Adjustable Attenuator / resistor volume pot for bi-wireable tweeter

[corElement]

I've been doing some research on how to tame a tweeter that goes too far in a bi-wireable speaker and I'm curious to know

What's the difference between

A. Putting an Attenuator /resistor volume pot directly on the speaker cable before it connects to the tweeter binding post in this picture below

And

B. When I connect it after the crossover, but prior to the tweeter leads inside the speaker enclosure. (Ideally I would not like to do this as I don't want to disturb the internals of the speaker as it uses expensive parts which I can't afford to replace, pic of internals below )

In my head a pentometer/resistor/volume control knob is just controlling the current flow / db, so wouldnt both scenarios produce the same results where there's just a reduction in DB, or are there other variables?

Also, what is a "Trap" in a crossover?

 

[GeorgeO]

Here's my take-The pot before the crossover doesnt affect how the crossover functions as a filter. Any component inserted after the crossover will affect it.

 

[corElement]

Hmm, if that's the case then the external application of a pot would make more sense for me I think, since I want to retain the sound signature but simply reduce the gain of the tweeter by say 3db or so.

I don't know much about pots or resistors but my speakers are 91 db @ 4ohms with 120w short term 170w long term values. What type of POT or resistor should I be looking to get? There are a lot of different specifications and most I'm finding are 8ohms.

From what I know my d830 seas excel tweeter is 6ohms and the seas excel 6.5" woofer is 3.3ohms however the tweeter has little or no restrictions in the crossover and as a result it goes too far and sounds unbalanced

Another issue is the custom seas woofer is also known to be very aggressive. It is crossed over at 2500 which given the drivers tendency for aggression is said to be too high and a lot of people have said that these particular drivers have huge untapped potential and sound like gold when crossed over lower than 2500, however I don't know if I want to do that because it would mean overhauling the crossover network entirely and I don't know anything about physically constructing a crossover.

Another solution some people online have mentioned is adding a "Trap" for the woofer in the crossover, I have no idea what this is and how this is implemented, but that's a different topic all together, main one is the resistor/volumepot/attenuator/potentometer/L-pad (BTW are all of these the same?)

 

[tirthankar]

Another option will be to use hyperlitz type speaker cable and configure them for bi-wiring in such a manner that less gauge of wire is used for the tweeter. This way you wont be tampering the signal but control the signal energy being sent to the tweeter and mid/bass

 

[corElement]

Another option will be to use hyperlitz type speaker cable and configure them for bi-wiring in such a manner that less gauge of wire is used for the tweeter. This way you wont be tampering the signal but control the signal energy being sent to the tweeter and mid/bass

Can you give me an example of a configuration you're talking about please?

 

[tirthankar]

Taking the example of the cable image attached

There are 3 pairs of 17awg, 2 pairs of 19awg and 2 pairs of 21 awg wires.

For example, for a two way speaker, you can use two pairs of 21 awg for tweeter, and the rest of the pairs for mid/woofer. You can use other arrangements as well, based on your requirements of how you want to distribute the signal energy sent across to the driver and tweeter.

 

[corElement]

Very interesting, I did some reading up on this right now and what I've made out is that single core 22-28awg wire with teflon coating is better than all the massive 10-20awg multistrand cables out there. VERY interesting, and also why ethernet cables make good speaker cables because all the cables inside are shielded with teflon. And also the thinner the core the more bass because of higher resistance. Very interesting! So basically, as thin as possible solid core shielded wires proportional to their ohms over long lengths for stationary wires!

This has completely changed my understanding of cables!

However at the same time, I think this eliminates option 3 you suggested tirthankar. But this has definitely contributed to my understand and future choice of cables!

 

[keith_correa]

Very interesting, I did some reading up on this right now and what I've made out is that single core 22-28awg wire with teflon coating is better than all the massive 10-20awg multistrand cables out there.

Can you point me/us to where you read this?

VERY interesting, and also why ethernet cables make good speaker cables because all the cables inside are shielded with teflon.

Not completely true. Not all ethernet cable strands are teflon coated.

And also the thinner the core the more bass because of higher resistance. Very interesting! So basically, as thin as possible solid core shielded wires proportional to their ohms over long lengths for stationary wires!

Can you point me/us to where you read this?
And what do you mean by stationary wires?

 

[keith_correa]

Try using single strands of CAT5 wire for wiring the tweeter terminal. Of course YMMV.

 

[santhosh]

Hi corElement,
Please don't tinker with your d830 just yet. I have heard its older brother, the Concert 11 and is a very good speaker with smooth highs. If it is sounding bright/top heavy, try changing other components in your chain first.

I know you do not want to touch the crossover. But IMO, to attenuate the highs you will need to change the L-pad value in your crossover network. Try this online L-pad calculator (go to end of page), to arrive at the required attenuation.

http://ccs.exl.info/calc_cr.html

 

[corElement]

Can you point me/us to where you read this

I'm still reading and trying to assimilate the information in my head. But these two places summed it better than other places

The Naked Truth about Interconnect Cables
The Naked Truth about Speaker-Cables

This finally let me understand why nordost and taralabs rsc cables are as thin as paper!

Not completely true. Not all ethernet cable strands are teflon coated.

Ah I see

And what do you mean by stationary wires?

Wires that dont go through regular constant connecting and disconnecting and curling. Single core wires apparantly easily break.

Try using single strands of CAT5 wire for wiring the tweeter terminal. Of course YMMV.

Interesting suggestion, might be worth a shot, however I doubt a solid core / thinner wire will achieve the result I'm looking for, but let's see.

If anyone has any suggestions what kind of pentometer/resistor I should be looking for, they are most welcome!

 

[corElement]

I had an awesome idea which would have worked if cambridge audio would have linked two inputs to work together to feed the two pairs of loudspeaker terminals on my ca840a.

I could have gotten an active crossover and directly controlled the crossover from outside. But since CA did not put / allow two inputs to work together, I guess it wont he happening.

Would have been awesome to be able to use an active crossover in my situation though, two birds with one stone.