Active Crossovers

[psychotropic]

This is idle curiosity (only a remote possibility of any personal benefit, well into the distant future), but I didn't see any thread on this topic and not much information on the forum. I've read that you need an active crossover to realise the benefits of bi-amping or tri-amping. My questions are:

a) what is the advantage of an active crossover (i've read a bit, but not sure i fully get it)....in 'dummies' terms.

b) what are the good active crossovers. there seems to be a behringer one (CX2310) for USD 80, how good is this?

c) what does one need to look at while picking an active crossover?

d) is there a point chucking in an active crossover without multi-amping? is this even possible?

 

[thevortex]

Psychotropic - I think there are a few very good posts by audio_engr explaining exactly this aspect in a thread that I opened in the Speakers section on the EPOS Encore 50 speakers.

Let me know if you are not able to find it. I too found the information and the possibilities fascinating but the cost was, to put it mildly, prohibitive.

 

[psychotropic]

hey vortex, i saw that thread, wanted more info which is why i thought i'd make a new one. Even the Behringer DCX3496 that comes with the Emerald Physics speakers costs only about 300 USD......it's not small change but for someone who has say say spent in the region of a lakh or more on their setup, an additional 15k for an active crossover might be a worthwhile upgrade maybe?

Of course if the 80 USD Behringer active crossover is any good at all, then for 4k and below that might be a worthwhile thing to consider for even audiophiles on a budget.

This whole thought process started with my fantasising about this bi-amped dual-monoblock setup comprising 4 Topping TP20s in bridged mode (or other TA2020 or other chip based cheap amps) an active crossover, and a tube pre (perhaps the Yaqin one).

EDIT - i've found that you can't bridge the toppings, but you could still bi-amp them.

 

[jaudere]

This is idle curiosity (only a remote possibility of any personal benefit, well into the distant future), but I didn't see any thread on this topic and not much information on the forum. I've read that you need an active crossover to realise the benefits of bi-amping or tri-amping. My questions are:

a) what is the advantage of an active crossover (i've read a bit, but not sure i fully get it)....in 'dummies' terms.

b) what are the good active crossovers. there seems to be a behringer one (CX2310) for USD 80, how good is this?

c) what does one need to look at while picking an active crossover?

d) is there a point chucking in an active crossover without multi-amping? is this even possible?

hi,

I am not an expert but i thought about it. i checked CX2310. didn't like it much. You have to biamp or triamp(when you are using 2 way or 3 way crossover respectively). so one amp drives bass, second the mids and third the tweeter.I didn't like the result much but it was not a good place for audition and the remaining equipment was below par as well.

The biggest problem which i though was that this is a pro gear and has TRS/XLR connections. I found it difficult to get RCA to TRS/XLR cables.

Secondly the voltage is different in home audio and pro gear. Not sure but lower in pro. So you need a mixer to provide some gain on signal. the behringer has gain control So no need of mixer.

One important point. this will add a lot of cluttered cables to your set up.

May be this will be of some help. Cranky is an expert in this regard.

 

[sonosphere]

a)advantages:

1. Elimination of inductor for the woofer crossover allows amplifier to directly control the driver. This usually results in much better bass control as the best inductors still have about 0.5+ ohm real resistance.

... amplifiers.

Hi Cranky,
one query pls:
I have a subwoofer that came as part of Onkyo HTIB set. I am not able to connect it to my Norge amplifier as it has no crossover of its own to filter the line-In signal (it recieves pre-filtered signal from the Onkyo AVR). I was suggested on this forum that an active crossover can do the job of filtering the line-in signal suitable for subwoofer (say all freq below 120 Hz).

Can you suggest me an active crossover (I need it only for the subwoofer) costing max around Rs. 3k. A weblink to such xover would be additional help.

Thanks in advance,
Regds,

 

[thevortex]

Cranky - how are we doing on that book on audio gyan?

You know you have a captive market here.

 

[psychotropic]

hey cranky,

sorry to respond to an answer with another question, how would an active crossover 'aimed at the professional market' like any of these behringer ones, compare to a passive crossover that you'd find in a regular speaker? what i mean is....would the mere fact of having an active crossover even if not a high-end one, offer benefits?

b) Most active crossovers aimed at the professional market do not have specs good enough for Hifi. One would look at some of the DIY/hifi products such as the B1 Active crossover, Rod Elliot's ESP product line, and the Marchand/White Noise audio kits.

