. but the new line of Yamaha receivers for 2009 has been announced.

Yamaha updates its RX-V receiver lineup across five models - Engadget HD

They definitely look promising for sure (even price wise)... has this been done in Asia also? Any information about this is highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Any Idea when it will be available in India, Recently they have opened the exclusive show room in Chennai. Has anybody visited this show room.
 

saravanansuri

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Any Idea when it will be available in India, Recently they have opened the exclusive show room in Chennai. Has anybody visited this show room.

No clue actually. Singapore site doesn't list any of the new models. Anybody in the forum - any idea?

Raghu from decibel shud help i guess....
 

venkatcr

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There seem to be minor but important differences. I did a quick comparison of the 663 and the 665. Here are the changes:

1. 665 has 5 watts per channel less power.
2. It has 4 HDMI INs as against 663's 2 INs.
3. 665 has full HDMI upscaling.

Other than this, the features look the same. The pricing is the same.

Cheers
 

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marsilians

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Not a whole lot of difference but some notable functionality improvements.



  • The power is now quoted over the entire freq range. This is a tad surprising as usually the test is carried over a specific frequency? Experts comments welcome here.

    There is support for DD II plus
    S-video upconversion
    HDMI 1.3 support
There seem to be minor but important differences. I did a quick comparison of the 663 and the 665. Here are the changes:

1. 665 has 5 watts per channel less power.
2. It has 4 HDMI INs as against 663's 2 INs.
3. 665 has full HDMI upscaling.

Other than this, the features look the same. The pricing is the same.

Cheers
 

saravanansuri

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There seem to be minor but important differences. I did a quick comparison of the 663 and the 665. Here are the changes:

1. 665 has 5 watts per channel less power.
2. It has 4 HDMI INs as against 663's 2 INs.
3. 665 has full HDMI upscaling.

Other than this, the features look the same. The pricing is the same.

Cheers

Venkat, when I went to audition V663 in BB, the sales person said, Yamaha quotes the Peak power and not the continuous power (like Denon). Is that a pblm? how does the receivers actually operate on the different power ranges?
 

spirovious

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Venkat, when I went to audition V663 in BB, the sales person said, Yamaha quotes the Peak power and not the continuous power (like Denon). Is that a pblm? how does the receivers actually operate on the different power ranges?

Power is relative again.If spk r with higher sensitivity,then 50w per ch is enough.Low power can produce less distortion too.
 

marsilians

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Venkat, when I went to audition V663 in BB, the sales person said, Yamaha quotes the Peak power and not the continuous power (like Denon). Is that a pblm? how does the receivers actually operate on the different power ranges?

Power ratings are mostly bogus in the way they are measured and published. Good rule of thumb is to expect about 25-35% for mass market AVRs like Denon & Yamaha. So at 95 w/ch you can expect upto 30.
 

venkatcr

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Venkat, when I went to audition V663 in BB, the sales person said, Yamaha quotes the Peak power and not the continuous power (like Denon). Is that a pblm? how does the receivers actually operate on the different power ranges?

Not really as issue if you understand the terms.

As I have explained elsewhere, when you compare two amplifiers, you have to remove all external factors that could alter or affect the measurements. Generally two amplifiers are compared by sending a steady tone at a particular frequency (1Khz) and into identical speaker impedance (say 8 ohms) for a particular period of time. This is called continuous power.

When you are playing a movie or music, such ideal conditions do not happen. Frequencies vary from 20 to 20,000 Hz. An amplifier needs more power for lower frequencies. If the sound coming out has more lower frequency sound, the amplifier will be stretched to handle it at the same amplitude.

Peak power is needed to handle sudden spurts in sound such as an explosion, a gun shot, or a scream that needs more momentary power. Peak power is always more than continuous power but lasts for a very short time. What is needed for peak power is the capacity of the power unit inside the amplifier to deliver additional current instantaneously. This is misused by manufacturers to represent that their equipment has more power.

