An evening spent 'tweaking' Avidyarthy's ATL Speakers

[Hari Iyer]

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I saw the wood Veneer walnut link and found there are many shades in that too. What is your preference?

 

[Hari Iyer]

Yes hari a very interesting product.
Do go through the pdf file of the virtual crossover box as well as the review.

It helps cuts out hours of crossover tweaking.

I have found it to be a blessing in disguise

I checked the pdf but will like more information for further thoughts. Does it have all the filter alignments (Butterworth, LR, Bessels, Tebcheveys etc.) and orders (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th). Can we add circuits like BSC, parallel notch, zobels, series resonance, L-pads, Contour networks etc. to this virtual cross-over. How easy will it be to change alignment, phases etc. Only having the filters (low-pass / high-pass / Band-pass) will not suffice our requirements as the other response compensating networks are also equally important as they too play an integral part of the cross-over. For eg. AVidyarthis' cross-over uses 14 passive components in a 1st order network but the actual filter components are only 2 (one inductor and one capacitor) . The rest 12 components are for the compensations required based on drivers free air response / parameters and enclosure diffraction / room contours.


Hope this is also possible in the Virtual cross-over.

 

[corElement]

I saw the wood Veneer walnut link and found there are many shades in that too. What is your preference?

That website appears to be flat sliced veneer.

Make sure wherever you source it from, it's thin enough to curve instead of a hard sheet.

Attached pics to help

I suggest a lighter more contrast imparting variant of walnut as the typical walnut look has little or no visible grain.

For example this type

Instead of this type below

Theres no point in getting wood veneer or anything wooden if it looks like it's painted over once it's polished.


PS, my favourite wood finish is cocobolo, below

 

[prem]

I would not tweak the speaker to the room. I would do it the other way round. That way the speaker design would become more versatile. One cannot go around tweaking each pair of speakers to that particular room.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Nice looking speakers..
Aren't they a bit high for ear level in sitting position?

The tweeter is below the mid-woofer and is exactly at ear-level if you are sitting in a Neelkamal chair . This was done because of 23reasons,

1. I could get the complete length of the Tline as per my design. Off-setting the mid-woofer would have played havoc with the line-length, acoustic impedance and harmonics.
2. I could give a curvature to the enclosure top and there by all the diffraction from the mid-woofer would be evenly spaced.
3. Diffraction from the tweeter above 2.3KHz will be absorbed by a thick 3mm felt material there-by making the mid-range and highs mellow and smooth.

 

[docd]

I would not tweak the speaker to the room. I would do it the other way round. That way the speaker design would become more versatile. One cannot go around tweaking each pair of speakers to that particular room.

I think Prem has made a significant point.What would happen if you want to shift your kit to a different room or change houses? All that effort would be wasted!

 

[anm]

^^^ depends on what is easier and/ or cheaper.

 

[Santy]

Sorry for late attendance. Yes it was a nice time auditioning Hari Iyer's TL speakers. It was really very good and my initial reaction was simply wow. That the speakers sounded at par with branded ones of much higher value. The soundstage was awesome for the given size of drivers. Bass was sufficient enough to shake the P-O-P ceiling causing vibrations overhead. It was very deep, giving a feeling that a subwoofer is hidden in the room. :clapping: The ambient noise was tad too much (too close to a busy road) otherwise it would have been a much better listening session.

Hari has enough experience in speaker design that he could change the specifications based on our feedback, replace and re-solder the components instantly, to see how a better sound can be achieved. As Denom has already summarized, the first configuration seemed to be the best bet, though the bass was overshadowing the other frequencies. Otherwise, the drums / tabla sounded awesome and on to the face. The peerless drivers used are really fast. The vocals were so natural.

In other configurations, Hari was trying to increase the mid and high frequencies to match with the thumping lows by tuning the crossover. But the highs became little harsh and vocals became thin and recessed and the overall sound became quite congested. If the speakers are slightly tweaked as per feedback from various members, it can be made more refined. :clapping:

avidyarthy, I am sure you will not be disappointed at all. Especially when paired with your krell. But not all ears are the same. So we will wait for your comments on these speakers. I do not know which amplifier will be used when you go to hear them? Sansui was really a good amp to test the speakers.

Thanks to avidyarthy for creating a need for all this. To Hari and Vijayan for the hospitality. To Denom for the invitation, ride, CDs, player and amp.

 

[Hari Iyer]

avidyarthy, I am sure you will not be disappointed at all. Especially when paired with your krell. But not all ears are the same. So we will wait for your comments on these speakers. I do not know which amplifier will be used when you go to hear them? Sansui was really a good amp to test the speakers.

