Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
What I am feeling is that at -35 DB the spl has increased and bass too. Still hungry
Advice on Pre Power Amps with Klipsch RP -8000F
- Thread starter Vivek Batra
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arunkvivek
Well-Known Member
Pulling back the couches and removing center table would surely help! Did you try it?
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Would try over the weekend.
superczar
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Glad to hear.
I was getting tempted to pick the x4500 from you
Also, add me to the stupid bandwagon as I had audyssey switched off for many years on my old AVR because I was sold on the audiophile idea that any post processing kills the originality of the sound !
While true in a perfect world, the volume levels we use and the less than perfect acoustics of our rooms mean that good post processing is anyday better than none.
Also, here are a few other suggestions.
If you have an ipad (even an old one will do) , buy an app called deremote on the app store.
It will let you manually tweak all the levels and processing algorithms off a single screen and without a delay as is the case when doing it via the setup menu so A/B testing becomes easier.
Alternatively, you can open the IP address of the AVR in your browser and apply the tweaks from there to see what suits you.
Also to add, DTS Neural or DD+ post processing can make your audio sound richer esp at low volume levels
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Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Life is all about learning.Glad to hear.
I was getting tempted to pick the x4500 from you
Also, add me to the stupid bandwagon as I had audyssey switched off for many years on my old AVR because I was sold on the audiophile idea that any post processing kills the originality of the sound !
While true in a perfect world, the volume levels we use and the less than perfect acoustics of our rooms mean that good post processing is anyday better than none.
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
I will give you d modes a try as well I do use the IP way but never stick to sound mode for more than 2 minutes but that's not the way. Thanks for all the help. BTW you may still pick the AVR from me It's too much options for me.
Does it work with non Audessey AVRs (read Pioneer)?
superczar
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Deremote is an alternate (and i think better/faster) third party app for Denon/Marantz AVRs that support IP based control
Since it uses Denon/Marantz shared protocol, it won't work for Pioneer although I guess Pioneer AVRs with IP based control would have their own app from Pioneer
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Another thank you note for suggesting Dynamic Volume. Right now I am listening to FM tuner and even - 40db is very much good level for me and I am not sitting in a pin drop silent room either. Eralier I used to bump up the same channel to at least -30 DB. Depends on the signal as well at times but a noticeable difference for all the sources.Glad to hear.
I was getting tempted to pick the x4500 from you
Also, add me to the stupid bandwagon as I had audyssey switched off for many years on my old AVR because I was sold on the audiophile idea that any post processing kills the originality of the sound !
While true in a perfect world, the volume levels we use and the less than perfect acoustics of our rooms mean that good post processing is anyday better than none.
Also, here are a few other suggestions.
If you have an ipad (even an old one will do) , buy an app called deremote on the app store.
It will let you manually tweak all the levels and processing algorithms off a single screen and without a delay as is the case when doing it via the setup menu so A/B testing becomes easier.
Alternatively, you can open the IP address of the AVR in your browser and apply the tweaks from there to see what suits you.
Also to add, DTS Neural or DD+ post processing can make your audio sound richer esp at low volume levels
@Vivek Batra
I have some simple suggestions for you.
1.Klipsch for that matter most of the horn speakers are very focused in their presentation .It could even happen that your system is not broken in enough.Once you have ateast 250 hours on them , play around with your speaker position.Follow some of the tips that Prem had suggested in his jbl thread.
--Try to fire the speakers outside your shoulders and drag them into the room by 2 ft and see if its better. Though u have a long room a lot of bass energy is escaping from the opening behind ur listening area and lot of mid bass is absorbed by the couch ...this is forcing u to turn up d volume to compensate for the hollow midrange...A 98 Db speaker should play at insane level with a 2watt amp...my 100db speaker fills a 27by13 ft room by a 1w amp..
--A simple stereo amp ( prefered a tube) is usually good pairing with horns...try to borrow it from ur friend or a dealer.
--I have not heard this speaker, but for lesser designs there are disjoints between the highs and the lows as the horn is very dynamic and woofers fail to keep the pace...
So if your ears can detect it then this design is not for you...Every design has a compromise ..the design that suits ur ears mayn't be a " perfect speaker" ...but it has to be as per ur taste..some like the soup a little spicy ..others prefer it to be mellow and smooth...
The idea is to setup the system to its potential before being judgemental...
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the post. For sure these speakers have not run for 240 hours. But I have moved them from 12 feet wall to 18 feet wall around 8 inch from the wall. They are sounding better now. But as you said these might not be my taste. I need to audition at least a couple of more different speakers to know the difference.
Vivek,
Saw this thread too. Can identify some issues straightaway.
The room and placement are the main culprits.
The towers look like they are gasping for air; hence misbehaving.
Do consider smaller speakers on stands; easier to push-pull to wherever you want them.
Since your primary source is digital streaming, why not change perspective and try a pair of stand mount actives.
KEF LS50W or maybe its sibling KEF LSX may fit the bill and save you a lot of trouble and money too.
I've heard the LS50W; with a bit of space around them and careful positioning they are fantastic.
Cheers,
Raghu
Saw this thread too. Can identify some issues straightaway.
The room and placement are the main culprits.
The towers look like they are gasping for air; hence misbehaving.
Do consider smaller speakers on stands; easier to push-pull to wherever you want them.
Since your primary source is digital streaming, why not change perspective and try a pair of stand mount actives.
KEF LS50W or maybe its sibling KEF LSX may fit the bill and save you a lot of trouble and money too.
