Yamaha DSP-A2070

Apparently there are some folks who post here that appreciate the yamaha dsp a2070 amplifier and I would value their input as to the current monetary value of a good yamaha sytem that I have located.

Congratulations for locating some good Yamaha amps, skinknmisery:thumbsup:

Wow what a name --> "skinknmisery"

What are you trying to mean by this nickname? I cannot find any misery in a person owning a pair of Klipsch LaScalla's.:lol: Congratulations for the speaker's though.:)


I have read the posts concerning this amp by rishiguru and appreciate greatly the comments and specifications.

Thanks for the appreciation.:signthankspin:

.. and in fact that's why I need a good amplifier because I've got a good wife heheh

Lucky guy.:D

ssooooo.... I'm not calling my self an audiophile but I have a pair of La Scala's and I like to play them loud... I appreciate what they sound like and I'm not looking for sound processing but sound amplification.

It seems you want good stereo sound amplification. Good for you.

I've located a system consisting of three components what would you give for them if they looked new with remotes and user manuals etc... like they sat in a second home and didn't get use much at all.

yamaha dsp a2070 processor/ amplifier
yamaha dx2 amplifier
tx480 reciever

it seems as though I would have two amplifiers either of which would work for my two speaker system although I know the mx2 would require a pre amp to work solo and the signal processor of the a2070 is dated but (not required specifically for a two speaker system) the reciever is of no value to me at all but oh... i'm drooling over what I know about the amps....

advise me please
skink n missouri

The Yamaha MX2 is a very good power amp. But as you said MX2 will require a pre amp like CX2. If you are looking for stereo output for the Klipsch you can get the DSP-A2070 work in stereo mode & it will do more than enough justice to those LaScalla's.

But for sure MX2 with a dedicated pre amp is an even better option. You can buy both & can look for a good pre amp to match with it. Use this with the klipsch then.

If you get the DSP-A2070 you can virtually use it as any thing, as pre or as a power amp or just for testing the different speakers etc. It has got loads of clean power.:D

The thing is if you want an instant cheap solution for your Klipsch and want to but only one of above products get the A2070. Else go for separate route of MX2 + pre amp.

Best of luck.:thumbsup:
 
wow, This thread has very long posts.

Long and informative posts, I assume.:D

For the last few months I have been shit busy in my work, not able to be here, my research on DSP-A2070 have stopped and i am very unhappy becoz of that.:sad:

I thought about writing a post related to how the DSP unit works in this amp, and believe me this unit of A2070 is a computer by itself with independent CPU, RAM, storage memory, bios, dedicated bus & every thing else & PC needs.

Also this DSP unit used Burr Brown DAC's!!!

I am quite overwhelmed that back in 1993, Yamaha had produced an amp with such high level of sophistication.

Have lost the habit for reading so long.

With this thread you are back to college days, man.:p

On top of that i usually access the forum on my mobile.

jaudere, PC's will be PC's & mobiles will be mobiles. There is no way of shoving in a 19 inch real estate PC monitor in your mobile, no matter how sharp or how many pixels you have in it. I have stopped using my mobile for internet browsing, I either do it in my office PC or in my home.

With no engineering background, things start becoming tangent when i am halfway through.

jaudere you are the one who inspired me to get the Norge 1000 & your valuable information's regarding this amp helped me me out to come to a decision. I admit that technical know-how can help you to a certain level but it never give you the complete picture. You may have a little less knowledge in this aspects but you subjective view of audio equipments are very specific & spot on.

You describe your subjective views in very layman terms which provides us a clear view of how the system sounds. Thanks for that.:thumbsup:
 
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Yamaha's Digital Sound Field Processing (DSP)

We all know that Yamaha is also the manufacturer of musical instruments. Having this expertise from 1887, it was from 1970s onward they started venturing in designing concert halls for accurate sound reproduction. They also started custom fittings of audio gear in many famous churches & clubs.

Images from the DSP-1 brochure:
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Yamaha designing audio gear for the concert halls & churches:
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While designing these concert halls the Yamaha sound engineers had to study and carry out a lot of tests regarding how their audio equipment should be placed inside the hall in order to get the best possible sonic experience. Tests regarding sonic fidelity, echos & reverberation patterns not to mention the liveliness of music as it reaches to the back of the hall and many other parameters related to sound technology were performed. From all these cumulative experiences they gathered huge amount of raw digital measurement data.

Back calculating, the sound engineers of Yamaha thus came to know how the echo & reverberation patterns along with many other audio parameters should be in order to recreate the same "sound field" on sonic environment in a room. If some portion of their proprietary raw digital data is calculated in real time it will recreate the same kind of ambience or sound field as felt in by a person sitting in a concert hall, church, club etc.

Yamaha DSP-1
dsp1.jpg


In 1986, for the first time in audio history Yamaha created a sensation by introducing the Yamaha DSP-1 which supported multi channel speaker arrangement that later give birth to multi channel sound & home theater. With DSP-1 Yamaha engineers utilized a fraction of the digital data that they collected while designing concert halls, churches, etc into creating a similar simulated sound fields in a room. It was the sensation of digital sound in 1986, because for the first time in audio industry a company had mainly focused on multi channel spatial realism.

But then exceptional sonic fidelity had been realized through the digital recording technology used in compact disc players. Now Yamaha had achieved a comparable breakthrough in audio spatial realism by developing one of the significant innovations since stereo, the DSP-1 Digital Sound Field Processor. The DSP-1 was able to recreate the actual acoustical characteristics of 13 live performance environments by digitally reproducing the depth, imaging and spatial of those environments using recorded reverberation and echo patters.

Yamaha used their raw digital data to be processed by a newly developed Yamaha VLSI for DSP-1, which included a high-speed 24-bit X 13-bit multiplier and a 24-bit adder/substarctor, was used to process sonic reflections in real time, while digital signals were processed at a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz by 16-bit linear quantization A/D and D/A converters.

Back in 1986 technical constraints & manufacturing limitations caused the DSP-1 to calculate a fraction of the Yamaha raw digital data since the CPU was not powerful enough to calculate the huge data on real time. To provide an analogy the sound effects was more or less like the 128kbps mp3 music encoding that just barely makes the audio frequency spectrum with a good amount of loss in detailing!!! But still it was a quantum leap in audio industry back in 1986.

Yamahas Digital Sound Field Processing (DSP) consists of two main categories. One concept is to enhance music listening and creating realism that mimics the sound effects as found & felt in concert halls, churches, clubs, etc. The listener feels like he is listening to a live concert environment in his living room. It is quite different from current 5.1 or 7.1 formats, since here the receivers just get the pre processed eight channel sound from the source DVD and provide to the eight channels with no internal processing, while for DSP units like DSP-1 accepts a stereo signal & processes it with its dedicated central processing unit (CPU) in real time and provided the six channel output with its Sound Field effects.

DSP units try to recreate a concert hall experience in a room just like when stereo equipment is played live in a concert hall. More like concert hall stereo experience. And truly I am staring to like this live experience thing!!! Yamaha provided complex parameters to end users like effect trim, delay, room size, initial delay, etc which can be adjusted from the DSP unit remote control in order to customize for specific requirements of the owners room size & its characteristics. These parameters are quite complex and can take you ages to understand.

The second concept is in using the data measured in reality they do not exist and create a sound space to enjoy & enhance immersive movies experience known as "CINEMA DSP". So you get filed effects like Movie Theater, concert video, TV Theater also in this DSP units.

