Adding Power amp to Integrated amp

[heliumflight]

I find Marantz bright, so do listen and decide.

 

[drkrack]

I use MA Silver FS and they are on the brighter side, I found klipsch and Polks way more brighter in my setup. MA are sharp and highly resolving which translates into a better stereo image apart from adding to the brightness. I have been partially able to tame the brightness.
Things that worked for me were adding a vintage preamp (without tone control) instead of Schiit Sys, using OFC copper speaker cables. Source /DAC do matter a lot, as well as toeing angle, basic acoustics like covering 1st reflection points needs to be taken care.
MA produce very decent bass which makes them ideal for dual usage scenarios like HT & stereo.

I find Marantz bright,

Yes very much, but way controlled than Pioneer, Onkyo and Yamaha.

 

[eastofthesun]

Does adding power amp to an integrated amp which has a pre out make any difference to the sound quality? which amp remains dominant in sound signature? Need some help here.

hi , I used to have a integrated and power Accuphase set up... and yes in my opinion and to my layman ears there was a discernable difference when i added the power amp. Later on i decided to upgrade to my current set up where i use my DAC as a pre and have a dedicated power amp.
regards
Anand

 

[Naturelover]

I think you should look at the cables first. There is a lot you can do with cables to get the sound to suit your preferences. Since it is with both your sources, start with speaker cables.
What cables are you using now? Interconnects and speaker cables.

 

[rpmahale]

I have auditioned MA Bronze 5 with Pioneer VSX 9xx series AVR and Bronze 6 with Marantz SR6012/13 in past. I found them to be incredibly detailed and insightful in micro details range, which may some time sounds bright if properly not met with IC, source, DAC or amplifier. Room acoustics also play its role in defining the characteristics of set up. Most of FM has suggested different solutions to tame the brightness and which works if properly apply. It's better to check the sound signature step by step by replacing each component in chain start with banana plug/speaker cable/amplifier/speaker. Use bare speakers wire initially for few days , change speakers wire with which are on warmer side, use amplifier tone control, advoide MP3 sources, try different slow or relaxing music which is easy with ears and last carry your speakers for audition with different set of amplifiers

 

[captainrizal]

Things that worked for me were adding a vintage preamp (without tone control) instead of Schiit Sys, using OFC copper speaker cables. Source /DAC do matter a lot, as well as toeing angle, basic acoustics like covering 1st reflection points needs to be taken care.
MA produce very decent bass which makes them ideal for dual usage scenarios like HT & stereo.

Thanks Drkrack, For me MA are too bright. Yeah i need to change my rack position as well. Actually its in one corner of the room. The speakers are not very close to the wall and room has big windows. It's actually in my drawing room.

 

[captainrizal]

Use bare speakers wire initially for few days , change speakers wire with which are on warmer side, u

Thanks. Sorry I could not get you. What do you mean when you say bare speaker wire. Do you mean wires without its skin? Which speaker wire sound warm? I did not know speaker wire could make so much of difference in sound stage.

 

[captainrizal]

used to have a integrated and power Accuphase set up... and yes in my opinion and to my layman ears there was a discernable difference when i added the power amp.

Yeah I try to do the same. I am getting a pre owned power amp in decent price. So i will give a try and see if it makes any difference or i will go for Floorstanders.

 

[rpmahale]

Bare wires means wires without banana plugs. Sometimes banana plugs also make sound signature bright. There are Chord company, VDH, Audioquest, QED etc have different speakers wires , you may ask FM to help you in that...

 

[sanjivnayak]

Yeah I try to do the same. I am getting a pre owned power amp in decent price. So i will give a try and see if it makes any difference or i will go for Floorstanders.

I bet you will definitely like it. Even I found most liked in similar situations.
But when you use an expensive gear, you will hardly find any change.

 

[raghupb]

IMHO the pre and the power should match. In case of integrated amps, the pre and the power stage is factory matched and will give the best sound. Using the pre out to another power amp need not be better, but can be if the power amp paired is matching with the pre. For eg I have tried to use the pre amp of my NAD 3020 to a more powerful Nad power amp, a THX certified one. The combi had huge power, huge sound, but hearing the 3020 with its own power amp was way more pleasant to listen to.

Not necessarily. I have been running pre and pwr from companies whose entire philosophies mismatch, let alone design.
And the combo is good. It just takes a bit of spec reading and lots of listening to come up with the optimal pair up for your listening tastes.
Power amps, as the name signifies, leave the user with loads of headroom required for finicky speakers and varied content in music/sound.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[sanjivnayak]

What spec to be seen in preamp (or integrated used as pre) and power amp? In case of integrated amp, impedance level of pre-out never found in spec sheet.

