4 CDP's

@ajay - as you are the OP of this thread, I appreciate your focus. That was my opinion on what people should (like me) should look for. take it if you like it. In your setup, in your house CDPs may actually be much more handy than a hdd source. Not in my case as my little kid likes to scratch them on the floor, so they are all in a hiding. Same is the reason for cassettes not being able to come out of hiding. I can pull them out only once in a while. But a hdd/ dac based source can be hidden well inside a cabinet and only need a remote to access the song/ cd I want to listen to. And why would I buy a CD spinner? For the in-between time of a new CDP till it is ripped, and once in a while for the pleasure of holding a real thing in my hands :)
 
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I have not completely understood the point you are making. I always thought providing a digital-in port and letting the CDP be used also as a standalone DAC could be done in a CDP (of any level) at a slight addition to the cost, without a lot of trouble and without having any significant detrimental effect on the audio quality of either usage. I do not have a lot of technical knowledge and am obviously missing something. Please explain.

Asit, I might have missed the point. I am not against CDPs having digital in. In fact I cannot imagine it causing any harm to the overall sonics of the CDP. If you ask me I would say it should be there in every CDP:). Unfortunately that is not the case. If I have to take a rough estimate, only 3 CDPs out of 10 has a "digital in" feature as of today. So, if digital in becomes a criterion, one is clearly limited by the number of CDPs he can choose from the market. Hence to keep it simple and straight, if you are chasing after the best sounding CDP keep other things in the "Good to have" list and go for the BEST.

@ Dr Bass - those looking to derive more value from their investment, enhancing life of the equipment in their homes, specially if the love the signature of the cdp (99% of it would be in the dac) and considering the amount of time invested in auditions and determining synergy with their system and room - can not be dismissed as non serious non audiophiles.
Unless you are saying all CDPs that have digital IN are BS products, not even worth considering, unless you want yourself to be risked of being "labeled" as non serious non audiophile in forums.

Let me put it the other way, I want a kick ass DAC that also spins CDs once in a while - because that's where the future is.

@anm, my statement regarding "serious audiophiles" was just to emphasize or say de-emphasize the "digital-in" factor in a CDP purchase process. As long as you buy a CDP which wins your heart sonically you are in the right direction IMO. Asking for more is not at all a bad habit;). I just hope you take things in the right spirit, I do not intend to question anyone's seriousness as an audiophile, at all.
As far is this "99% of it would be in the dac" is concerned, I am afraid this is far far away from truth. While it is difficult to categorize the contribution of a Transport to the DAC, it can vary from 60:40 to 25:75. A safe guess would be 35:65. That is the reason, till this day a simple computer based transport is far from a simple yet dedicated CD transport when it comes to overall sonics. If transports didnt have much effect, computer would have taken over long long back.


I sympathise with the viewpoint of Dr.Bass,that one should not loose one's focus.If the objective is to find the best sounding cdp within a particular budget,then whether it has a digital IN or not,should not be a primary consideration.Of course,if a cdp was provided a digital IN,without adding to the cost substantially,or being detrimental to the sound quality,then there would be an added incentive to buy that cdp.But we should remain focused on whether we are committed to cd's and want the best cdp,or is our preference slowly shifting towards a Dac.In which case,why bother with a cdp?Trying to achieve too many objectives,often leads to nothing being achieved eg,(5.1)
But as Asit has pointed out, there does not seem to be any reason why adding a digital IN should diminish the appeal of a cdp.Between two identical sounding/priced cdp's,I would prefer the one,which also gave me the option of directly connecting to a source,streaming lossless files.

@Ajay,
You got exactly what I wanted to say.
 
..99% of it would be in the dac...

Thats what I used to think as well untill I found out what really a transport can do.. they make a huge impact.

if possible do go through this thread . While there are many views, it at least brings about as to why reading an audio cd is not just about 0s/1s
 
@ajay - as you are the OP of this thread, I appreciate your focus. That was my opinion on what people should (like me) should look for. take it if you like it. In your setup, in your house CDPs may actually be much more handy than a hdd source. Not in my case as my little kid likes to scratch them on the floor, so they are all in a hiding. Same is the reason for cassettes not being able to come out of hiding. I can pull them out only once in a while. But a hdd/ dac based source can be hidden well inside a cabinet and only need a remote to access the song/ cd I want to listen to. And why would I buy a CD spinner? For the in-between time of a new CDP till it is ripped, and once in a while for the pleasure of holding a real thing in my hands :)

anm, you have a clear reason for preferring an HDD based playback. As stated earlier, you should get the best possible DAC for your money. If you try to invest the same in a CDP with a digital-in, your HDD playback will be only half as good. IMO it is not a better value. As Ajay said, focus on which way you want to go and get the best equipment for it. You get the maximum pleasure and obviously the perceived value is much higher as well.
 
Dr. Bass,
Thanks for the clarification. I understand your statement now. Somehow, your previous post could have been interpreted as the standalone CDP without a digital-in facility being superior to the one with this facility. I was confused about that, because within my limited knowledge I could not find enough justification for that.

It's true that most CDPs at any level do not come with this facility, and in my opinion they should, as you also have opined. Yes, surely, if one is looking for the best sounding CDP within one's budget, ideally one should not be constrained to find one with a digital in. However, it's so much nicer to have one with that facility. I actually do use the digital-in of my CDP, not for pure audio though, but for movies. I downstream audio of my DVDs (the few I have) to 2-channel LPCM and feed that to my CDP through the digital-in which in turn goes into my amp after the digital-to-analgue conversion. I know for avid videophiles this is a serious compromise. But we at home are very happy watching occasional movies like this.

