Accuphase is home

[ranjeetrain]

Clearcut, your right about Accuphase. The brand needs to be appreciated more as its products are seriously good, fuss free w r t system matching & are built to last.

I concur. For the kind of price performance ration they offer, Accuphase needs to be appreciated more.

The Accuphase is a nice sounding product, but I feel it is just to polite & gentle.
There is no signature to Accuphase; It just plays.
Some would say that is good that it stays out of the way, but it is just too polite & gentle - almost like a SET - without the mid range 'bloom' !

I feel on the contrary. IMO, Accupahse are good value in their league. There are many mega buck amplifiers out there, some 10x the price. I don't think those big boy with big names and price tags offer as much value as these babies do.

WRT the sound, it sounds exactly like an IDEAL amplifier should be. Transparent, neutral, having no sound/no signature of its own. But I understand why it may not be liked by some people. Some people like bland food, some like oily and spicy. It's down to personal preferences. There are no rights and wrongs at this end of the spectrum. It's all down to personal taste and matching components.

 

[malvai]

^^^
Spot on Ranjeetrain. I feel the same way.... also after the Accuphase E460, I am feel its going to be very tough to upgrade.... as to do better would mean spending at least 3-5 times more. and even then, the slightish improvement would not justify the price difference....

 

[ranjeetrain]

Totally agree!

There comes a point, beyond which there are no significant upgrades, only sideways moves, which result in changing the system characteristic. It can be due to whatever, the upgraded component itself, or the trigger it sets of upgrades in the chain.

Change is good. People like change. That's why there will always be upgrades. But like you said, upgrading from here will be very expensive. Even then, no significant upgrades, just change in the taste.

 

[arj]

Do hear it with the harbeths once..I have never heard it but feel you need something more revealing and dynamic than the harbeth is and for the price a dyn or ATC seems like a more natural choice among the brands I can think of.

But again personally have not really been too much a harbeth sound guy so my comments can be taken with the proverbial pinch of salt !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ranjeetrain]

Do hear it with the harbeths once..I have never heard it but feel you need something more revealing and dynamic than the harbeth is and for the price a dyn or ATC seems like a more natural choice among the brands I can think of.

Hear that. I am trying for home audition, as I don't wanna take this amp on a speaker hunt with me. If I have to make a blind call, I will try it to be an educated one.

 

[dinyaar]

Hello Ranjeetji,
You have finally bought a good amp
Now please keep it!!!
I am the worst person to talk accuphase & everyone knows I love them. I had the 350/450 and now have the 460 with a thiel (must go asap) and at home I have the C2110/ P4100 with the Focal Diablo.
Please try this amp with a focal thats in your budget and one that suits your room. I guess an Electra.
Have tried them with most speakers that I like. (B&W, Dyna, spendor, Proac, Avalon, thiel, Focal, Quad ESls, Totems, Thiels...... and a few that I cant remember) plus have heard a fair amount of accuphase combos with various other speakers (including Bhagwans Tidal) and I feel its an absolutely superb product.
In fact I dare to say The focal Diablo sounded the best to me with the accuphase. Bhagwan has heard it a couple of times and he can chime in as he travels the world to listen to HIFI and his thus is exposed to everything thats out there. Actually the 250/350/450/550/460 all sound very different to my ears so I dont know what you guys mean by the accuphase sound??? Bhagwans set up and my set up sound very different and so do other accuphase set ups in different rooms.
Rgds

 

[longshanks]

accuphase and focal is indeed an amazing match.

 

[bhagwan]

In fact I dare to say The focal Diablo sounded the best to me with the accuphase.

Bhagwan has heard it a couple of times and he can chime in as he travels the world to listen to HIFI and his thus is exposed to everything thats out there.

Actually the 250/350/450/550/460 all sound very different to my ears so I dont know what you guys mean by the accuphase sound ???

Bhagwans set up and my set up sound very different and so do other Accuphase set ups in different rooms.