 

[newlash09]

IMHO the pre and the power should match. In case of integrated amps, the pre and the power stage is factory matched and will give the best sound. Using the pre out to another power amp need not be better, but can be if the power amp paired is matching with the pre. For eg I have tried to use the pre amp of my NAD 3020 to a more powerful Nad power amp, a THX certified one. The combi had huge power, huge sound, but hearing the 3020 with its own power amp was way more pleasant to listen to.

Actually this should not be a problem with digital sources and pre amps and amplifiers. In the old analogue days, the main source was vinyl with a miniscule signal coming into the phono stage and then being amplified in the tube pre amp and then the power amp. Thus there was limited gain available in the entire chain. Thus, if there was a impedence mismatch between the output of the tube pre, and the input of the tube power amp there were Sq issues. So careful impedence matching was required, and this included interconnects too.

In todays digital world the dac's are already outputing a 2v signal, and some like the chords have an option of even 3v output. This is a huge signal gain at the source level. So the pre amps are not actually amplifying the signals these days, but are actually truncating it. And this is also the reason why we are having many passive preamps these days, without any amplification stage at all. So this makes it easier for the preamp to match the poweramp, unlike with tube or pure analogue gear. However, if were to plug a TT into your chain, youd still need to match the pre and power carefully. But for digital sources not so much.

In fact most tube users will report sound quality gains when changing the output from their chord dacs from 2v to 3v. As this gives the tube preamp more headroom to match the impedence mismatch of the poweramp.

Just my 2 cents

 

[hifitoaster]

Does adding power amp to an integrated amp which has a pre out make any difference to the sound quality? which amp remains dominant in sound signature? Need some help here.

It depends on the synergy between your power amp and the integrateds pre out. There is no concrete answer for this. You have to try out. Most of the times its better but can also go other way. If you use the same brands same series but only higher model numbers with more power then your signature may stay the same. I have myryad z142 / z162 connected in blamping as my floor Standers demands it.

But with smaller speakers I had tried, it was almost indistinguishable between the integrated direct out and the power amps out.

Similarly arcams integrated offers also power amps for more power from integrated.

But personally I think a proper good pre and higher power amp which is rated higher than the integrated and the power together is a better pick.

 

[captainrizal]

Bare wires means wires without banana plugs. Sometimes banana plugs also make sound signature bright. There are Chord company, VDH, Audioquest, QED etc have different speakers wires , you may ask FM to help you in that...

Thanks. I can try without banana plugs in that case. My speaker cables are from Audioquest.

 

[spirovious]

Posting technical link again-
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain

 

[newlash09]

Thanks. I can try without banana plugs in that case. My speaker cables are from Audioquest.

Banana plugs or any cable terminations are not required unless you change components frequently and need a quick change over. In all other cases, bare wire will work just as fine or even better without these banana plugs and spade terminations. Just remove the wires once a year, and clean them with deoxit and lightly brush to remove any oxidation. And they are as good as new. Expecting that a one inch banana plug at the end of a 3 mtr wire is going to make a world of difference to the sound is pushing my imagination too far

 

[newlash09]

It depends on the synergy between your power amp and the integrateds pre out. There is no concrete answer for this. You have to try out. Most of the times its better but can also go other way. If you use the same brands same series but only higher model numbers with more power then your signature may stay the same. I have myryad z142 / z162 connected in blamping as my floor Standers demands it.

But with smaller speakers I had tried, it was almost indistinguishable between the integrated direct out and the power amps out.

Similarly arcams integrated offers also power amps for more power from integrated.

But personally I think a proper good pre and higher power amp which is rated higher than the integrated and the power together is a better pick.

I would agree with hifitoaster completely. My main front speakers in my HT are of 90db sensitivity. So when i run them direct from my modest marantz or through a powerful 160w external amp, the sound is completely indistinguishable. So unless the speakers are hard to drive or demanding, adding an external amp has no sonic gains. And yes there is no change in presentation too, as the sound signature is still dictated by the preamp to a very large extent.

 

[edjamesx]

Does adding power amp to an integrated amp which has a pre out make any difference to the sound quality? which amp remains dominant in sound signature? Need some help here.

It depends on your speaker capabilities... If you are currently driving with speakers with less than actual speaker RMS watts..
Then driving with power amp >= speaker wattage power will give you clean & nice sounds.

In other cases mostly there will not be much difference.

 

[bornfi]

I did the same with my NAD C352 integrated and in my experience/opinion, in any integrated, companies pay more attention to amplifier than on preamplifier. What I would recommend is that if your source has volume control, connect it to power amp of your Arcam first. If you like what you hear, that will give you an answer and if you don't then you can try what you proposed.