Yamaha DSP-100
dsp100.jpg


As said before while the DSP-1 could barely make these sound effects, Yamaha engineers started concentrating on improving the DSP units CPU processing power in order to process more and more of Yamahas property digital data. Later came models like DSP-100 with significant improvement in the sound field effects with much better processing power from its DSP unit. In analogy DSP-100 was like the 256 kbps mp3 version of music encoding, with much more detailing & accurate in recreating the Sound Fields than the previous 128kbps DSP-1 version.

The original DSP-1 & DSP-100 used to process only six channels instead of standard seven since it lacked the center channel. Center channel was later added in the next DSP models. DSP-1 units did not even had a volume controller or a integrated amp module, so separate 6 channel master volume controller plus stereo power amp for the main stereo outputs plus a four channel amplifier for the four effect speakers had to be used with it. DSP-100 included the 6 channel master volume controller with it.

Yamaha DSP-A1000
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It was in 1990 that Yamaha realized the separate route of DSP unit + master volume controller + stereo power amp for main stereo speakers + 5 channel power amp for effect speakers were just too cumbersome to market and hence amalgamated all these units into a single piece of sonic brilliance, which came to be known as the Yamaha DSP-A1000 weighing a monstrous 20 kg and costing a whopping $2000. The DSP-A1000 had even more processing power than DSP-100 and was a favorite among many people who owned this seven channel amplifier. In analogy DSP-A1000 was like a 320kbps mp3 version and was truly good in creating detailed & perfect sound field effects with its powerful DSP unit.

After a great success of DSP-A1000 the Yamaha engineers concentrated wholly on the DSP processing unit & its processing power alone for the next three years. In 1993 when the DSP-A2070 was released it looked identical to DSP-A1000. The only difference from outside appearance was the numbering on the faceplate!!!

Yamaha DSP-A2070 & Remote Control
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While DSP-A2070 retained the stellar power supply & power amplifier modules of DSP-A1000, this time around the DSP unit was three times more powerful than DSP-A1000!!! In analogy it was like the FLAC version of music encoding with superb, picture perfect & almost real sound field effects. Back in 1993, the $2000, 21kg, 7 channel , Yamaha DSP-A2070 was their venerable flagship.

With the DSP-A2070 the huge amount of data that Yamaha collected while designing concert halls were properly utilized, and the engineers was so happy with the imaging & detailing of the DSP-A2070 Sound Field Processing that in there next model released in 1995 the DSP-A3090 had the same DSP music processing of DSP-A2070, while the whole new concept of Cinema DSP dedicated to movies & not music was ventured into. DSP-A3090 was basically a DSP-A2070 unit with some additional memory to compensate for the "Tri-Field Processing" which was added to Dolby AC-3 surrounds (later known as Dolby Digital). Otherwise, features were virtually identical to the DSP-A2070.

Yamaha DSP-A2070's DSP unit
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I have minutely studied the DSP unit of my DSP-A2070 as shown above and became quite impressed with their work. In plain words what you are looking at at is a tiny computer with dedicated CPU, RAM, bus, cache memory, storage memory, memory bus.... Pretty impressive work back in 1993 using Cirrus Logic ADC's and Burr Brown DAC's.

Mind you both A1000 & A2070 had the option for the main left & right stereo speaker channels to pass through this DSP unit having the added "sound filed" effects and A/D to D/A conversions, or to bypass this DSP unit and remain pure analog or in other words "pure stereo" mode. This can be done with the "Front Mix" switch located a the back of the amp in off position.

Amazingly while Yamaha started designing concert halls from 1970, it took them full 23 years to fulfill the desired results that the engineers wanted from there DSP amplifiers. I will later provide the detailed technical analysis of this module.

@Update : I am currently using the DSP-A2070 in a six speakers configuration(no center channel still) and really enjoying the Digital Sound Field Processing that this amp comes laden with. By heart I am purist, but when the mood is right I really start enjoing these DSP modes!!!

My favorites are Concert Hall1, Church, Rock Concert & Jazz Club.
 
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Why you are blowing trumpet of old technology which is outdated?
I mean it is not evergreen like stereo - this technology was not real 5 channel and not supporting subwoofer so useless for current software -can I have any idea how useful it is playing BD 7.1 trumpet.

also price is function of market oulook - I want to be in premium and prices of chips fallen drastically .
Ib 1999 -2000 i have seen P3 laptops costing couple of lacks and ,adjest infletion and the price is around 4 lacks - Now

an 15 you can get for Rs 40 -45 k so according to you p3 is better than i5 right? Please prove....

also Yo claim this amplifier is PURE 2 channel - but I can see 5 speaker outputs - also I can see Dolby pro logic logo -

whic was 5 speaker technology -so How the 5 channel input was given? or it is pseudo DSP which generates sound?DO U HAVE

ANSWER? Or IT is a gimmicy amp?

BTW while writing ( or copy pasting ) this load have you really Studied dolby pro logic technology? Why it is never

mentioned in your posts why this amp lacks digital inputs ....or it was a gimmic to just give output in 5 channels? WAS IT

A "MIRACLE" - STEREO IN -5 CHANNEL OUT?

Can we have some answers please?

( BTW I KNOW SOME ANSWERS _ SO STUDY YOUR TECHNOLOGY - THIS IS HINT)
__________________
 
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shop no 1 rebello compound mahakali caves rd next to rebello compound


Why you are blowing trumpet of old technology which is outdated?
I mean it is not evergreen like stereo - this technology was not real 5 channel and not supporting subwoofer so useless for current software -can I have any idea how useful it is playing BD 7.1 trumpet.

also price is function of market oulook - I want to be in premium and prices of chips fallen drastically .
Ib 1999 -2000 i have seen P3 laptops costing couple of lacks and ,adjest infletion and the price is around 4 lacks - Now

an 15 you can get for Rs 40 -45 k so according to you p3 is better than i5 right? Please prove....

also Yo claim this amplifier is PURE 2 channel - but I can see 5 speaker outputs - also I can see Dolby pro logic logo -

whic was 5 speaker technology -so How the 5 channel input was given? or it is pseudo DSP which generates sound?DO U HAVE

ANSWER? Or IT is a gimmicy amp?

BTW while writing ( or copy pasting ) this load have you really Studied dolby pro logic technology? Why it is never

mentioned in your posts why this amp lacks digital inputs ....or it was a gimmic to just give output in 5 channels? WAS IT

A "MIRACLE" - STEREO IN -5 CHANNEL OUT?

Can we have some answers please?

( BTW I KNOW SOME ANSWERS _ SO STUDY YOUR TECHNOLOGY - THIS IS HINT)
__________________

I can provide all your answers, but right now I am tired.:D

Man whats wrong with you?:confused:

If i provide a good way of defining how Yamaha's DSP technology came into being whats wrong in that?

I am writing an article related to DSP in DSP-A2070 thread. I also happen to be the OP of this thread. If you don't like it then don't read this thread.
 
I can provide all your answers, but right now I am tired.:D

Man whats wrong with you?:confused:

If i provide a good way of defining how Yamaha's DSP technology came into being whats wrong in that?

I am writing an article related to DSP in DSP-A2070 thread. I also happen to be the OP of this thread. If you don't like it then don't read this thread.