I've heard the LS50W; with a bit of space around them and careful positioning they are fantastic.
Cheers,
Raghu
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Hi Raghu
Point well noted and acknowledged. I know I have space issues. May be I need to buy a house with dedicated room to tame my quest for quality.
Hi Raghu
Point well noted and acknowledged. I know I have space issues. May be I need to buy a house with dedicated room to tame my quest for quality.
Music listening sessions are not always dedicated time.
We generally do so doing other things.
I have never been able to sit at the sweet spot and listen.
You do have plans to refurnish the room.
In which case, you may be able to retain your speakers and wing an amp suitable for it.
Klipsch, while a great set of speakers, can be fatiguing for certain genres of music.
You wanted a smooth single malt Scotch, but the current setup tastes a bit like McDowell's whiskey
Cheers,
Raghu
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Good comparision and again you gottcha.Music listening sessions are not always dedicated time.
We generally do so doing other things.
I have never been able to sit at the sweet spot and listen.
You do have plans to refurnish the room.
In which case, you may be able to retain your speakers and wing an amp suitable for it.
Klipsch, while a great set of speakers, can be fatiguing for certain genres of music.
You wanted a smooth single malt Scotch, but the current setup tastes a bit like McDowell's whiskey
Cheers,
Raghu
I'm not sure you are getting the best of your gear, don't be in a hurry to sell them. Give at least 200 hrs before thinking about it.
Klipsch 8000f are quite sensitive, and have very good bass response, you wouldn't need a subwoofer ideally. If your main requirement is music then getting a stereo amp makes lots of sense. Keep the subwoofer and Denon AVR if you want good quality audio for movies as well. I'd tweak in this way of preference.
1. Room - absorption / diffuser at first reflection points, avoiding reflecting surfaces, Thick mat between speakers to listening area
2. Speaker - placement, away from back and sidewall by 3ft at least, sitting triangle, will avoid toeing in completely as they'd be pretty harsh because of horn tweeters ; 6 ft distance between Right and Left Speakers..
3. Source + Synergy of electronics - I'd go with thicker power and speaker cables and possibly a good power conditioner from Furman or @sandyjhyderabad before changing major electronics. The speakers being quite sensitive you'd end up with most of the noise in the power lines getting reproduced faithfully. So buy good speaker cables/interconnect cables /power cables IMHO (unfortunately you'd have to do home audition and decide on what suits your system best).
The buying options will be,
You can use your AVR as preamp and buy a tube power amp, monoblocks to run your very sensitive floorstanders. Other wise a tube integrated with measly 3W should be more than enough for driving the Klipsch. On solid state side I'd look for a sweet sounding amplifier like Rega Elicit R etc. I'd invest in the source/DAC before changing the amplification
I could not read the whole discussion, my apologies if it has already been discussed!
Klipsch 8000f are quite sensitive, and have very good bass response, you wouldn't need a subwoofer ideally. If your main requirement is music then getting a stereo amp makes lots of sense. Keep the subwoofer and Denon AVR if you want good quality audio for movies as well. I'd tweak in this way of preference.
1. Room - absorption / diffuser at first reflection points, avoiding reflecting surfaces, Thick mat between speakers to listening area
2. Speaker - placement, away from back and sidewall by 3ft at least, sitting triangle, will avoid toeing in completely as they'd be pretty harsh because of horn tweeters ; 6 ft distance between Right and Left Speakers..
3. Source + Synergy of electronics - I'd go with thicker power and speaker cables and possibly a good power conditioner from Furman or @sandyjhyderabad before changing major electronics. The speakers being quite sensitive you'd end up with most of the noise in the power lines getting reproduced faithfully. So buy good speaker cables/interconnect cables /power cables IMHO (unfortunately you'd have to do home audition and decide on what suits your system best).
The buying options will be,
You can use your AVR as preamp and buy a tube power amp, monoblocks to run your very sensitive floorstanders. Other wise a tube integrated with measly 3W should be more than enough for driving the Klipsch. On solid state side I'd look for a sweet sounding amplifier like Rega Elicit R etc. I'd invest in the source/DAC before changing the amplification
I could not read the whole discussion, my apologies if it has already been discussed!
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
Hi
All your points are valid. I am just split between too many things in my head. I need to be quite responsible with my moves now. But thanks for pitching in. I am grabbing a lot of knowledge from all of you kind FMs here who are trying to help me.
Vivek Batra
Well-Known Member
I thought McIntosh, PS Audio, Parasound Emotiva and Anthem are the brands one can not go wrong with. But toy surprise no one mentioned about these brands
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Hi Raghu
Point well noted and acknowledged. I know I have space issues. May be I need to buy a house with dedicated room to tame my quest for quality.
A few things I would try (they worked well for me, YMMV):
1. Move the speakers 'into the room' -- leave 4-6 feet room behind the speakers. Leave 2-3 feet distance from the side walls, toe them in slightly - may be 5-10 degrees to avoid high frequency reflection from side walls
2. Play with equalizers (perhaps connect a laptop) and see if sound can improve using just tone controls. In my experience, speaker's sound signature changes with the listening volume so you need to try this at your preferred volume setting
3. Get a dedicated DAC + decent interconnects, tube dac might be a better fit here since you feel mid tones are lacking
4. If possible try a separate power amp (may not help much since they are very efficient speakers)
5. Do all your experiments during afternoon (2-4pm) or late night. Those are quiet times and one can hear details better.
6. Repeat steps 1-5 as needed
Good luck!
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