To start, I like DK's set up.
It plays well.
DK & Bhagwan both have small rooms & they are 'difficult'
All said, the result that DK has managed in a small environment is 'super' !
I respect him for his efforts & the result he has achieved.

I have heard Accuphase in the past - different places & it was me that suggested PTC to take on Accuphase.... I have always held Accuphase in high regard;

I have actually heard the JM Labs Utopia [several models] with different amplifiers but never with Accuphase.
Luxmann generally enters with Vivid Audio

In fact CES 2013 Accuphase entered with Ktema from Italy - Mr. Franco's new company - ex Sonus Faber - pictured here :-



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

They had entered with JM before - that pic is here :-



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This was @ CES 2012 [last year]

All said, my E-550 [Class A] Int Amplifier has a 'different' tone from the Class A / B Amplifiers that Accuphase makes.
So, it depends on the individual's preference for sound....

 

[Asit]

Good to hear from dinyaar after a long time. I have heard dinyaar's system more than a couple of years ago. At that time he was living temporarily in a largish apartment in Breach Candy (very near the American Consulate) while his main apartment was getting refurbished.

His amp at that time was an E-450 driving his 805s. The source was Yamaha 2000 CDP. Since that was a temporary arrangement, I suppose the whole set up was perhaps not optimized to its best potential with respect to cabling etc, if I remember correctly.

The sonics were good - not the most resolving, not the most dynamic, but very fluid and easy on the ears. I think we started with Mark Knopfler - his recordings, I find, are always very bass heavy. After a few of dinyaar's choice, I started playing a few of my audition recordings - mostly on Indian classical.

Later dinyaar moved on to E-460 and then to pre-power, if I am not mistaken. From numerous discussions with him, I understand that dinyaar does not like forward sound, he also does not like anything that is a tad bright - he likes flowing music that is not hard on one's ears. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If the expectations are as above, Accuphase in general will be very satisfying, I'd guess, based on that experience. These amps are very very solidly built, and sonics have a good tonal balance.

However, I feel these amps are very expensive - but in high end audio it is more what suits one than the VFM quotient.

My sonic demands are slightly different from dinyaar's - for me the Accuphase amps are too polite. In addition, I'd never have the money to buy anything from Accuphase, not in this life.

So I guess it totally depends on one's preference. When one is into this level of equipments, I do not think it is correct to say - this is right and that is wrong.

BTW, I had a great dinner at dinyaar's that evening.

Regards.

 

[bhagwan]

After a few of dinyaar's choice, I started playing a few of my audition recordings - mostly on Indian classical.

Accuphase in general will be very satisfying, I'd guess, based on that experience. These amps are very very solidly built, and sonics have a good tonal balance.

However, I feel these amps are very expensive - but in high end audio it is more what suits one than the VFM quotient.

My sonic demands are slightly different from dinyaar's - for me the Accuphase amps are too polite. In addition, I'd never have the money to buy anything from Accuphase, not in this life.

So I guess it totally depends on one's preference. When one is into this level of equipments, I do not think it is correct to say - this is right and that is wrong.

Rather well summerised;

I too agree with most things that you have stated.

a]
Accuphase is a bit too Polite - good for some people & certain kind of speakers.

b]
Accuphase is too expensive - I personally cannot justify its price - 7.25 Lacs for a 30 watt Int Amp [My E-550] is just way too expensive.

c]
Build Quality is A + [some of the best built audio gear in the world] - nothing Chinese about it....

O.T. Indian Classical = Good Recordings - what can you suggest ? Please...