Everyone is here for RIGHT information ...which he can use..:eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:

Your statements are contadicting with what I can see

1) Acc to you this is stereo amp
2) This has 5 speakers outputs - as per photo
3) This was DOLBY pro logic amp - which was 5 channel technology
4) You never made us clear how 5 channel inputs were given - WHY? I cannot see any ditial input or 5 channel analouge inputs..

So Yamaha was fraud? So why such a praise for such an amp ?

also you are blowing a lot about US$ 2000 I gave example of laptop - so your view please?

I SAY STUDY --- AND STUDY REQUIRE PATIENCE - AND ANALYSIS - YOU MAY NOT ABLE TO COPY PASTE BUT NEED TO INTERPRET.... IT WILL TAKE TIME..:eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:
 
Why you are blowing trumpet of old technology which is outdated?

What makes you think that DSP is an outdated technology. Can you tell me why many people like outdated (may I please) Class-A amps instead of more modern class D amplifiers?

According to you they are nuts.:D

Sound quality & its effects are subjective my friend.:eek:hyeah:

this technology was not real 5 channel and not supporting subwoofer so useless for current software -can I have any idea how useful it is playing BD 7.1 trumpet.

hemant it seems you have not read this thread carefully and jumped to a conclusion. I request you to read this thread carefully.

also price is function of market oulook - I want to be in premium and prices of chips fallen drastically .
Ib 1999 -2000 i have seen P3 laptops costing couple of lacks and ,adjest infletion and the price is around 4 lacks - Now

So, now you are comparing laptops with audio amplifiers. GOOD.:lol:

Firstly, the chips of the amp are the least costly components. The most expensive module of an amplifier is always going to be the power supply module. Those two 22,000uf 71V Nichicon Great Supply power capacitors of DSP-A2070 costs INR 18,000 alone. Leave the transformer as of now. And yes you can buy all the 14 power transistors with take 6 for spare with one bank of the heatsink of DSP-A2070.

I was told by a very learned person who happens to be the chief technical sound engineer of a very renouned speaker company who also happens to be a member of this forum that the quality of electronic components that was available back in the time frame of 1980-1995 are no more available as of now.

To give you an example this person has currently filed for a patient in speaker technology in which he had designed a high pass & low pass filter circuit which will use very high quality resistors that was found in 1990 and used in high quality audio gear. When he contacted this famous resistor company they said, production of the specific resistor had stopped & no one buys them since they are so costly and he had to request them to produce those resistors for him specifically on request.

If Yamaha needs to produce the DSP-A2070 with the same quality components as used then, it still cost over $2000.

And the biggest proof is my 16 year old A2070 units is still running like a work horse without a single glitch.

also Yo claim this amplifier is PURE 2 channel - but I can see 5 speaker outputs

You see wrong. It has seven channel output with two additional sub output. Advice to read the thread again.

IT is a gimmicy amp?

Man you make me laugh so loud.:lol:

BTW while writing ( or copy pasting ) this load have you really Studied dolby pro logic technology?

At least I try to write something which some people until now thinks is useful and thanked me. I write for them. If you don't please do not read them.

A "MIRACLE" - STEREO IN -5 CHANNEL OUT?

Can we have some answers please?

( BTW I KNOW SOME ANSWERS _ SO STUDY YOUR TECHNOLOGY - THIS IS HINT)
__________________

You have not understood the Yamaha's DSP philosophy.

A 7.1 channel amplifier will accept independent eight audio channels amplify them independently & provide as output.

Yamaha DSP-A2070 will operate in two modes. One, considering no subs are attached and the "Effect" button in off position, only main stereo channels remains active and operates in stereo mode. The input stereo analog signal bypasses DSP module and you get stereo in, stereo out.

The other mode is with "Effect" button on position, the amp is still accepting analog stereo inputs, and the main stereo speakers are still producing stereo output, but the second stereo amp is active now, it is providing a center channel & additional four effect channels to the DSP unit and this unit does not to mimic modern 7.1 channel output of modern amps, but to produce a sound field that mimics a concert hall. It is like listening to a stereo equipment in a concert hall.

Ever thought why live experiences at concert halls are so special to hear, with all the echos & reverberation patterns inside the halls which are not "purely" stereo. Well Yamaha's DSP technology tries to recreate this live performance experience one gets inside a concert in your living room. Back in early 90's, I think there was no 5.1 or 7.1 channel audio(correct me if i am wrong). Still Yamaha dared into this multi-channel territory with plain stereo analog sound. Hats off to the Yamaha engineers and their pure genius.

have you really Studied dolby pro logic technology? Why it is never

mentioned in your posts why this amp lacks digital inputs ....or it was a gimmic to just give output in 5 channels? WAS IT

Dolby Pro Logic technology accepts stereo analog inputs.

As found in Wiki : "Dolby Pro Logic is a surround sound processing technology developed by Dolby Laboratories, designed to decode soundtracks encoded with Dolby Surround. Dolby Stereo was originally developed by Dolby in 1976 for analog cinema sound systems. The format was adapted for home use in 1982 as Dolby Surround when HiFi capable consumer VCRs were introduced; it was then replaced by the newer and improved Pro-Logic system in 1987. However, the term "Dolby Surround" is still used to describe the encoding technology or matrix-encoded soundtrack, whereas Pro Logic refers to the decoding technology and processor. It is the domestic equivalent of the theatrical Dolby Stereo technology used in movie cinemas in the 1970s and '80s. The two technologies are mostly identical but a change in marketing was needed so as not to confuse cinema stereo which is at least four channels of audio with home stereo which is only two. Thus Dolby Pro Logic is the consumer version of theatrical Dolby Stereo.

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic matrix technology. When a Dolby Surround/Pro Logic soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track. The centre channel is encoded by placing it equally in the left and right channels; the rear channel is encoded using phase shift techniques, typically an out of phase stereo mixdown.

A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surroundleft and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range (7 kHz low-pass filtered[1]) mono rear channelwhile systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard stereo."

Wiki : Dolby Pro Logic

I think this clarifies why DSP-A2070 have only analog stereo inputs.

So Yamaha was fraud?

Now I see where all the problem lies.

I SAY STUDY --- AND STUDY REQUIRE PATIENCE - AND ANALYSIS - YOU MAY NOT ABLE TO COPY PASTE BUT NEED TO INTERPRET.... IT WILL TAKE TIME..:eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:

Requests the same to you before you jump to any conclusions.
 
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Back in 1993, I think there was no 5.1 or 7.1 channel audio(correct me if i am wrong).



As found in Wiki : "Dolby Pro Logic is a surround sound processing technology developed by Dolby Laboratories, designed to decode soundtracks encoded with Dolby Surround. Dolby Stereo was originally developed by Dolby in 1976 for analog cinema sound systems. The format was adapted for home use in 1982 as Dolby Surround when HiFi capable consumer VCRs were introduced; it was then replaced by the newer and improved Pro-Logic system in 1987. However, the term "Dolby Surround" is still used to describe the encoding technology or matrix-encoded soundtrack, whereas Pro Logic refers to the decoding technology and processor. It is the domestic equivalent of the theatrical Dolby Stereo technology used in movie cinemas in the 1970s and '80s. The two technologies are mostly identical but a change in marketing was needed so as not to confuse cinema stereo which is at least four channels of audio with home stereo which is only two. Thus Dolby Pro Logic is the consumer version of theatrical Dolby Stereo.