But this can be handled easily. Multiply the peak power specified by 0.707 to get continuous power. In other words continuous power is 70.7% of quoted peak power. So if a unit is quoted as delivering 100 watts peak power, it can deliver roughly 70 watts of continuous power.

Most reputed manufacturers will specify both figures as required by the laws of various countries. In addition, for multi channel amps, they have to specify how much power can all channels deliver when they are all driven at the same time. That means I am pushing 1Khz tone with a impedance of 8 ohms into all the channels at the same time. This is termed as 'all channels driven'.

All this is specified at acceptable distortion levels specified as THD. An amplifier may be able to deliver many times it rated power, but all you will hear is noise.

Many retailers may not understand these terms well and say anything to glorify or a kill a particular brand or a product. For actual details, look at the detailed brochure of the product as specified by the manufacturer.

Cheers
 

venkatcr

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Power ratings are mostly bogus in the way they are measured and published. Good rule of thumb is to expect about 25-35% for mass market AVRs like Denon & Yamaha. So at 95 w/ch you can expect upto 30.

Marsilians, you will have the Japs landing on Chennai and Mumbai beaches. :):):):)

Cheers
 

rydhun

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But this can be handled easily. Multiply the peak power specified by 0.707 to get continuous power. In other words continuous power is 70.7% of quoted peak power. So if a unit is quoted as delivering 100 watts peak power, it can deliver roughly 70 watts of continuous power.

"RMS power" & "continuous power" are interchangeable terms, right? Just confirming my understanding.

Most reputed manufacturers will specify both figures as required by the laws of various countries. In addition, for multi channel amps, they have to specify how much power can all channels deliver when they are all driven at the same time. That means I am pushing 1Khz tone with a impedance of 8 ohms into all the channels at the same time. This is termed as 'all channels driven'.
Cheers

I've also seen the term "Minimum RMS Output Power" used in Yamaha specs. Does the affix "minimum" imply anything additional?
 

venkatcr

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Actually using the term RMS for measuring or representing audio 'power' does not make much sense.

An analog sound is a continuous signal and takes the form of a sinusoidal wave. To measure the power rating of an amp, as I mentioned before, you send a fixed frequency sound (1 KHz) over a fixed load (8 ohms) for a particular period of time. Then you wind up the volume of the amplifier till it starts to distort the sound beyond a agreed level. Now you measure the output power of the amp for many sine wave cycles. You calculate the mean of these discrete measurements over a period of time, and you get the continuous power of the amp.

Power as we understand for audio is voltage multiplied by current. Since we are using DC for amplification, both volts and amperage (or current) are steady. Thus calculating the average or continuous power is very simple.

Now when you come to AC, suddenly the wave becomes a square wave. You use the Root Mean Square on either the current or the voltage to determine the AC equivalent of DC that will generate the same amount of heat from a specified load. But this has nothing to do with power as we know in HiFi.

Thus, as Raghu said, RMS can be used either for peak or continuous power. In HiFi, it actually has no meaning. The best is to replace RMS with the word 'average', or just ignore the term.

More important things to look for are:

  • THD. This should be 0.1% or less.
  • Frequency range. This should be a minimum of 20-20Khz. The power of the amp should be measured across this range. As I said before, low frequencies require more power.
  • The power unit. A good 5 channel amp should have a beefy power unit with a large transformer, and a large capacitor that can hold and deliver power when needed. Generally such amps should have a capacitance of 30,000uF at the least.
  • Dynamic power at 4, 6 and 8 ohm loads. This will tell how how well the amp will handle different speakers efficiently.

Cheers
 

prakasse

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There seem to be minor but important differences. I did a quick comparison of the 663 and the 665. Here are the changes:

1. 665 has 5 watts per channel less power.
2. It has 4 HDMI INs as against 663's 2 INs.
3. 665 has full HDMI upscaling.

Other than this, the features look the same. The pricing is the same.