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Asit , Bhagwan & all
Asit am glad to see u are still active. I just logged on to HFV after a long while and saw my friend Ranjeet ji getting the 350 and thought I must congratulate him.
Asit the B&W 805 is no match for the focal Diablo. The tweeter on the diablo is pretty much in a different league. Even the so called diamond tweeter (actually not really diamond at all) of the 805D does not do what this speaker does. Agreed both accuphase & focal utopia are very pricey but then I hardly paid full retail so I cant complain. Yes when we met at my home I had the 450 which is easily bettered by the 460. Not even a close call. NO BLOOM or HEAVINESS rather not what one expects from an accuphase. Believe u me its not polite at all. If i get more than this it will not be music rather maybe 'drama' is more it and honestly I would not be able to digest that. Now to my ears the pre power easily bettered the 460 and hence I jumped at it. I still get the 460 to my home from time to time & I truly feel the power amp has something that the integrated hints at but cant quite muster. The 460 is driving a thiel 2.4 at my maternal uncles home which is soon going to be replaced by a focal electa 1028(i think thats the model of the floorstander).

Bhagwan I like your sound a lot too. But again I am biased towards accuphase. Bhagwans set up is more laid back as compared to mine. His tweeter is tooooo refined while the focal is a bit more raw. Now this is a real diamond tweeter made by accuton & itself costs more than many high end speakers!!!!!What I find amazing is how the accu does the bass. Full, rich bass.

Ranjeet please try a focal with the accuphase before u make a final choice. Another thing to note is a new (unbroken) focal can sound pretty pathetic so please verify how much the speaker has been used. My diablo sounded very very different on day 1 from what it sounds like today after 6 months or so.

Rgds

 

[Asit]

Dinyaar,
I am not very active these days on the forum. A lot has happened in my life, mostly positive, and as a result I hardly find any time. Whenever I find some time, I rather spend it on doing music myself or listening to music.

It's very nice to have you back here interacting in this thread again. Your IC still connects my Nakamichi RX505 deck to my amp. You may not know, about a year and a half ago, I added a TT (Scheu from Germany) to my system, because my old TT basically died on me.

I can only imagine the sonics you might be getting with your current system. Hope to hear it some day, but these days I am not traveling to Bombay very frequently. I heard a few Focals with Macintosh pre-power in Singapore last summer on my way back from Australia.

I always enjoyed your comments, and hope you find time to interact here more frequently.

Bhagwan,
Let's see when I find a bit of time to prepare a short list for you, but given your knowhow, you may already know of the ones I'd write.

Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Din bhai, forget all else, I am happy that you logged in today. I don't see some of the best hifi brains here these days. That makes me feel a bit lonely. I am so glad you are here today.

Thanks! Thanks!! Thanks!!!

I have no idea after how many amp auditions exactly this amp is with me. Luckily I got a dealer who gave me a sweet deal. Otherwise even I am not so open handed that I would splurge unabated. But I am fully satisfied with this purchase. Till now I haven't even for a moment thought I have spent extraneously. This amp deserves every single paisa I paid for it.

@Asit, bhagwan, dinyaar, everyone else here

I am not surprised by any of the comments regarding the Accuphase. In fact, this is the only amp that will indeed sound different with different speakers, at different places, and in different rooms. No surprises there. The whole signal path despite multiple push-pull stages is so pristine, the volume control is so noiseless, everything about this amp is refined, it really leaves no print of it's own in any setup. It just let others do all the talking. And this amp is my dream amp in the sense that

(1) It is pure and pristine. No messing with the signal you feed.
(2) It's powerful. It may have modest specs but doesn't lack drive.
(3) It's stylish. It's styling in neither understated nor over-the-top. It just hits the right chord on all aspect in looks department. Even the Vumeters are a beauty.
(4) Connectivity options are superb. I don't think I'm ever gonna need more
(5) If at all I want to go that way, I can use add-on boards to make a great all in one system.
(6) It's not expensive. (Okay it is, but it doesn't need selling both kidneys, selling one is enough )

Overall, what a lucrative proposition this amp. I am a value for money guy. I audition some very good stuff. But don't buy everything I audition (I have only two kidneys, remember? )

About the speakers for this amp

All my experience I have with Focal is with Electra BE 1007 and upper models. I have heard them with Marantz (Top of the line, reference series), Luxman (Middle of the line). With Marantz I was satisfied with the synergy but felt the sound was too forward, and too sweet (without losing any details). It was like listening to an all tube gear even as there was no tube to be seen in the chain. I know this description is a bit weird, but I can't really describe it better. On the other hand, with Luxman, the combination just sounded too bright. The details pumped out by Luxman made the Beryllium tweeter in the Focal screech so much, it became unbearable for my taste. I guess it may be worth having a look at Focal again with Accuphase. I was guessing that Accuphase might feed so much to Focal's tweeters that it will become unbearable (to me).