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic matrix technology. When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track. The centre channel is encoded by placing it equally in the left and right channels; the rear channel is encoded using phase shift techniques, typically an out of phase stereo mixdown.

A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surroundleft and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range (7 kHz low-pass filtered[1]) mono rear channelwhile systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard stereo."

Wiki : Dolby Pro Logic

I think it clarifies why DSP-A2070 only have analog stereo inputs.



Now I see where the problem is.



Requests the same to you.


this is what i wanted to study

You only claimed ( UR STATEMENTS)

"No. Forget about 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1...................... with this amp.

This is a pure stereo amp. Just pumped up to produce 7 channel output."

SO 7.1 IS PROUCED BY DOLBY PRO LOGIC TECHNOLOGY WHICH WAS PREVALING TECHNOLOGY FOR HT DESIGNED BY DOLBY LABS.

Not mentioned anywhere ..

BTW seen demo of pro logic in 92 or 93 --In mumbai exhibition..
It was BPL stall - with T2 as test video on LD ( Any mumbaikars remember the show.) BPL even had rear and surround decoder at that time .

MIND WELL PRICES WERE HIGH - Compared to todays BD ,LD's prices were astronomical and availabality was restricted to posh areas of Mumbai.



also one of my super-rich friend had a hi end sony pro logic amp ( with Bose AM 5 and some other speakers) I read a detailed -white paper like article which I did not understood -but this matrix technology stayed in my mind.

It was 92-93 I think and I was involved in setup hard earned knowledge :clapping:...it was not knowledge gained through armchair research :eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:


So buddy your is HT amp - with dated technology ,( bTW YOU ONLY SAID IT WON BEST HOME THEATRE AWARD :eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:)

It is no doubt great at times and being flagship must be sounding good

but

WHICH SPEAKERS YOU ARE USING?
acc to you - Currently paired the A2070 with my Sony SS-GN88D bookshelves which sound quality wise no where near the B&W floorstanders.

HOW MANY DIFFERENT SPEAKERS YOU USED? MOEL NOS AND MODEL YEAR?

Your thread is so big that I am lost ( is that deliberate??:eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:) but are you using those same Sony speakers???

I mean this is a powerful amp and if you are using sony speakers those are of mass market boom boxes , never known for quality...and most of the boomboxes had below average amps...
SO IS YOUR AMP MAKES AVERAGE SPEAKERS GREAT? OR ANY SPEAKER GREAT?

Btw you should tahnk me as you were unaware of technology this amp having ....so I am the on who shown you the reality..
 
FIGHT .... FIGHT .... I am enjoying it ....... :D:eek:hyeah:
BTW, Sony speakers of the 90s era were'nt that bad ... they were'nt mass market stuff during that period.
 
FIGHT .... FIGHT .... I am enjoying it ....... :D:eek:hyeah:
BTW, Sony speakers of the 90s era were'nt that bad ... they were'nt mass market stuff during that period.

No these are 00's sony I think speakers used in Allin one systems

Good aio systems - are you referring FH -7 .those speakers were really good

SONY had some good speakes - but check what speakers he is referring - ..and you decide
 
We should continue the discussion (why new is not better than old or vice versa) here.

Nice thread anyway. I have a few queries.
What is the difference between Fronts and Mains speaker output.
I can see 8 channels speaker out. Front L,R, Main L,R, Centre A,B, Rear L,R
Any idea why centre has two outputs?
Does it have a subwoofer preout?
Does it accept multiple, discrete analog inputs.. I cant see the connections.
Which speakers have you connected currently.
Are you using it for movies? Do you have plans to add more speakers for other channels?

For music, this amp does lot of signal processing to give surround effect.
This is what this amp is made for.
But dont you agree audiophiles world over prefer to listen to pure stereo for music without any kind of coloring?
Don't you think a two channel integrated for the same cost would be better for music?
 
Recently I became quite interested in knowing the past of many famous audio companies like NAD, Marantz, B&W, Yamaha, ...

Being almost a newbie, I went on searching the web until I stumbled upon a website named thevintageknob.org & came to know about the Yamaha Centennial Series which was released back in 1987 or 1988.

To read the rest please follow the link : HiFiVision : Yamaha Centennial Edition
 
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came across this thread from a website... this guy seems to be owning a DSP 3090, higher model of the 2070 at $2.5k, and a marantz sr580 (the one that i happen to own) seems the marantz is better than the yamaha for music but the yamaha has better surround capabilities..

actually these were all high end stereo amps that were launched with mediocre surround capabilities to catch the then AVR market...


"FWIW I do a lot of HT as well as music on the HT system.
I also have a HT marantz setup in a 2 channel, and compare it to my 2226 vintage marantz.

This is my thought.

Sometime in 95-96-97-98-99 when HT was taking off companies made good musical amps and endowed them with HT specific dolby 5.1 or 7.1 decoding ability. The yamaha DSP series is an example of that. So is the marantz sr580 I use as 2 channel but its dolby ability is decidedly poorer than my DSP3090.
The result was hideously expensive receivers - like the dsp3090 that listed for 2499 in 2000. Soon enough they figured out that all the end users were running crap like bose crap for surround sound, and they could not tell sound stage from a hole in the ground and they wised up. The amps got less and less musical but better and better at dolby.
I have run the rx-v3300 yamaha by no means a cheap receiver, against my dsp3090.

For movies and home theater they are awfully close. Music is where the dsp3090 shines especially if you have the kind of speakers I do.

If all the roads are straight, why make a car that can corner ... if all the speakers are bose, why make an amp that can make nice music.

My marantz sr580 is a shade better than the dsp3090 for music. However its much much worse for Home theater.
My Kenwood vr517 actually works better than it for HT but its a POS compared to the marantz for music.
My thought is -
New amps can be musical, but you may have to hunt and buy the right one.
New amps are all pretty good for HT though some are better than others.
No old amp will work for HT."
 
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came across this thread from a website... this guy seems to be owning a DSP 3090, higher model of the 2070 at $2.5k, and a marantz sr580 (the one that i happen to own) seems the marantz is better than the yamaha for music but the yamaha has better surround capabilities..

Congratulations rijuc for owning such beautiful amps like Yamaha DSP-A3090 & Marantz SR580.:licklips:

IMHO DSP-A3090 is not the higher model of DSP-A2070 but the next iteration of DSP-A2070. All of them belonged to Yamaha's TOTL(Top Of The Line) series.

These trio of DSP-A1000 [$2,000] (1990), DSP-A2070 [$2,000] (1993) & DSP-A3090 [$2,500] (1995) have identical sound signature & sound quality since all of them uses uses the same power supply module & power amp architecture, its DSP-A3090's voltage rails being increased a little to produce a little bit more power for the rear speakers.

Get any one of them and you will be equally happy from their stereo performance.:) But there are vast differences between the 7.1 channel DSP performance between these trio, DSP-A3090 being the best of the lot.

For example DSP-A2070 Digital Sound Field Processor(DSP) was three times more powerful than DSP-A1000. So the DSP experience was more immersive & enjoyable on DSP-A2070. DSP-A3090 had the same music DSP capabilites of DSP-A2070 but a whole new concept of 'Cinema DSP' was developed to cater movies only.

Regarding your sr580, I believe Marantz make very good amps. I have heard their PM7004 integrated stereo amp quite extensively and they deliver exceptional performance. I have also heard their SR6003 AVR, very good sounding but much less musical than PM7004. But movies is where SR6003 shines over PM7004.

actually these were all high end stereo amps that were launched with mediocre surround capabilities to catch the then AVR market...