Cheers

The big difference i see is that while 663 is rated at 20hz-20khz, 665 is rated at only 1 Khz. Also i heard Power consumption is only 270W for 665 while it is 400W on the 663. THD is 0.9%(1 khz) for 665 while it is 0.06%THD,(20hz-20khz) for 663.

weight of 665 is 18.6 lbs and that of 663 it is 26.2 lbs.

With all these changes i am wondering if the SQ would take a hit???

But 665 comes with video upscaling which is a plus :)
For pure Audio i still believe 663 is safe bet.

Thanks,
Prakash
 

venkatcr

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The big difference i see is that while 663 is rated at 20hz-20khz, 665 is rated at only 1 Khz.

As I have explained above, these are different ways of quoting continuous power. Quoting power at 1Khz is one way of keeping the external factors constant. Measuring power across the frequency range of 20-20Khz is more difficult to do as you have send test tones at various frequencies across the spectrum.

Also i heard Power consumption is only 270W for 665 while it is 400W on the 663. THD is 0.9%(1 khz) for 665 while it is 0.06%THD,(20hz-20khz) for 663.

weight of 665 is 18.6 lbs and that of 663 it is 26.2 lbs.

This (plus the reduced weight) has me worried. To large extent less weight means a hit on the power unit. Smaller transformers and capacitors of lesser capability. All this will hit the power capacity of the unit.

With all these changes i am wondering if the SQ would take a hit??? But 665 comes with video upscaling which is a plus :) For pure Audio i still believe 663 is safe bet.

Video upscaling would need a change in the circuit design and a couple of chips. Would not make any appreciable change to the body weight.

So, where has the 7.6 pounds gone? Flimsier cabinet, or a flimsier power unit? If it is the power unit, the sound quality could actually take a hit. Have to wait and see. Hopefully Yamaha will not do what Onkyo did. Their 2008 products were less capable than their 2007 products and lost in both sound and video qualities.

Cheers
 

jeevabobby26

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yes you are correct , it has been increased from

1. RXV-363 = RS.19800/- to RS.25100/-

2. RXV-463 = RS.27300/- to RS.34300/-

3. RXV-663 = RS.43700/- to RS.52100/-

4. RXV-863 = RS.62800/- to RS.79300/-

5. RXV-1800 = RS.92800/- PRICE NOT CHANGED

6. RXV-1900 = RS.131300/- NEW MODEL

7. RXV-3800 = RS.127000/- PRICE NOT CHANGED

8. RXV-3900 = RS.174700/- NEW MODEL

9. DSP-Z7 = RS.231700/- NEW MODEL

10.DSP-Z11 = RS.463700/- to RS.554700/-

11.YHT-195 = RS.28000/- to RS.34700/-

12. RXV-1700 = RS.67200/- PRICE NOT CHANGED MODEL UPTO AVAILABILITY

13. AX-397 = RS.17100/- to RS.20300/-

14. AX-497 = RS.20600/- to RS.23600/-

15. RX-397 = RS.17800/- PRICE NOT CHANGED

16. RX-497 = RS.20600/- PRICE NOT CHANGED

17. AS-1000 = RS.112500/-

18. AS-2000 = RS.129600/- to RS.161000/-

19. CD-S1000 = RS.115600/-

20. CD-S2000 = RS.102300/- to RS.133000/-
 

spirovious

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Today I took audition of 663,which works well with st music.I compared side by side with CA 540cdp system.In HT mode ,sound was little harsh/sharp.
Prices of Yam & Onkyo has gone up by 10% due to gain in Dollar.
Onk606 mrp= 40k
 

prakasse

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Why Yamaha should increase the price by 20% that too for old models. Not a correct move. Also the 2009 model line up is not up to expectations. Now they have got so many awards, best thing is to capture the market share than doing stupid things like this.

Anyways will wait for the review and feedback of the new AVR's

Thanks,
Prakash,
 
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