An Installation

[ajinkya]

But my doubt is with regard to YPAO. If it believes that there is no sub, would it not set the crossover lower (say 60-65hz), so that the "large" front speakers can handle as much of the bass as possible?

Sorry to intrude since Venkat can answer this in much more detail. But a quick reply on your specific YPAO question:
Once the front speakers are set to 'large', the AVR routes all frequencies (20 Hz to 20 Khz) from the front channels to those speakers. There is no question of crossover in that case. The crossover setting is only applicable to speakers that have been set to 'small'.

 

[venkatcr]

I also have a similar doubt. I completely understand this explanation of yours. But my doubt is with regard to YPAO. If it believes that there is no sub, would it not set the crossover lower (say 60-65hz), so that the "large" front speakers can handle as much of the bass as possible?

And therefore conversely, with the sub-connected, should it not automatically set it higher (say 80hz), so that even some of the notes which are within the rated ability of the fronts, but which would probably be handled better by the sub, (such as perhaps the sounds in the 60-80hz frequency, when you're talking about bookshelves), can be handled by the sub, and the fronts need not struggle with them?

By default, Yamaha sets the front speakers to large and the crossover setting to THX standard of 80Hz. This is whether there is a sub or not.

When the front speakers are set as large, you will usually find the sub option absent. In other words all frequencies are sent to the fronts. This is what I am used to, for example, in Onkyo. What surprised in this installation was that YPAO recognized the presence of the sub, and in spite of that, assumed the fronts to be large. So I was forced to manually set the fronts as small.

In the present case case, even if the PSB Alpha B1 can go down reasonably to 70-75hz, if the sub can handle the 60-80hz spectrum with greater comfort, would it not be better to leave the crossover at 80hz, rather than set it at 65hz. For example, you mentioned that the B1s are comfortable down to 70hz, so presumably 65-70hz (for the sake of example) is an area where they are not comfortable, and in such a case, would not setting the crossover at 65hz leave the 65-70hz frequencies inadequately resolved/reproduced?

Maybe my explanation was not enough or was badly worded (I shall edit it a bit later), but I have done exactly what you are suggesting. The Alpha B1s can actually go down to 65 Hz according to its specifications. So what I did was give it a leeway of 10 Hz, and set the sub to take over from 75Hz. I actually tried from 100 Hz downwards. I found the sub's sound to be a bit largish (booms and echoes) in the 75 to 90Hz range. I found the Alphas handled these frequencies much faster and they also died faster. I found the crossover at 75Hz to be the best for my ears. You are suggesting 80Hz, and I chose 75Hz.

I am very sensitive to sound that booms and echoes, and I want the drums to be sharp and of very short duration.

There is no hard and fast rule. For example, today I was experimenting with another set up where the combination was Q-Acoustics and a EPOS sub. Here the sub was set to take over at 100Hz and a Phase offset of 135 degrees. Both zero degrees and 180 degrees, brought in boominess that I don't like much.

I hope it is clear now. As I said the crossover is a combination of the specifications and capabilities of the front speakers as well as how the sub sounds. Many people like the large and boomy sound and for them, 100 to 120Hz may be an ideal setting. If you choose your fronts carefully, you can actually maximize the load to the fronts, and make the sub handle only the really low frequencies.

Cheers

 

[reju]

Vivekam and Reju, I got the Pioneer 610 from Dubai through a friend of mine. Actually if you know someone in the Middle East, this is a good time to use that contact. Audio and video equipments are going cheap over there because of the recession.

Cheers

OIC, so much did you pay for 610 black?

 

[anm]

if not on floor, even then they could be mounted at about 4 ft. I am asking this because some people recommend that tweeters should be at ear level.

regards

Well, the equipment without the TV cost 1.5 roughly lakhs. My effort would be equivalent to about 7 man days of effort including auditioning, buying, and installation.

Regarding the speakers, all the bookshelves are about 6 feet from the ground. This is not an ideal placement, but Shyam did not want any speakers on the ground, nor did he agree to any floorstanders. I did toe all the speakers in, and bent them downwards as much as I could, short of breaking the TV wall stands.

The sitting area is roughly 5 meters (15 odd feet) from the Front speakers, the sound comes across quite nicely.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

OIC, so much did you pay for 610 black?

I don't remember the exact prices, but it was the DHS equivalent of Rs.4500/- I don't think there is a different price for black or silver.

Cheers

 

[psychotropic]

All clear boss! I think something about how you phrased your initial post confused me

I hope it is clear now. As I said the crossover is a combination of the specifications and capabilities of the front speakers as well as how the sub sounds. Many people like the large and boomy sound and for them, 100 to 120Hz may be an ideal setting. If you choose your fronts carefully, you can actually maximize the load to the fronts, and make the sub handle only the really low frequencies.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

if not on floor, even then they could be mounted at about 4 ft. I am asking this because some people recommend that tweeters should be at ear level.