Mediocre is a term that is relative to its time frame. Back in 1990, Yamaha DSP-A1000 was a state of the art 7.1 channel monster amplifier. Two whole decades later when we try to compare them with modern receivers we find they posses next to no feature set required for current movie experience but what they have in loads & loads are fabulous sound quality, brutal power output capabilities & 'built like a tank' type reliability.

You are right in pointing out the fact that these were high end stereo amps, actually the power amp module of these trio consist of two stereo amps amalgated!!! Technically speaking they are not even receivers, there is no tuner present in DSP-A1000, DSP-A2070 or DSP-A3090. They can best be called as 'statement 7.1 channel integrated amplifiers'.:)

This is my thought. Sometime in 95-96-97-98-99 when HT was taking off companies made good musical amps and endowed them with HT specific dolby 5.1 or 7.1 decoding ability. The yamaha DSP series is an example of that.

Back in the early 90's stereo was prevalent & multi channel audio was non-existent, so Yamaha used their DSP technology (described earlier in this thread) to produce 7.1 channel output from stereo input. They were never pure 7.1 channel amps having discrete 8 channel audio inputs. They were never designed to do so. Also Dolby Surround/ Pro Logic processing happens from stereo input. Yamaha DSP series were masters of that.

So is the marantz sr580 I use as 2 channel but its dolby ability is decidedly poorer than my DSP3090.

The result was hideously expensive receivers - like the dsp3090 that listed for 2499 in 2000. Soon enough they figured out that all the end users were running crap like bose crap for surround sound, and they could not tell sound stage from a hole in the ground and they wised up. The amps got less and less musical but better and better at dolby.

I admit these trio of DSP-A1000,DSP-A2070 & DSP-A3090 were hideously expensive amplifiers. But that amount of money went into high quality audio components used in them. If you open your's DSP-A3090 cabinet the first thought will be about how beefy every component is.

To tell you the truth I am quite amazed how my 16 year old DSP-A2070 handles every thing with ease despite its age. There is not even a single crackle from the volume potentiometer!!! The amp will pull clean with no distortion no matter how much you increase the volume. Currently I am using a six speaker setup, four effect speakers at four corners and the main left & right stereo speakers. I press the effect button on the remote, and I am presented with a 'Sound Field' I turn is off only stereo output is available.

Bose produces crap thats for sure.:D At the very beginning of their existence Bose may have produced one or two floorstanders that were really good, but after that its was all crap with big marketing campaigns. All the audio companies realised that 95% of the general mass market wants features over pure sound quality & what the hell consumers will know about sound quality when they are to be used with crappy Bose speakers!!!:lol:

So in effect multi channel amps became less & less musical with the advancement of time as more and more movie features were cramped into. In other words multi channel amps became more movie centric & less musical.

I have run the rx-v3300 yamaha by no means a cheap receiver, against my dsp3090.

For movies and home theater they are awfully close. Music is where the dsp3090 shines especially if you have the kind of speakers I do.

Amazing!!!:D

I thought the Yamaha RX-V3300 will be hell & heaven above the DSP-A3090 in terms of movie and home theater experience, but as you say they are awfully close. Since you have both the units & quality speakers to supplement them you are definitely speaking about the 'naked truth'.

This points out that Yamaha DSP technology was so ahead of its time that accepting only stereo input the DSP-A3090 was able to recreate a 7.1 channel "movie theater" sound field providing more or less the equal movie experience of a receiver having discrete 6.1 channel audio input!!!

Thanks for the info & comparison.:)

Flipping the coin to the other side, musical performance of DSP-A1000,DSP-A2070 & DSP-A3090 will always be superior to the current breed of receivers because firstly at that time movie specific features did not spoil their musicality & secondly all of our hard earned money was spent in high quality audio components rather than paying multiple licence fees to Dolby & others.:)

If all the roads are straight, why make a car that can corner ... if all the speakers are bose, why make an amp that can make nice music.

Rightly said. :p

Gone are the days of musical 7.1 channel amps :indifferent14:

My marantz sr580 is a shade better than the dsp3090 for music. However its much much worse for Home theater.

I believe sound quality & the way we perceive music in subjective and is relative to individuals taste. There is simply no denying of this fact.

Different person have different tastes, different preferences & liking's, some love the Marantz sound, some love Yamaha sound, some love Luxman sound.

I for example have heard the same track thrice using the DSP-A2070 & PM7004 through these awsome B&W 800 Diamond floorstanders costing a whopping INR 25 lakhs.

Three out of three times I liked the sound of the Yammy over marantz. But your liking can just be my opposite if for you or someone else's have a different taste for sound quality.

At the end I believe all the well known audio companies must be respected & revered. It is just that some persons like some specific sound signature followed by one or two companies which lead them to liking their products more than the others.

Yamaha has the philosophy that what ever goes in, also must come out much louder. In other words the output signal is just a wire with pure gain, nothing else. This preciseness with zero colouration is often called "analytic" due to the presence of the high mids. This sound signature is often termed as "Yamaha Natural Sound". Marantz have a more warm sound than Yamaha which implies the low mids are slightly more in quantity than the high mids, and are a little less precise with little added colour.

Does these mean Marantz makes bogus product? Hell no!!! It's just that both the companies have different philosophies regarding sound & their way of expressing them. So in the end I believe in the fact that once's choice with one's ears is the best way to be satisfied with sound quality.:)

My Kenwood vr517 actually works better than it for HT but its a POS compared to the marantz for music.

Recently I heard a Kenwood pre-power combo in a seconds sale. This specific model does not have the precision of a Yammy nor are of melodious nature of marantz. But they are very loud with lots of power. Here is the link: Need Help : Kenwood KC-105 pre-amp + KM-105 power-amp

Kenwood have several other amps which may be exceptional. I do not know.

My thought is -
New amps can be musical, but you may have to hunt and buy the right one.
New amps are all pretty good for HT though some are better than others.
No old amp will work for HT."