Thanks to avidyarthy for creating a need for all this. To Hari and Vijayan for the hospitality. To Denom for the invitation, ride, CDs, player and amp.

I am little skeptical about my setup (Denon AVR & Pioneer DVD). They dont sound even 10% of the SQ compared to Marantz CD Player and Sansui Integrated Stereo Amplifier.

I have also now connected the speaker to my Sony Stereo Amplifier TA-AX44 to check out the difference. But unfortunately the source will still be the same.
Hope Atish is able to judge the SQ with them.

 

[koushikp]

I had a chance to listen to this speaker design in hari's shop and liked it immediately...pity I don't have the place in the bedroom to put them in after all the woodwork..I am actually hunting for a stereo setup myself...talking to Hari to see if a bookshelf fits my needs..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[koushikp]

correction...hari said I actually heard the classic mass loaded TL...these must be way better...still my comment remains...had loved their sound...made me feel bad then also that I won't have the place to keep them in the bedroom..I have to answer to higher powers for that :sad:...plus my 2 year old son is there...who I suspect will become the dark lord when he grows up ..I dread to think what will happen if he tries to practice karate on these

 

[BLASTO]

I am little skeptical about my setup (Denon AVR & Pioneer DVD). They dont sound even 10% of the SQ compared to Marantz CD Player and Sansui Integrated Stereo Amplifier.

I have also now connected the speaker to my Sony Stereo Amplifier TA-AX44 to check out the difference. But unfortunately the source will still be the same.
Hope Atish is able to judge the SQ with them.

Why are you sceptic sir?
The krell will be anyday better than the sansui.. Not slightly better either.. There will be a great difference compared to whatever the speaker is currently exposed to.

Ofcource Avid has to work on the source as it is a highly revealing amp.

 

[avidyarthy]

Got back pretty late from Hari's place last night .... Santy and Denom have already summarized everything about the 'pair'.

So, I do not have anything new in here, all except .... JHAKAAAAS!

Accompanied Hari's elder brother to the carpenter's to finalize the wood veneer and colour. Stuck to walnut finish, a slighty lighter shade as per CorElement's suggestion. What all 'madmen' do to get things their way? ... Mrs. Iyer 'jhelloed' me quite sportingly ... thanks.

Rest .... after 'they' come in to get installed ...

 

[corElement]

yay! so youre in mumbai atm?

 

[navin advani]

How does one get a walnut finish without a veneer though? Colored Polish+ lacquer?

Brazillian Walnut is a common veneer here (in Mumbai). Use it with a natural finish as some tints tend to fade with time (exposure to UV).

I picked up a Virtual Crossover box a short while ago, I got it shipped from the US.

Good for approximations but limited to 2nd order and no Baffle Step.

2. I could give a curvature to the enclosure top and there by all the diffraction from the mid-woofer would be evenly spaced.

Should you not want your difraction spread instead of at one frequency? This way it's effects can be less prominent.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Should you not want your difraction spread instead of at one frequency? This way it's effects can be less prominent.

There will be no diffraction from the tweeter as the reflections from the tweeter is being absorbed by a 3mm thick felt material. The only diffraction will be from the mid-woofer. This diffraction will be even due to the curvature of the baffle. This is also compensated with a BSC circuit to bring it in sync with the tweeter.

 

[ravi_d]

Nice looking speakers there.

Asking out of curiosity. Why are these speakers called ATL as mentioned in the title. Is the design closer to the ATL design from PMC?
Read somewhere PMC's version of TL design is called Advanced Transmission Line (ATL) and Bose's version of TL is called Acoustic mass. What ever the name they give it its all the same.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Nice looking speakers there.

Asking out of curiosity. Why are these speakers called ATL as mentioned in the title. Is the design closer to the ATL design from PMC?
Read somewhere PMC's version of TL design is called Advanced Transmission Line (ATL) and Bose's version of TL is called Acoustic mass. What ever the name they give it its all the same.

Thanks for your comments on the speaker design.

Actually this is an exo-linear TL design where the driver is not off-set (which is so in a classic straight line TL) . In a exo-linear design the driver is at one extreme end of the line and the terminus is at the other extreme of the line. In between the line is filled with stuffing to damp the odd harmonics (standing waves).

The ATL (Advanced Transmission Line) design from PMC is a TQWT design. The Bose TL is called the 'Wave Series'. Acoustic Mass is their 6th Order Band-Pass design subwoofer which goes along with their cube satellites.

 

[BLASTO]

Any current pics? :licklips:

 

[Hari Iyer]

Any current pics? :licklips:

status quo, am travelling to Coimbatore due to office work and am on Vacation till 24th May, any progress will be after that. Should be ready by this month end, but am keeping my fingers crossed.