An Introduction to Ambiophonics

[Kannan]

Re: Compliment - Best Upgrade.


Out of curiosity I emailed the HongKong distributor about the pricing and availability of BACCH-SP.
He has replied back stating said they still have not started commercial sales and the indicative pricing for the DSP is USD 45000

 

[Ambio]

Re: Compliment - Best Upgrade.

Out of curiosity I emailed the HongKong distributor about the pricing and availability of BACCH-SP.
He has replied back stating said they still have not started commercial sales and the indicative pricing for the DSP is USD 45000

Hi Kannan,

BACCH uses a different filter. RACE is using more user friendly filter. You can buy the device for US125 at Ambiophonic Systems | Ambio4YOU - Ambiophonic DSP. I have not tried BACCH.

 

[Ambio]

Kannan, just saw the extra zero. US45000???? No wonder I can see the advertisement in Stereophile and Kal Rubinson is their biggest fan. Probably, HK45000 which is about US5000.
As I have mentioned earlier, when something is free no one would want to look at.

 

[Kannan]

Kannan, just saw the extra zero. US45000???? No wonder I can see the advertisement in Stereophile and Kal Rubinson is their biggest fan. Probably, HK45000 which is about US5000.
As I have mentioned earlier, when something is free no one would want to look at.

No mate it is USD and not HKD...and sorry it is 54000 USD and not 45000 USD.

I am giving below the transcript of the email
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thursday, 31 July 2014 12:44 PM, MASIS Audio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Kannan,
>
> Thank you for your reply. As you seem to be very knowledgable about
> ambiophonics and Prof. Choueiri's work, you should know that Prof.
> Choueiri contributed many years of his time towards what became
> ambiophonics. Prof. Choueiri quitted on ambiophonics for very good
> reasons. Having played with Ambiophonics myself, I can tell you that
> BACCH far exceeds that of Ambiophonics.
>
> Unfortunately, at this point, the BACCH-SP is not priced at a mass
> market level. The SP sells for US$54,000.
>
> Yes, JamBox uses a generic BACCH filter.
>
> Regards, ws
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[rikhav]

Kannan, just saw the extra zero. US45000???? No wonder I can see the advertisement in Stereophile and Kal Rubinson is their biggest fan. Probably, HK45000 which is about US5000.
As I have mentioned earlier, when something is free no one would want to look at.

Hi Ambio
I am just a passive reader for this thread
Initially it was little confusing for me and I thought source has to be a PC where I have to configure the RACE plugin (which looked liked a cockpit of a fighter jet )

So this Miniambio device is connected between my cdp and pre and once configured , the CDP can be used as source without any need of a PC?

I am sorry if I am asking questions asked before but its a little too confusing for me

Thanks

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

As I have mentioned earlier, when something is free no one would want to look at.

Here in the Linux world we do

 

[Kannan]

Hi Ambio
I am just a passive reader for this thread
Initially it was little confusing for me and I thought source has to be a PC where I have to configure the RACE plugin (which looked liked a cockpit of a fighter jet )

So this Miniambio device is connected between my cdp and pre and once configured , the CDP can be used as source without any need of a PC?

I am sorry if I am asking questions asked before but its a little too confusing for me

Thanks

The miniambio is a hardware interface which too needs initial configuration with a PC to tweak the built-in DSP to your taste. Yes, it should come immediately after the source be it PC or a player.
The software version is quite simple to use and is the best starting point
to try and see if one likes this music reproduction.

 

[Ambio]

Hi Ambio
I am just a passive reader for this thread
Initially it was little confusing for me and I thought source has to be a PC where I have to configure the RACE plugin (which looked liked a cockpit of a fighter jet )

So this Miniambio device is connected between my cdp and pre and once configured , the CDP can be used as source without any need of a PC?

I am sorry if I am asking questions asked before but its a little too confusing for me

Thanks

You don't need a PC to use Miniambio. You can just use them straight out of the box and adjust your seating and speakers position to match the default value of Miniambio. You can connect Miniambio nywhere in between your source and the amplifier. However, you can use RACE to fine tune so that you need not change the speakers and sitting position to find the sweetspot, as long your speakers are placed around 20 degrees spread. I can contacted via BBM or Whatsapp when you are doing the initial setup and would be glad to help you out.