+1
 
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After reading a few posts on this thread, i think i should contribute something that i am aware of. Last year on a flight from Malaysia to Singapore i met a person who had worked with Yamaha in his early years of work on the Yamaha DSP technology. This guy was kind enough to explain me things about yamaha's early days into developing this technology and all the hard work that has been put into this technology.
Yamaha has been the only company which has worked in collaboration with Dolby sound labs in developing the early 4 channel Dolby surround. A DSP mode called dolby surround Enhanced was only Available on Yamaha av receivers and this algorithm was a joint effort of Dolby and Yamaha.
Though there was a lot of dialect issues in our conversation but Mr. Honshu was kind Enough to explain me the working principles of Yamaha Cinema Dsp. DSP as we all know stands for digital signal processing But in case of Yamaha this stands of Digital Sound field processing . This technology deals in reproducing a movie sound in a correct way in our home theaters by treating the entire audible frequency range in real time domain. This may sound simple but there is an extremely complex hardware and software working behind it , and by complex i mean really really complex . No other brand has this feature set. I have read a lot of things posted on this forum about Yamaha adding some random ambiance to sound and nothing more and people who post such information have no idea at all as to what Cinema DSP is all about .
One simple Question
Why are movie theaters equipped with a single LCR speaker each behind the screen and multiple surround speakers?
A lot will answer to this question saying that there are a lot seats or rows to deal with.
-No , its very easy to put one big speaker in a real movie theater or lets say like today's avr's have 4 surrounds , 4 big speakers can be easily installed , then whats the need of 10 to 15 surround speakers?
When more speakers are added that carry a similar sound the sound from each surround speaker will reach a random person sitting inside a theater at a different time and unlike as in our home theater systems which delay sound in the surround speakers , so that the sound reaches a person in a home theater this is not the case in a real movie theater . If we do the math and add delay to each left surround speaker (incase of multiple left and right surrounds) this will solve the delay problems in one direction but will make the things worse in other direction.
there is more to this scene here , the multiple speakers are intentionally used in every theater as per a standard set . These multiple surround speakers help to create an ambiance on the surround channels by sending the same sound to each person at a slightly different time creating a sense of spaciousness or liveliness .And the sound engineers take this factor into account while mixing the sound. Yamaha cinema dsp helps to re-create this same experience in our home theaters by treating each frequency in real time and making it sound in our HT like the way it sounds in a real real theater .
To do this yamaha engineers have collected data from hundreds of movie theaters around the world .
what is this data ?
this data is a sonic signature of each frequency(entire bandwidth) in a unique place.
This data is then processed and stored on the ROM's of the DSP engine inside each Yamaha Avr.
When the YPAO system does the room analysis it measures the sonic signature of each home theater in other words it measures how each frequency sounds in our respective HT's . This data is also stored on the RAM's of the DSP processor.
The people who have Yamaha Avrs , this is done when you run the YPAO setup and the AVR emits short frequency Bursts . A lot of people are not aware of the fact that along with things such as Studying the FR response of each speaker and things like speaker distance and speaker angle the ypao system also takes down a sonic imprint of your room.
Now this Data is processed in accordance with extremely complex algorithms by 32 bit floating point Dsps and in this processing a unique signal correlation and a frequency based data is generated and stored on the RAM and here we are talking about a really fast process at around or over 2 MIPS , This correction and correlation data is generated after comparison with the original measurement data stored on the ROMs . Finally the L C R LS LR signals are processed according to this data and later error correction is applied . Now each frequency should sound like it sounds in an original theater. There has been a lot of effort and time span of over 10 years gone in collection of the data in making Yamaha cinema dsp possible and for those who think this is random echos and ambiance you have no idea as to what this really is

At the end i would say that the only bad thing about yamaha is that they have not put up a detailed explanation of adjusting the cinema DSP parameters on their AVR manuals .
So Guys who have YAMAHA avrs keep tweaking the settings , you will get some very very outstanding results with this because i have and i enjoy them and according to me no other Brand can touch the Sonic signature of Cinema DSP
 
.......BTW, Sony speakers of the 90s era were'nt that bad ... they were'nt mass market stuff during that period.

I do not have a lot of info regarding my Sony SS-GN88D bookshelves, my experience with them over for the past six months have been quite positive to say the least. I low balled the hell & got them nearly spanking new condition at INR 1.8K.:D

I find them very musical & tonally well balanced in character and in the terms of SQ only can easily compete with basic entry level audiophile stuff. This is not to imply that they are exemplary products but still comparatively better than Wharfedale Vardus 300 or Yamaha NS-8390 floorstanders. The wharfe is all bass and nothing else where as the NS-8390 is better tonally balanced, but lags behind these bookshelves in terms of musicality & detailing.

Mind you these floorstanders cost within INR 16K which is a meager sum for a quality floorstander indirectly indicating they are specifically designed to cater movies rather than intricate music listening. Comparing my puppies with Yamaha NS-8390 & Wharfedale Varadus floorstanders, I found the Sony's much better in terms of overall performance & musicality. To my own surprise after these comparisons my friend who owns a brand new Yamaha RX-V667 + Yamaha NS-8390 said he will be more than happy to exchange his music system for my 15 year old Yamaha DSP-A2070 + 10 year old Sony SS-GN88D bookshelves.:p

These bookshelves are very big & heavy and are actually something in between a bookshelf & a floorstander. They were introduced back in 2000 with the Sony MHC-GN88D Mini-HiFi system . On release this system used to cost at around INR 45K and was probably the most costly Mini Hifi system ever released by Sony India.

Sony MHC-GN88D
inaudiovideoelectronics.jpg


MHC-GN88D was a five speaker system, the main left & right speakers were SS-GN88D's where as the rest three are center & effect speakers. The sub was optional and was not included in the original package.

These SS-GN88D's are rated at 150 watts @ 6 ohms each and though I was a lot skeptical about these figures, when I started comparing them with the NS-8390 I was simply awed about how much power they can handle. Connected with my Yamaha DSP-A2070 amp the Yammy floorstander's 8 inch bass driver will start chuffing at around 40% volume @ 8 ohms where as these Sony's will pull clean even at 50% volume @ 6 ohms at start chuffing at 60% volume. Mind you a 6 ohms speaker are generally much louder at a certain volume level than a 8 ohm one coz it can handle more power. But this is not to imply that the NS-8390 are not good enough, actually NS-8390 have amazing performance for its mere price of INR 13.5K.

Sony SS-GN88D

13203444732724063242son.jpg


13203444732724063243son.jpg


Sony SS-GN88D Speaker specification :

Speaker System: 3-way, 4-units, bass-reflex type (magnetically shielded)

Speaker Units:
Subwoofer : 8 inch X 1
Mid range : 3 inch X 2
Tweeter : 2 inch X 1

Rated Power : 150W per speaker
Nominal Impedance : 6 ohms
Dimension: 265 X 415 X 320 mm
Mass: 8.7 kg approx per speaker

Exploded View of SS-GN88D

explodedview.jpg


Another aspect that impressed me a lot is the speakers high sensitivity. These SS-GN88D definitely have very high sensitivity, coz they can be hell loud at very low volumes. I found the highs are much better resolved & mids are more warmer compared to these floorstanders. SS-GN88D's are very well balanced & can produce decent stomping bass with its dedicated 8 inch long throw bass driver & I can feel the bass waves travelling through the walls & floors of my room & rattling the windows. The Norge Millenniums will beat these babies in terms of a little warmer mids & better detailed highs & then loose out on the bass aspect.

The SS-GN88D's are a little bit on the brighter side, so when I first paired it with the Norge 1000 amp, the sound though very musical was a tad too bright. Norge 1000 is a bright sounding amp having sound signature similar to marantz.

Next when I bought the Yamaha DSP-A2070 amp and paired them immediately it became evident it was a perfect match. Gone where the overly bright nature of Norge & now I was getting the characteristic Yamaha 80's & 90's smooth & flowing natural sound with solid & authoritative bass, warm mids & velvet smooth highs.

These bookshelves can be amazing loud without ever loosing the bass/mids/treble proportions even at high volumes. My friend who works at Sony previously gave me a wrong quotation regarding their price few months back, but later on searching through their catalogs and talking to their sales persons stated they used to cost INR 16K back in the year 2000. So indirectly these bookshelves used to cost more than these floorstanders.

His suggestion is to keep these bookshelves since what Sony sells as of now are crap compared to these babies. Undoubtedly the quality of Sony music systems have gone down rapidly over the years to an extent that they now sell 5.1 speaker system at 5K to compete with Chinese products. Change of times my friend.:D

Even when the next model of Sony MHC-GN88D arrived, i.e MHC-GN100D, every one complained for the lack of bass & mids compared to the former.