 

[thevortex]

I dont think a parallel exists in the Indian market, Cranky. A book giving ideas to both DIY'ers and enthusiasts alike may not be a bad idea. And I am actually serious here notwithstanding the smiley

All the best.

 

[sonosphere]

@sonosphere: why would you not want to continue running the sub with the Onkyo? Why is it needed with the Norge?
....
....

Hi Cranky,
Reason: My projections went wrong reg Movie /Music use. I thought it would 50%-50%. Due to my present lifestyle its movie 5%, music 95%. (I can work while listening music, can't work while viewing movie) So my sub is idle most of time. I want to use the sub with Norge-Wharfe 9.2 combo where the music goes really down till 30-40Hz. Hence I need to connect the sub to Norge.

Regds,

 

[sonosphere]

@sonosphere: why would you not want to continue running the sub with the Onkyo? Why is it needed with the Norge?
.....
XM1 Electronic Crossover Network

Hi everybody,
Apart from the link above, contributed by Cranky, I'd be happy to get some Indian market references for active xovers.

Please help me out here...:sos:

Thanks in advance...
Regds,

 

[psychotropic]

more questions, from waht i've read it looks like the 24dB/octave slope on the behringer crossovers is a steep one, is not a steep one less desirable than a gentle slope? or am i misunderstanding the concept?

Btw i spoke with flanker this morning and he tells me uses the CX2310 and finds it really good.

He was telling me how with just my NAD C320BEE and Topping TP20 i could active bi-amp my speakers using the Behringer.

C320BEE's pre-amp to act as the pre.......the stereo signal from the pre to go to the Behringer, the HF out of the Behringer to go to the Topping, and the LF out of the Behringer to go to the NAD's power section, and then speaker cables to the bi-wire/bi-amp terminals of my Usher S520. It might be worth it to try it out without ripping out the passive crossovers first to see if there's an improvement, and then gradually somewhere along the line remove the passive Xover.

This is still a medium term plan......but now that this fairly cost-effective option has been introduced by flanker......i'm getting a bit excited about this.

Eventually of course I am thinking (fantasising?) of 4 toppings (or other cheap chip-amps) in a bi-amped dual-mono arrangement....buwahahaha.....i love being an audio lover :yahoo:

 

[keith_correa]

Eventually of course I am thinking (fantasising?) of 4 toppings (or other cheap chip-amps) in a bi-amped dual-mono arrangement....buwahahaha.....i love being an audio lover :yahoo:

Psycho, found a way to bridge the amp?

 

[psychotropic]

hey keith, the tripaths can't be bridged but if you run only one channel from one amp, the amp has that much more headroom, and flanker tells me that you'll get more power like than from running two channels simultaneously.

Psycho, found a way to bridge the amp?

 

[pramod.fernandes]

Hi Sonosphere, I am new to Hi Fi vision, but not to the hifi and Pro audio world. I have a Studiomaster C180 Active crossover with 5 frequency cards - 80hz, 100hz, 150hz, 200hz & 250hz. I was using it with my pro audio gear when I was into sound rental. I sold all my pro audio gear but kept this back thinking that I would use it someday. It has been more than 5 years now and I hven't had time to make use of it. I am ready to sell it for Rs.2500/- which will also include XLR to RCA cables I had made for it. Please let me know if you are interested. However, I would have the same question to you - Why do you want to use an active crossover with this Onkyo Sub? are you not satisfied with the existing setup?

 

[pramod.fernandes]

Hi Cranky, I admire your technical knowledge and all the more because you freely share it with everyone. Keep up the good work.
One should also use a fusable resistor in series with the tweeter to avoid overload. The value could be 5w, 1.8 or 2.2 ohm. +/- 5%.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Sonosphere,
.... Why do you want to use an active crossover with this Onkyo Sub? are you not satisfied with the existing setup?

Hi Pramod,
I have sent PM to you regarding your Active crossover.

To answer your query, firstly I want to connect it to Norge amp (not Onkyo) since Onkyo is not ON most of the time. (Reason: Refer my reply to Cranky above).

I believe that part-reason for weak bass in Onkyo sub is that it is being fed a weak signal from Onkyo Sub-out. I hope the line-out from Norge will deliver better bass and hence the subsequent amplification from the active sub will sound better.

Regds,

 

[pramod.fernandes]

Hi Cranky,

Thanks for the response.

Regards
Pramod