From the discussion so far here, it is again abundantly evident that different people like different sounds. Even if they might actually be listening to the same genre and same artists, they might actually be drawing pleasure from vastly different sound signatures. It is no wonder, different people have different opinion on the same product.

As for my taste, I like open and warm sounding speakers rather than bright. Warm is sometimes used by people to express lack of details. I don't mean that here. Neither do I accept dark, veiled sounding setups. But at the same time, high frequency overload annoys the hell out of me. I can't stand bright systems even for an hour (at reference level).

I didn't like DynAudio Confidence. Not because it wasn't good. Rather because it was too good. It sounded like nothing else. Even other DynAudios don't sound same as Confidence. It's like the ear hear the same song in a totally different tonal makeover. So different that it sounds alien. It's like looking at the wall hanging in the room that you everyday see, albeit in an entirely different lighting condition. So different from what you are used to that it seems to be new, different.

Looks like the speaker hunt will take long. Though thanks for assurance on Accuphase-Focal partnering. Focal is well priced in China. If Focal can float my boat, it will be home with Accuphase too.

@dinyaar, btw, how was your experience with Theil?

About the amp

Accuphase came across to me like a obedient student, brought up in military discipline. A what a great amp that would be which will do it's job without spilling a drop here and there and without losing a coin on the way. It seems like a dream amp. At least for the moment it's so.

Is this the final frontier? Is this my last amp, from which I will never upgrade?

I don't know. Honestly, I don't. May be I will, may be I won't. But even if that happens, that would a very hard decision to make.

But change is good. Too much of any thing is bad. Too much of good is bad too. May be some day I upgrade from this amp just because it's too good. May be I start feeling it's boring to be so neutral. Let's see, if that happens. And we will all know when that happens!

@bhagwan

Thanks for all the Accuphase pictures. These set ups are so beautiful. Need space like those to have a setup like that at home.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
Asit am glad all is well with u. Same here. Just happy with my set up so have stopped most 'HIFI' mumbo jumbo!! Stopped reading about gear & related and have hardly ever logged on here. Actually my other love i.e motorcycles has once again taken over as there are some lovely machines available officially (finally!!!) and one is not put off with shoddy paperwork. Bought a nice Ninja 650 in sept 12 and that has been after missing a big bike ever since I sold my last Honda SBB in 2007. Meanwhile guys like Bhagwan keep giving me so much of fantastic classical music (fantastic recordings) that I just sit back & enjoy the music without any tinkering really. U are welcome when in bbay.

Ranjeet thanks for your comments. "Best HIFI Brains" well that I am surely not!! Thanks anyway.
Build quality of the accuphase is second to nothing. It just plays. I have recently seen (heard) vintage accu amps looking & sounding pristine so though expensive its a 'sound' investment.
I did not like the THIEL/ ACCUPHASE pairing in my room for sure. Gave back the Thiel 2.4 in less than a month. Does not have the mids I want and the passive radiator just didnt work in my room with a bloomy 450 I had then. Gerry the merry is actually using exactly the same combo in his room so he will chime in too. Actually have been on his case to sell the speaker and he must be tired of hearing this. I feel an accuphase is just not coming thru with a thiel if u get what I mean. Loads of other speakers that are mentioned in this thread will work better in my opinion.
See bhagwan has had such a lot of gear of such pedigree that a simple integrated will definately not float his boat. I have heard a few of his set ups & the comparison is a bit unfair as I thought the DCS in the chain was spectacular. Not that the DAD is bad, far from it but that the DCS dac, pre were superb feeding the canasya. Maybe we will hear a good cdp into the accu 550 into the tidal & see / hear what it can do??? That said even his his most challenging room the set up plays well.
Rgds

 

[ranjeetrain]

Yeah, I read about his ex-setup in the other thread. Very impressive indeed. But his investment is also impressive. Each equipment costing more than a complete average system. Its bound to sound that good.

I am resisting the temptation. Its easy to go high, difficult to come down, if you know what I mean. You start feeling weird after having heard your favorite songs at a certain level and when you come back home it feels like you are playing wooden boxes.

Good to read your comment on Accu+Thiel. I was considering Thiel, I'll save the trouble now.

I didn't know you were in biking. If I knew I could 'help' you Never mind, now you can get your goodies easily, so that's good.

Btw, have you heard the Electra 1027/1037 BE? If I get the model number correct, I had a great opportunity to buy a 1037 BE in a great condition. I let go as I thought asking was too high. Are those significantly better than 1007? I guess I am asking, are the Focal floor standers made well enough to be considered? Or bookshelves serve better?

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

To start, I like DK's set up.
It plays well.
DK & Bhagwan both have small rooms & they are 'difficult'
All said, the result that DK has managed in a small environment is 'super' !
I respect him for his efforts & the result he has achieved.

I have heard Accuphase in the past - different places & it was me that suggested PTC to take on Accuphase.... I have always held Accuphase in high regard;

I have actually heard the JM Labs Utopia [several models] with different amplifiers but never with Accuphase.
Luxmann generally enters with Vivid Audio

In fact CES 2013 Accuphase entered with Ktema from Italy - Mr. Franco's new company - ex Sonus Faber - pictured here :-



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

They had entered with JM before - that pic is here :-



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This was @ CES 2012 [last year]

All said, my E-550 [Class A] Int Amplifier has a 'different' tone from the Class A / B Amplifiers that Accuphase makes.
So, it depends on the individual's preference for sound....

But was it the "polite sound" that you have tagged accuphase with?

 

[dinyaar]

Yeah, I read about his ex-setup in the other thread. Very impressive indeed. But his investment is also impressive. Each equipment costing more than a complete average system. Its bound to sound that good.

I am resisting the temptation. Its easy to go high, difficult to come down, if you know what I mean. You start feeling weird after having heard your favorite songs at a certain level and when you come back home it feels like you are playing wooden boxes.

Good to read your comment on Accu+Thiel. I was considering Thiel, I'll save the trouble now.

I didn't know you were in biking. If I knew I could 'help' you Never mind, now you can get your goodies easily, so that's good.

Btw, have you heard the Electra 1027/1037 BE? If I get the model number correct, I had a great opportunity to buy a 1037 BE in a great condition. I let go as I thought asking was too high. Are those significantly better than 1007? I guess I am asking, are the Focal floor standers made well enough to be considered? Or bookshelves serve better?

Hi Ranjeet
In my non technical opinion I feel that u need a brute of a power amplifier i.e Bryston, krell etc etc to control the Thiel loudspeaker. I have heard many thiels with various integrateds including the Accuphase E 460 which is a superb little amplifier and I find something missing. When I heard say a Bryston 7B or even my old 4B drive a thiel the speaker performs well. Even then the 'tone' of the popular bryston thiel combo is not something that I like but I can see why others may like this dry , dynamic combo.

I am and have always been a biker. I have machines which date back to 1987 which is basically the time I turned 18 & i retain most of them Since u also have a passion for bikes let me also tell u that I am looking seriously at a 2 year old Honda CB 1000 which if the price is agreeable I will get asap. Any gyaan on bikes is always welcome. Just bought the 2012 ninja 650 and its a great VFM machine. Longish rides on sunday mornings in & around Maharashra / Gujarat are a blast.