I have also auditioned my DSP-A2070 with those awesome B&W 800 Series Diamond floorstanders. After auditioning I believe 800's have the ability to produce decent sound even out of crap amplifiers. They have this level of awesome awesomeness.:eek:hyeah:

Needless one has to be a highly retarded baboon to compare between these awesome B&W 800's with plane Jane Sony SS-GN88D to say which one is better.:D

Frankly I am not one of them.:lol:
 
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After reading this information provided by rishguru. I ended up aquiring all 3; the dsp-a1000, 2070 and 3090. All costing less than 200 on Ebay. Just wanted to see how it would compare to my M&F A5. Remember I am not ineterested in its HC - this is dated. I am only looking at the 2 channel side. The good news is that they all sounded positive. The sound was lot bigger than there watts rated (80W pc). Delivery was big bold and very smooth like NAD amps - but slightly more detailed. When compared to my A5 the sq lived upto it. Out of the 3 ; the DSP-1000 is the best for audio. I will continue with further testing and keep you updated.


After further testing all of the units go far beyond there rated power. It simply blows away my Quad 303 pre-amp and 404 power amp - not enough reserve. Audiolab 8000a, Marantz 7200 KI, Cyrus 8Vs2 with PSX and Finally Musical fidelity B1 - All these amps mentioned (previously owned)could not produce enough slam to satisfy my needs but however all the yammys produced earth shattering bass which was bit of a surprise - this is probably down to that titanic power supply connected via those large capacitors. Not even once the yammys sounded out of steam you could basically turn it pass 11 and it kept on going - was scared after. The sound is nice and silky smooth with good authority especially on the bass side. Next will compare with my M & F A5.

Yamaha A1000, 2070 and 3090 - which one?

The story continues with these 3 Yamahas that I recently acquired from eBay. All 3 Yamahas sounded great but I found that especially the 2070 and A1000 had even more headroom than 3090. Between 2070 and A1000 there was very little differences but I noticed A1000 was touch more refined which suited to my taste but this can be subjective. They all had similar characteristics; warm, smooth, big, bold, dark, energetic approach very like valve sound which I particular fancied .

Amps generated - front channels only

A1000 - 149 amp continuous peaked at 190 amps
A2070 - 143 amp continuous peaked at 184 amps
A3090 - 127 amp continuous peaked at 167 amps.

Current ratings are high, so in respect all 3 Yamahas should able to drive even difficult loads. Since A1000 had the biggest drive I continued with my research around this amp.

Musical Fidelity A5 versus A1000 - Battle of the titans.

Sound Quality

Both amps had huge presentation that could fill a medium to large room. Although both amps
had immense drive but their sound properties were some what quite different. The A5 was more open but less wide and had solid state feel While the A1000 was more neutral and natural which leaned more towards a tube like feel. The A1000 had more drive in low frequencies without masking mids and highs. The A5 was quite even throughout the spectrum but occasionally lost focus on highs - strange but through. The Yamaha felt more relaxing and pleasing to the ears and yet it was opposite with A5. However they both performed well in all types of music and handled complex pieces with ease. The timing, dynamics, and clarity on both amps were Excellent - I could not separate them. My heart goes towards Yamaha because it had more civil and sensible approach.

Power and drive

The A5 (250 watts per channel) on paper seemed a lot more powerful than A1000(80 watts per channel) but this wasnt the case in reality. I had this funny feeling that Yamaha only based this calculation on average rating but the huge one box solution had lot more muscle under that bonnet. My guess would be that A1000 was at least hitting in the peaks of around 160 watts per channel and wasnt far behind the A5. I still felt that the bass was deeper, tighter and fuller on A1000 than the A5 but on the other hand the A5 had the extra drive which put A1000 to its limits. Nonetheless, the Yamaha had enough guts and reserve to even challenge the mighty A5 in the power department. The A5 carries the extra current and charge which beats the A1000 in this area but not by much.

Damping factor under test

A5 - better than 130
A1000 - better than 137

Technology

A5 is a pure audio amp that is based on dual mono technology. A clever design.
A1000 is over- engineered AV amp that performs quite well with both audio and AV.

Conclusion

Both amps performed well in their own rights. But however Yamaha A-1000 will never be recognised as a true audio amp as the product was purely designed for HC. The logo AV will put many audiophiles off and in no way would have this at the heart of the centre. For mass market this would be an ideal amp as this would cream many sub 1000 (audiophile standard) amps. On eBay this can be picked up for merely 50. Highly recommended.

Equipments used:

Marantz CD94 mkII
Jamo oriel speakers
kimber speaker cables
Wireworld interconnects
Box standard power cable (A5) as A1000 is equipped with captive power lead.
 
After six months of acquiring this old 7.1 channel Yamaha DSP-A2070 integrated amplifier out of sheer curiosity I opened the cabinet of this huge amplifier in my off time and did some nooby analysis all by myself. Please do pardon me if there is any error in my analysis.

After about two days of tinkering with this amp plus reading the entire service manual, I reached to the conclusion that the power output claims of this amp and all those of 80's & 90's era where more truthful to their actual output capabilities than those of todays. Let me share the findings with this internal shot of DSP-A2070:

p1010680marked.jpg


Back in 1993 Yamaha advertised this DSP-A2070 as their Top Of The Line[TOTL] amp costing $2000. On release it immediately own the coveted EISA award for the best performing home theater system. It is capable to provide 100 watts @ 6 ohms each for the main left, main right & center channels while only 26 watts was provided for the rest four channels.

One has to remember this total of max of 100X3 + 26X4 = 404 watts @ 6 ohms is available through out the 20Hz to 20KHz audio frequency range having THD levels less than 0.015%. When a company rates their amp say at 1kHz, this usually means a full bandwidth(20Hz-20kHz) measurement will be about 15-20% lower. Also keep in mind this amp weighs a hefty 21 kilos.

The Power Supply

DSP-A2070 consists of two discrete power supply units designed to satisfy two entirely different requirements.

The Smaller Power Supply

The smaller one is marked in white rectangle(pic above) situated at the extreme right bottom corner, being dedicated to power the pre-amplifer module, the Digital Signal Processing(DSP) circuits, amp's protection circuits & all the LED's.

The Bigger Power Supply

The second power supply unit consist of an humongous EI core step down transformer which can be found in the violet rectangle(pic above) being completely dedicated to the power amplifier section alone and are assisted with huge power capacitors(the biggest I have ever seen) as shown in sky blue & blue rectangles(pic above).

This transformer is over 5 inches tall, 6 inches wide and is rated at 800VA or 800 watts weighing nearly 8.5 kilos alone. I have never seen such a huge transformer in an reciever and if I compare the whole of the currently available Yamaha RX-V471, 5.1 channel receiver with 105W (6ohms, 0.9% THD) (1kHz, 1ch driven) rated power output claim, weighs a mere 8.2 kilos. So, as I found out the DSP-A2070 transformer alone weighs more than many new recievers as found today. :p

This transformer is assisted with four power capacitors. Those bigger pair of 4 inch tall lug type capacitors(clamped with the frame) shown by the sky blue rectangle(pic above) on the upper top corner are rated 22,000uF each and takes care of main left, main right & center speakers. This means an additional 44,000 joules of energy are stored and are readily available with the power supply in order to handle the dynamic peaks of music. Equates to 44000/3 =~ 15,000uF per channel rated at 100 watts each.

To provide an analogy my Norge 1000 stereo amp rated at 125 watts per channel uses just 9,400uF capacitance per channel. DSP-A2070 have almost two times the capacitance of Norge in order to handle the dynamic peaks per main left, main right & center speakers.

Coming to the rectangle in blue(pic above) I find the other pair of capacitors rated at 8,200uF each being dedicated to the four effect speaker channels. This means an additional 16,400 joules of energy are stored and are readily available with the power supply in order to handle the dynamic peaks of music. So we have 16,400uF capacitance for these 26X4=104 watts.

So, I ended up with a respectable 800 watts transformer and 60,400uF of capacitance dedicated to help the transformer if ever it runs out of juice at extreme high volume levels. Yamaha claims just 404 watts from all these 7 channels.

The Power Transistors

For the Main left, Main right & Center channels

The power amplifier module of thie DSP-A2070 uses discrete/solid state technology. It uses a pair of Toshiba 2SA1302/2SC3281 power transistors in push pull mode for each of its right, left & center channels. These transistors are marked in light brown rectangles(pic above) in pairs.

Looking at their spec sheet I found out each of these transistor pairs are capable to produce 150 watts of peak dissipation thus easily pumping out a genuine 100 watts of continuous power without crossing the SOA limit. Considering the fact that these transistors have roughly 50% efficiency(actually they are more efficient) , each of these pairs will be requiring at around 200 watts of power from the power supply i order to produce 100 watts of power for each channel while the rest 100 watts being dissipated/lost as heat.

Summing up these 3 pairs of transistors for the right, left & center channel will require 200X3=600 watts of power from the power supply to produce 300 watts of max power in total which equates to 300/3 = 100 watts per left, right & center channel, all channels being driven simultaneously.

For the Four Effect Channels

Yamaha used a pair of Sanken 2SA1726/2SC4512 power transistors in push pull mode for each of the four effect speaker channels shown in the brown rectangle(pic above). Each of these transistor pairs can easily pump out 26 watts of continiuous power without even comming close to their SOA limit. Again if we consider these transistors having roughly 50% efficiency, each pair will require 52 watts of power from the power supply in order to produce 26 watts of power to each of the channels, the rest 26 watts being dissipated as heat.

Four pairs of transistors for thsee four channels will require 52X4=208 watts of power from the power supply in order to produce 104 watts of max power in total, which equates to 104/4 = 26 watts for each of these four channels all being driven simultaneously.

The Heat Sinks

Even before I consider this amp is truly capable to deliver a genuine 404 watts of continious power, I had to consider how the rest 404 watts of total heat generated from all these 14 power transistors can be dissipated properly. Looking at the dual row of heatsinks, each above 4 inch tall and nearly 12 inches long I came to the conclusion that this amp must be producing a lot heat, and since it produces a lot of heat a equal amount of lot of power is produced and provided to the speakers.

Calculations

Total continuous power providing capability of the power supply = 800 watts (excluding the power capacitors)

Total power requirement from the power supply in order to produce the manufacturer claimed 404 watts = 600 + 208 = 808 watts.

At least from a technical point of view it seems this DSP-A2070 meets the demand of its power amp section in full measure and are actually capable to deliver a true 404 watts of continuous power output, throughout the entire audio bandwidth (20Hz~20kHz) @ just 0.015% THD with all the seven channels being driven simultaneously.

Until now I have not even considered the reserved 60,400 joules of capacitance of those power capacitors waiting to lurk whenever & ever if there is more need of power. The outcome with this amount of dedicated capacitance is that the DSP-A2070 comes with full 2.0dB of dynamic headroom @ 6 ohms. Very few TOTL AVR's can ever match this figure.

This means you will never feel the amp is running out of juice and will provide 404 watts of steady continuous power @ 6 ohms with all channels being driven simultaneously and in extreme circumstances(say full volume) will jump up to 600 watts for a moment (without even considering the transformer's internal capacitance) to handle transient peaks of a complicated music composition when heard in full blast.

IMHO the points to consider about an amp's real power output capabilities are :

1) The weight of the amplifier/ AVR in question. Heavier means more power.
2) The size & weight of the transformer. Bigger & heavier means more power.
3) The amount of capacitance available from the power capacitors. More is better for better dynamic headroom.
4) The heat sink size. Bigger means more power.
5) The power transistors in use & their max power output capabilities.

---------------------------------------

Please feel free to add your own inputs.
 
What a huge huge thread!!! It took me a whole day reading your analysis and trying to understand all those technical jargons regarding the amplifier. Technically am weak and understood very little but I really enjoyed you subjective analysis. It seems A2070 is a great amplifier with great sound quality.

I am a newbie here and in the world of hifi so went on through the different pages of hifivision stumbling on this one. It seems we both live in Kolkata. If you ever think of selling it please notify us by PM. I and my Dad are very very interested in this A2070.

Also can you tell us where we can buy (second hand) good amplifiers in Kolkata? I have gone to Chandi Chowk and found local made ones which I do not intend to buy.

Since I am a student my budget is very limited so I want to settle for good second hand amplifiers for my Sony speakers. I have also peeked at your Norge 1000 amplifier plus Sony speaker thread and thinking to buy one. How can I buy it in Kolkata?
 
What a huge huge thread!!! It took me a whole day reading your analysis and trying to understand all those technical jargons regarding the amplifier. Technically am weak and understood very little but I really enjoyed you subjective analysis.

Welcome to hifivision arpit. :)

It seems A2070 is a great amplifier with great sound quality.

It indeed is.

It seems we both live in Kolkata. If you ever think of selling it please notify us by PM. I and my Dad are very very interested in this A2070.

I have recieved this request over a hundred times in many forums, but unfortunately it is not for sale. It is a kind of amp which you want to keep. These are very rare monsters having obsolete multichannel technology but are very melodious and well suited for analog stereo music. Even the DSP modes are music centric and i really enjoy them too. These amps have great phono stage which we sometimes miss in recent AVRs.

Secondly, DSP-A2070 was the top of the line multi channel amplifer of yamaha back in 1993 so naturally the product just oozes quality. Mine is sixteen years old and in top notch condition, not even a single crackle from the volume, bass, treble, balance control knobs, the switches works perfectly.

If one is in a mood to swing just crank up the volume to 12 o'clock position and immediately you get astonishing levels of power intertwined with excellent sound quality with out a hint of strain.

Few months back I thought to change the power capacitors and sent it to an expert, only to be returned back since those audiophile grade Nichicons caps lasts for more than 25 years.:D

He just changed the tiny super cap which is used by the micro controller of DSP-A2070 and charged INR 500. He said he had to do something in order to charge me!!!

I have a recent Yamaha RX-V596 too, maybe some six years old and it crackles every time I put hand on it.

Also can you tell us where we can buy (second hand) good amplifiers in Kolkata? I have gone to Chandi Chowk and found local made ones which I do not intend to buy.

Look at classfield websites. You may find some good offers there, but remember we live in Kolkata so you have to be really lucky to get one.

Since I am a student my budget is very limited so I want to settle for good second hand amplifiers for my Sony speakers. I have also peeked at your Norge 1000 amplifier plus Sony speaker thread and thinking to buy one. How can I buy it in Kolkata?

Go to the norge webiste, you will find there contact number. They will let you know about the detailed procedure of procuring one.

Best of luck!!!
 
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