Ideally, yes, the top of the front speakers should be at the level of your ears when you are sitting down. But what can you do when interiors decorators and wives do not agree to that?

Shyam's biggest requirement was that everything should be unobtrusive and no cables should be visible.

Cheers

 

[reju]

I don't remember the exact prices, but it was the DHS equivalent of Rs.4500/- I don't think there is a different price for black or silver.

Cheers

wow! that's a good price!

 

[magma]

venkat
how far is the rear of the Alpha B1's from the rear wall
looks like approx 4-6inches with those brackets

i was wondering how these alphas (rear ported)perform with 1 inch breathing space
i ask this because the alpha come with keyhole slots at the back which basically means they can be mounted even ON the wall ( with 0 clearence)

this is one of the main reasons im having to buy the image series bookshelves rather than the alphas ( at quite a price diff!!)

 

[thevortex]

venkat
how far is the rear of the Alpha B1's from the rear wall
looks like approx 4-6inches with those brackets

i was wondering how these alphas (rear ported)perform with 1 inch breathing space
i ask this because the alpha come with keyhole slots at the back which basically means they can be mounted even ON the wall ( with 0 clearence)

this is one of the main reasons im having to buy the image series bookshelves rather than the alphas ( at quite a price diff!!)

Well, if you are looking at placing them so close to the wall, then why dont you use foam plugs or bungs to block the ports? Of course this is assuming that you will use a subwoofer ... or two

 

[venkatcr]

venkat how far is the rear of the Alpha B1's from the rear wall looks like approx 4-6inches with those brackets

That was my biggest challenge. I wanted the speakers to be at least six inches from the wall. In addition, I did not want very large wall stands. I was lucky. Once when I was loitering through Ritchie street, I came across these nice wall stands that will allow me to mount the speakers with a gap of 6 inches at the back.

Of course, you can also try what TheVortex has suggested.

Cheers

 

[reju]

venkatcr, any idea where I can buy "Avia-color-filters" in India?

 

[venkatcr]

venkatcr, any idea where I can buy "Avia-color-filters" in India?

The filters come with the Avai DVDs.

What you should do is to go to a high end stationery shop and look for thin colored sheets through which you can look. These should be a little stiff.

Avia 1 comes with one single Blue sheet and Avai 2 comes with 3 sheets - Red, Blue, and Green. Specify the standard RGB tone to the stationery shop. You may be able to get the exact tone number for a DTP software such as Pagemaker. A good printer will also have the tone colors.

Cheers

 

[psychotropic]

samsung plasmas have a "Blue only" mode, which i understand is a useful substitute for a colour filters.

 

[cmsajith]

hi venkat nice work. One question, how did you build the bass trap or is it a ready made one? Any other acoustic treatment done to the room?

 

[venkatcr]

hi venkat nice work. One question, how did you build the bass trap or is it a ready made one? Any other acoustic treatment done to the room?

The bass trap is a simple plywood box in the shape of a triangle, filled with glass wool, and stuck to the only corner of the room. A very quick and dirty solution, I must say, but seems to work quite well.

This was the only 'acoustic treatment' needed as the rest of the room has heavy drapes on two walls, and a soundproof glass wall on the third. The fourth wall, the one behind the TV is fully wooden.

I have advised Shyam to carpet the whole room, and he will be doing that in the near future.

Cheers

 

[prashant_dv]

Using DACs most expensive subwoofer cable I connected the sub to the AVR.

Hi Venkat,

the way you have done the job and described it is excellent, clear enough for anyone to plan a new setup like this..!

I would like to know the cost of the above subwoofer cable that you used from DAC.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

I would like to know the cost of the above subwoofer cable that you used from DAC.

Thanks. The sub woofer cable cost me, if I remember right, Rs.3000. It is a 4 meter cable. The cable has noise filters on both end and has a cotton shield (additional) on top for shielding against external disturbances.

Cheers

 

[kneo]

Wonderful writeup. Helps a long way in understanding what is involved in setting up a HT. I hope there are other articles on this forum covering such installations for various budgets.

If you have done something similar for a lower budget (less than 50K for movies excluding the LCD), I'd really appreciate it

 

[venkatcr]

Well, I recently installed a YHT 195 for a friend here in Chennai. All I did was get the wall clamps for the small satellites, mount the speakers, and put small cable holders on the walls to carry the cables to the AVR.

After this was done, I used a AVIA disc to tune the system, add a bit of low frequency, and enhance the SPL level to the centre channel. I played a couple of my favourite DVD including Sivaji, Iron Man, and tuned the system as well as I could. The issue was that the person was not ready to spend over 2000 for the whole installation, and that became a major issue.

I have asked this friend to use the system for a few weeks, and then I will be going back for a fresh look to see if I can tune the system a bit more.

But it does sound nice as such.

I will certainly be posting all my experiences in the AV field as and when they take place.

Cheers