Unless U really have a BIG ROOM the 1037 is too much of a speaker. 1027 is a better match. Prices of all Focal are attractive here locally as the importer is Preeti trading Co (Kamal Dingreja) and he tends to offer close to international retail rather than the standard 30/40/50 % mark up. I first heard my speaker the Diablo in Lyon, France & loved it with Mac & & the price there in Euro is about 25% more than what I paid at my doorstep!! But that was an introductory price for the first Diablo brought in I was told. Me, my family & some friends have bought a load of Accuphase / Esoteric gear & its all been from him so I guess the long association lead to good prices. The Electra bookshelf is good relatively but the diablo is more boxless and airy. Plays almost full range with conviction and is a largish speaker. Am a bit out of touch so am not sure if the 1007/1027/1037 are all current models or have been upgraded. The Focal floor standers are surely well made and a very popular buy but I had to have a book shelf for lack of space & hence this choice.
Rgds

 

[vinay]

Asit Sir,

The effort of making more money in us should always be in action mode, be it under or over age.

One never knows when something very good will happen per our desire therefore action mode is a must.

V.

I'd never have the money to buy anything from Accuphase, not in this life.

 

[Hiten]

Congrats ranjeetrain !
No experience in high end stuff but home audition of speakers will be icing on the cake.
regards

 

[ranjeetrain]

I am and have always been a biker. I have machines which date back to 1987 which is basically the time I turned 18 & i retain most of them Since u also have a passion for bikes let me also tell u that I am looking seriously at a 2 year old Honda CB 1000 which if the price is agreeable I will get asap. Any gyaan on bikes is always welcome. Just bought the 2012 ninja 650 and its a great VFM machine. Longish rides on sunday mornings in & around Maharashra / Gujarat are a blast.

Unless U really have a BIG ROOM the 1037 is too much of a speaker. 1027 is a better match. Prices of all Focal are attractive here locally as the importer is Preeti trading Co (Kamal Dingreja) and he tends to offer close to international retail rather than the standard 30/40/50 % mark up. I first heard my speaker the Diablo in Lyon, France & loved it with Mac & & the price there in Euro is about 25% more than what I paid at my doorstep!! But that was an introductory price for the first Diablo brought in I was told. Me, my family & some friends have bought a load of Accuphase / Esoteric gear & its all been from him so I guess the long association lead to good prices. The Electra bookshelf is good relatively but the diablo is more boxless and airy. Plays almost full range with conviction and is a largish speaker. Am a bit out of touch so am not sure if the 1007/1027/1037 are all current models or have been upgraded. The Focal floor standers are surely well made and a very popular buy but I had to have a book shelf for lack of space & hence this choice.
Rgds

Hi Dinyaar,

You are playing in the big league now. CB 1000 is a dream machine. Despite my liking for powerful machines I wouldn't ever get it. GXR 600 would be my top. Till recent times (4-5 years ago) there hardly was a road for bikers, in NCR. All roads were full of potholes (atleast wrt to biking) whereas you need real good roads for biking. Luckily things have improved now and on stretches like DND flyway, Greater Noida expressway, Taj Expressway biking would be super fun. Mumbai, Pune and Hyderbad have had lots of bikers in the past. Join the team BHP if you haven't already done. It's great fun being with them.

I will give Focal a serious thought. However, I always find myself left wanting with bookshelves. Compression and lack of dynamics takes a lot off the music and I don't like it. I have played with Focals but not enough to form an opinion about them. May be I should avail more opportunity to hear them.

One way definitely is to hear them in existing setups such as yours where you are matching them with an amp from the same line up. So, conclusions formed based on such listening should be very conclusive for me. I am out of India now and missed traveling to Mumbai again due to some unplanned delays on things I had to do in India. So, I need to wait till the next visit, which shouldn't be too far. I'll be in touch about it. If I want a Focal ultimately, looks like you can help me get a good deal.

@Hiten, thanks buddy