If you are using a preamplifer then please connect them after the preamplifiers and before the amplifier. They use the same RCA input and output. When you order the Miniambio indicate 0.9V version if you are planning to connect after the preamp. 2V version is suitable to be connected after the source. You can also select the setting yourself by using the jumper. A simple procedure like plugging in your fuse.


Good luck!

 

[Ambio]

No mate it is USD and not HKD...and sorry it is 54000 USD and not 45000 USD.

I am giving below the transcript of the email
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thursday, 31 July 2014 12:44 PM, MASIS Audio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Kannan,
>
> Thank you for your reply. As you seem to be very knowledgable about
> ambiophonics and Prof. Choueiri's work, you should know that Prof.
> Choueiri contributed many years of his time towards what became
> ambiophonics. Prof. Choueiri quitted on ambiophonics for very good
> reasons. Having played with Ambiophonics myself, I can tell you that
> BACCH far exceeds that of Ambiophonics.
>
> Unfortunately, at this point, the BACCH-SP is not priced at a mass
> market level. The SP sells for US$54,000.
>
> Yes, JamBox uses a generic BACCH filter.
>
> Regards, ws
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks. What I heard is BACCH-SP is not user configurable. It will be setup for you by the seller. US54000 just to hear the bees buzzing around your head?! It goes against everything that Ralph stood for. Ambiophonics is meant for the mass and should be available for free. Ralph has been using Jambox long time to demonstrate Ambiophonics. Long before they included commercial Liveaudio in jambox.

Can't help noticing that the available hardware version of both RACE and BACCH are coming from Hong Kong. It is a dog eat dog world.

 

[Ambio]

Soundstage and Depth- An experiment

Hello to everyone,

I have written about soundstage and depth experiment here . I thought of rewriting everything here with better chart but it is so difficult to do with a iPad.

Please try the experiment. It won't cost you anything except your time and maybe two Cd roms. You will get to know the true meaning of night and day difference in the proper context.

Regards.

 

[mowgli80]

I tried ambiophonics transcoder from hotto.de on linux. It did work but with default tunables, it sounded extremely echoey and not good. I had to move RACE attenuation slider all the way up to 9 db to get somewhat listenable sound. Even with that, the soundstage would grow and shrink in parts. The distance between the speakers was 2 ft while I was listening from around 8 ft away. The software I used to play was xbmc + mplayer. I am not sure if my system was setup properly. Is there a simple document which I can follow to setup correctly.

 

[Kannan]

Please read the next post as while posting there were some errors which I could not edit.

 

[Kannan]

I tried ambiophonics transcoder from hotto.de on linux. It did work but with default tunables, it sounded extremely echoey and not good. I had to move RACE attenuation slider all the way up to 9 db to get somewhat listenable sound. Even with that, the soundstage would grow and shrink in parts. The distance between the speakers was 2 ft while I was listening from around 8 ft away. The software I used to play was xbmc + mplayer. I am not sure if my system was setup properly. Is there a simple document which I can follow to setup correctly.

Essentially maintain an angle between 10-20 degrees between the cone of the speakers. For starters try 30 cms / 150 cms and 50 cms / 240 cms.
Also keep switching between ambiophonic and stereo with bypass button to hear the differences. Also restrict the LPF between 4000 hz and 5000 hz which you can do in the foobar plugin. Beyond 5 khz tweeters will start to beam when you cancel crosstalk.

Try the following two applications on your PC.
Download and install winamp.
Then download the Winamp VST host (download the latest 1.6 version) and install it.

Christian's BlogWinAmp ? Christian's Blog

Next download the pre configured trial version of ambiophonicDSP (mosc-ambio.dll) for winamp from here. The download button is at the bottom of the page.

electro-music.com :: View topic - Mosc's Ambio VST

Open winamp and under 'Options' 'Preferences', select DSP/VST Host DSP and load the mosc-ambio.DLL. The only thing you can adjust are the width (spaciousness of the music), balance and bypass.

If you like it the you can buy the 10USD version which has more controls and pre sets.

Electro-Music.com

If you want to try another plugin with tweaks, then download foobar2000
Then unzip the file that you download from the link below and copy it into the components folder of the foobar install folder under program file.
Open foobar, press Ctrl P to access options and then load the ambiophonic XTC and you can get going with your tweaks.

electro-music.com :: View topic - Ambiophonic plugin for foobar

You will also receive and instructions file on how to configure the DSP.