Regards
 
@ajay124 -

it has been my thinking that the .1 of a system is meant to be felt through the seat of one's pants?

so, nature should have given us 5 ears and a sensitive bun?:lol:

there is a post somewhere on the forum where a device is described that passes the punch to the listener's seat via a mechanical 'butt pad' like contraption. forget the name, though!
 
I think if I speak any further, it would be a repetition of my earlier posts. So I hope others who might want to derive value from this discussion, they have my viewpoint.

anm, you have a clear reason for preferring an HDD based playback. As stated earlier, you should get the best possible DAC for your money. If you try to invest the same in a CDP with a digital-in, your HDD playback will be only half as good. IMO it is not a better value. As Ajay said, focus on which way you want to go and get the best equipment for it. You get the maximum pleasure and obviously the perceived value is much higher as well.
 
We keep reading and using words like 'jitter','timing',"word clock','sampling','over sampling'"noise floor'....Apart from discussing cdp/dac subjectively,can we also discuss them technically,to find out what is actually happening inside them?
Any volunteers,for a temporary,unpaid,(except thanks) :) position of Professor Emeritus for Digital Audio Conversion?

From the Stereophile article-"The jitter game"
Stereophile: The Jitter Game

"digital audio data is useful only after it is converted to analog. And here is where the variability occurs.Presenting the correct ones and zeros to the DAC is only half the battle;those ones and zeros must be converted to analog with incredibly precise timing to avoid sonic degradation."
"Sampling is the process of converting a continuous event into a series of discrete events. In an analog-to-digital (A/D) converter, the continuously varying voltage that represents the analog waveform is "looked at" (sampled) at precise time intervals. In the case of the Compact Disc's 44.1kHz sampling rate, the A/D converter samples the analog waveform 44,100 times per second. For each sample, a number is assigned that represents the amplitude of the analog waveform at the sample time. This number, expressed in binary form (one or zero) and typically 16 bits long, is called a "word." The process of converting the analog signal's voltage into a value represented by a binary word is called "quantization,"
"All that is required for perfect conversion (in the time domain) is that the samples be input to the DAC in the same order they were taken, and with the same timing reference. In theory, this sounds easyjust provide a stable 44.1kHz clock to the A/D converter and a stable 44.1kHz clock to the D/A converter. Voil!perfect digital audio."

Also a transport of delight....and degradation
Stereophile: A Transport of Delight: CD Transport Jitter

"the timing of those ones and zeros is of utmost importance. It isn't enough to get the bits right; those bits have to be converted back into music with the same timing reference as when the music was first digitized. It turns out that timing errors in the picosecond (ps) rangethe time it takes light to travel inchescan audibly degrade digitally reproduced music"
"the jitter's spectral content affects certain sonic aspects differently. Jitter can be randomly distributed in frequency (like white noise), or have most of its energy concentrated at specific frequencies. The jitter's characteristics probably determine each transport's sound. Is this the mechanism behind the different sonic signatures of CD transports?"
"different DAC architectures (1-bit and multi-bit) respond differently to different jitter levels and the spectral distribution of that jitter. The identical word-clock jitter could produce different sonic effects, depending on the DAC and the manner in which its word clock has been recovered."
 

there is a post somewhere on the forum where a device is described that passes the punch to the listener's seat via a mechanical 'butt pad' like contraption. forget the name, though!
Ashok, there are two popular products - buttkicker and bassshaker which are low frequency transducers.
 
ajay - you may look at naim unitiserve (that takes a CDP and digitizes it), or naim uniti

NaimUniti - high performance all-in-one audio player from Naim
@Anm
Naim seems to have a good reputation(bolstered by glowing reviews in Whathifi:naimcyrusroksan!Their favorite song!).But my impression is that the Uniti is another one of those products which tries to do too much.More a lifestyle product than an audiophile one.For that kind of money,2000 pounds abroad,and the Indian prices known only to God and Mr.Marbin Colah,I could get an Accuphase cdp from Boomarang.
 
Interesting.Would have tried it,but it's Window's only.And I am an Apple or nothing user:)

Then you should try out the Airport Express optical out into your DAC. Simple, hassle free solution. I use it with the analog out into my amp, should sound better through a dac. Was reviewed by one of the mags, got a good review, stereophile I think?

Yes I use a Mac to stream ;)

regards
 
I too have used it with a Mac with pretty good results. it has a high amount of Jitter though, so if you have any of the anti jitter devices, you will benefit from it.
 
The iMac is part of my 'mini' system.Connected to a Cyrus 6VS2 and Onkyo book shelf's.Chord Silverscreen cables.Decent sound.I have ripped 70+CD's into Apple lossless files,but mostly use this set up for You Tube,iTunes internet radio stations and watching DVD's.
Decent sound,but I intend to replace the Onkyo's with a Sonus Faber/Totem/Spendor/Proac book shelf.High senstivity,clean sound.Waiting for a good deal.No hurry.
Or possibly a Lyrita 845 set and Harmony 1 or Harmony 2 speakers.
 
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The iMac is part of my 'mini' system.Connected to a Cyrus 6VS2 and Onkyo book shelf's.Chord Silverscreen cables.Decent sound.I have ripped 70+CD's into Apple lossless files,but mostly use this set up for You Tube,iTunes internet radio stations and watching DVD's.
Decent sound,but I intend to replace the Onkyo's with a Sonus Faber/Totem/Spendor/Proac book shelf.High senstivity,clean sound.Waiting for a good deal.No hurry.
Or possibly a Lyrita 845 set and Harmony 1 or Harmony 2 speakers.

sonus faber please!
 
announcing a sad death -

happyguitaristandconked.jpg

By witchesofsound at 2010-11-14
 
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