Good luck.

 

[Ambio]

Ambiophonics calculator

I tried ambiophonics transcoder from hotto.de on linux. It did work but with default tunables, it sounded extremely echoey and not good. I had to move RACE attenuation slider all the way up to 9 db to get somewhat listenable sound. Even with that, the soundstage would grow and shrink in parts. The distance between the speakers was 2 ft while I was listening from around 8 ft away. The software I used to play was xbmc + mplayer. I am not sure if my system was setup properly. Is there a simple document which I can follow to setup correctly.

The RACE attenuation should be within 1.5 to 3.5dB. In most cases, 2.7dB and delay of 93mS should work. Ideally, try to maintain 20 degrees spread for now until you are familiar with the settings.

You can use the calculator in the link to enter your distance and get the values. Calculator

Kannan is very experienced with the PC version. Maybe he should come up with a video. The problem with PC version is the soundcard contains their own sound enhancer/ DSP causing ambio plugin not to work as intended. I only tried the PC version for a few days many years ago until I could see what Ambio was capable of and moved to Miniambio. That is more of plug and play version and stable.

Maybe someone in this forum could write a better software for miniambio implementation.

 

[Kannan]

Re: Ambiophonics calculator

The RACE attenuation should be within 1.5 to 3.5dB. In most cases, 2.7dB and delay of 93mS should work. Ideally, try to maintain 20 degrees spread for now until you are familiar with the settings.

You can use the calculator in the link to enter your distance and get the values. Calculator

Kannan is very experienced with the PC version. Maybe he should come up with a video. The problem with PC version is the soundcard contains their own sound enhancer/ DSP causing ambio plugin not to work as intended. I only tried the PC version for a few days many years ago until I could see what Ambio was capable of and moved to Miniambio. That is more of plug and play version and stable.

Maybe someone in this forum could write a better software for miniambio implementation.

One can always bypass all internal DSP of the music player app, however if you are connecting to a receiver instead of a power amplifier, you should disable all the receiver DSP settings including tone controls.

 

[Kannan]

I tried ambiophonics transcoder from hotto.de on linux. It did work but with default tunables, it sounded extremely echoey and not good. I had to move RACE attenuation slider all the way up to 9 db to get somewhat listenable sound. Even with that, the soundstage would grow and shrink in parts. The distance between the speakers was 2 ft while I was listening from around 8 ft away. The software I used to play was xbmc + mplayer. I am not sure if my system was setup properly. Is there a simple document which I can follow to setup correctly.

Try Chinna Chinna Aasai from Roja with the follwong setting in foobar after installing the ambio dsp.
Insert width and depth according to the speaker width and your ditance from it, delay will be auto filled by the DSP algorithm, I suggest you do not chage it.
Adjust the ratio and center values to your taste.
My settings are as follows
width: 30 cm
depth: 180 cm
level: 75%
upper: 5000 (LPF frequency)
lower: 0 (HPF frequency)
delay: 70 (auto filled according to depth and width)
ratio: between 35 and 65 to suit taste
centre: between 0 and 30 to suit taste

A higher 'ratio' will push back the vocals with a tinge of harmonics.
Lowest 'centre' values will be more expansive, however if you want more focus and a fatter vocals increase the center to upto 30%.

Do leave your feedback.

 

[Ambio]

Not sure if the earlier calculator works. Try here.

Regarding Kannan's suggestion the lower HPF should be 200 since lower frequencies are omnidirectional. I would still suggest a 20 degree setting because not all recordings are made perfectly. This a sort of a compromise. But your mileage may vary.

There is no one correct answer as every individual is different and hears differently.

 

[mowgli80]

@kannan - sorry I do not have windows installed, so winamp is out of question. Will try with the transcoder on linux to see if I can get it working.

Thanks for all the suggestions, will do extensive testing over this long weekend.

 

[sound_cycle]

Interesting discussion

Tried out this morning (with foobar) and did not like the result

Now I know why Understanding Ambiophonics

On the other hand, the usual stereo equilateral triangle speaker spread of 60 degrees will seriously degrade the sound

Now to buy a cheap protractor !

Motivation ? "Ambiophonics is much less damaged by room reflections than conventional stereo" also try karne mein kya harz hai

ciao
gr

 

[Soundstage]

Interesting discussion

Now to buy a cheap protractor !

NO!!!

An audiophile one....: