rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Anatomy of Norge 1000 GOLD Stereo Integrated Amplifier
- Thread starter rishiguru
- Start date
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
You are most welcome, spirovious.
I just tried to write a review with the little knowledge I posses. I am glad that you and other respectable members of hifivision liked my take of Norge 1000.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
You are most welcome, spirovious.
I just tried to write a review with the little knowledge I posses. I am glad that you and other respectable members of hifivision liked my take of Norge 1000.
Thanks,I have zero knowledge abt modding amp.
Atleast we are inspired by a review like this.It will be really good to see whether modding can make amp better than existing type.
Teja
New Member
Posted the pics of Norge 2060 internals.
Looking forward to your comparison with the Norge 1000. Let me know if you want more detailed shots and I will try to get them.
Thanks,
Teja
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Great work Teja. :clapping:
You kept your promise.
Now, I have got the complete picture of Norge 2060 & Norge 1000. The 2060 seems to be a photocopy of 1000 with a smaller toroidal transformer.
For 1000, the transformer secondary were beefed up from +-25VAC (in 2060) to +-30VAC.
The 2060 seems to me as the more stable amp. Better to handle 4 ohm loads than 1000, but again the heatsink problem. I may be wrong though.
Excellent photography.
hyeah:I will try to write a short review on 2060 if i can spare time. I will be using your pics as a reference. Hope you don't mind.
Regards,
rishiguru
spirovious
Well-Known Member
So Teja joins in,good work,thanks.
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Anatomy of Norge 2060
Teja took some great shots of Norge 2060 internals on our request.
http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/20340-norge-2060-internals.html
It is for his photos only that I can write this review. So, all the credit goes to Teja and not to me.
---------------------------------
Norge 2060(by Teja)
Norge 1000 & Norge 2060(by Teja)
------------------
2060 Inside view(by Teja)
2060 Pre-amplifier Module(by Teja)
Pre-amplifier Module: Both Norge 1000 & 2060 uses identical pre-amplifier modules i.e. PCB layout. Both houses three TL072 operational amplifiers but while 1000 uses Texas Instruments op-amp the 2060 uses ST Microelectronics ones. Quality wise both are same.
ST Microelectronics TL072CN(by Teja)
Like 1000, each of these three op-amps are used for bass, treble & balance management individually.
-------------------------
2060 Power-amplifier Module(by Teja)
Power-amplifier Module: Both 1000 & 2060 uses the same PCB layout + components. Like the 1000, identical CKT A1943/C5200 power transistors per channel are used. They can produce 150 watts of peak dissipation regardless of load.
2060 using A1943/C5200 power transistors(by Teja)
The calibration of the power-amp module will be different from Norge 1000, since they have different voltages feeding them.
-------------------------
The Power Supply: Here lies the big difference. Looking at the size of the toroidal transformer it seems to be at 207VA one, while the 1000's is 311VA. So, 2060 has less juice than 1000, thus less power.
2060 Toroidal Transformer(by Teja)
Toroidal Transformer Details [My guess]
VA Rating: 206.50 VA
Primary Input: AC 230V/50Hz
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 4A (Goes to the power amplifier)
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A (Goes to the pre amplifier)
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 4A = 196.00 VAC [goes to Power amps]
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC [goes to Pre amps]
---------------------------
Total = 206.50 VAC = 206.50 watts ~ 207 watts
Rectifier + Ripple filters + Voltage Regulators (AC to DC PCB) (by Teja)
This module is also identical to 1000, the upper part handling the power amp module having same pair of Samwha 4700uf, 50V capacitors per channel as found on 1000.
The Ripple Filter Capacitors(by Teja)
The diodes(tiny black ones) are beefier in 1000 since it has to handle +/- 35 VAC. Here the transformer's +/- 24.5 VAC secondary for the power amp module after passing through the rectifier & power capacitors will be +/- 35 VDC, the current being 4A. With a pair of A1943/C5200 power transistors, 60 watts @ 8 ohms per channel is easily obtainable at +/- 35 VDC while using a suitable transformer.
The lower portion of the PCB for preamp module is also same, using four 1000uf caps, except that these capacitors of Norge 1000 are of a slightly better quality. The transformer's +/- 15 VAC secondary for the pre amp module after passing through the rectifier & power capacitors will be +/- 20 VDC. Now, the voltage regulator cuts down the voltage by further 10 volts, so that the DC voltage supply to the pre amp module be a 'clean' +/- 15 VDC, the current being 0.35A
Norge 2060 amps continuous power output capability
Since, 196VAC is channeled to the power amplifier module, the Norge 2060 will produce a maximum of 100 watts of continuous power at around 50~60% efficiency regardless of load.
This means Norge 2060 is always capable to provide 100 watts i.e. 50 watts of continuous power per channel to the speakers regardless of the impedance(1 ohm, 2 ohm, 4 ohm, 6 ohms, 8 ohms, ....) of the speaker. But, for safety reasons one should not use speakers below 4 ohms impedance with this amp.
Continuous Power Output of Norge 2060 :
4,6,8 ohms load : 50W X 2 = 100W
Dynamic Power Output of Norge 2060:
i) 4 ohms load : 80W X 2 = 160W
ii) 6 ohms load : 65W X 2 = 130W
iii) 8 ohms load : 50W X 2 = 100W
Wonder what difference a transformer can make.
-------------------------------------
Where Goes The Heat?
Heat Sink(by Teja)
Considering the case that Norge 2060 in Class-AB mode will deliver 100W with 50~60% efficiency, it will be dumping something around 96 watts of heat to this heat sink. A heat-sink of this size can handle a max of 60 watts of heat dissipation.
---------------------------------
Norge 1000 vs Norge 2060
1) Sound Quality : From a theoretical point of view both should be identical.
2) Continious Power Output : The Norge 1000 posses the upper hand here with 160 watts while 2060 is capable of 100 watts. The 1000 will also posses more "depth" & "warmness" in sound due to its better power output capability. The listener will always feel that the 1000 have lot in reserve and is hardly strained.
3) Dynamic Power Output : Of-course the 1000's toroidal transformer have more internal capacitance since it's bigger, which means the dynamic power rating will be much higher than 2060 at a certain load. EI transformers have even lower internal capacitance than toroidal ones. This is the reason why they are considered inferior to toroid.
CP: Continious power, DP: Dynamic Power
Say at 4 ohms loads,
Norge 1000:
CP-->160W, DP-->250W, Difference--> 250-160=90W
Norge 2060:
CP-->100W, DP-->160W, Difference--> 160-100=60W
So, the bigger the transformer the more you can push the upper ceiling(dynamic power) of the amp. NAD is famous for this.
4) Stability & Reliability : The 2060 is definitely more stable & reliable of the two.
While 1000 uses +/- 42VDC for power amp module which really pushes the power transistors & its associated circuitry to the absolute limit of their performance, Norge 2060 uses only +/- 35VDC, and thus performs in a relaxed & lazy manner. The power transistors of 2060 always operates with ease having a lot of headroom, and always remaining under the safe operating area(SOA).
Since absolute max current & voltages are supplied to the Norge 1000 power amp module to generate maximum power output that this module was designed for, I will preferably avoid 4 ohm speakers and use 6 or 8 ohm or above rated speakers with 1000. Norge 2060 will have no such problem and 4 ohm speakers can be easily used with it. These are my personal views.
Looking at the heatsink, I find Norge 1000 is dumping (300-160) = 140 watts of heat in the heat-sink, while it is capable to radiate only half of it(70 watts). To me this is critical thermal issue.
Heat assimilation of Norge 1000 heatsink = 140 - 70 = 70 watts
But for Norge 2060, (196-100) = 96 watts of heat will be dumped in the heatsink, while it is capable to radiate more than half of it(60 watts).
Heat assimilation of Norge 2060 heatsink = 96 - 60 = 36 watts
So while 1000 gets crazy as of what to do with this additional 70 watts of heat that it cannot dissipate through the heatsink at max volume thereby incrementally rising the temperature of the power transistors until they go bust, the 2060 somehow manages this 36 watts of additional heat at full volume, though this 36 watts will have a detrimental effect on the power transistors sooner or later and they will go bust too.
But then again who listens at full volume for an extended period of time? I assume no one. So, for normal listening(less than 60% volume) both amps are excellent & durable.
Considering the relaxed manner in which 2060 operates & with much better heat dissipation capability than 1000, there is no doubt that 2060 will be the preferred one for long listening duration's at high volume.
After the fan modding, Norge 1000 also becomes a very capable amp for the long listening hours at high volume.
------------------------------
Verdit :
The 2060 have more than enough power & performance to satisfy every Indian audio fanatic. But we are never satisfied, are we? For them I suggest the Norge 1000. So,
Sane & looking for normal listening pleasure : Norge 2060
Insane & looking for raw performance : Norge 1000
Not satisfied even?
Then look for Krell, NAD, Marantz, Yamaha, ....................................... the never ending list
Teja took some great shots of Norge 2060 internals on our request.
http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/20340-norge-2060-internals.html
It is for his photos only that I can write this review. So, all the credit goes to Teja and not to me.
---------------------------------
Norge 2060(by Teja)
Norge 1000 & Norge 2060(by Teja)
------------------
2060 Inside view(by Teja)
2060 Pre-amplifier Module(by Teja)
Pre-amplifier Module: Both Norge 1000 & 2060 uses identical pre-amplifier modules i.e. PCB layout. Both houses three TL072 operational amplifiers but while 1000 uses Texas Instruments op-amp the 2060 uses ST Microelectronics ones. Quality wise both are same.
ST Microelectronics TL072CN(by Teja)
Like 1000, each of these three op-amps are used for bass, treble & balance management individually.
-------------------------
2060 Power-amplifier Module(by Teja)
Power-amplifier Module: Both 1000 & 2060 uses the same PCB layout + components. Like the 1000, identical CKT A1943/C5200 power transistors per channel are used. They can produce 150 watts of peak dissipation regardless of load.
2060 using A1943/C5200 power transistors(by Teja)
The calibration of the power-amp module will be different from Norge 1000, since they have different voltages feeding them.
-------------------------
The Power Supply: Here lies the big difference. Looking at the size of the toroidal transformer it seems to be at 207VA one, while the 1000's is 311VA. So, 2060 has less juice than 1000, thus less power.
2060 Toroidal Transformer(by Teja)
Toroidal Transformer Details [My guess]
VA Rating: 206.50 VA
Primary Input: AC 230V/50Hz
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 4A (Goes to the power amplifier)
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A (Goes to the pre amplifier)
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 4A = 196.00 VAC [goes to Power amps]
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC [goes to Pre amps]
---------------------------
Total = 206.50 VAC = 206.50 watts ~ 207 watts
Rectifier + Ripple filters + Voltage Regulators (AC to DC PCB) (by Teja)
This module is also identical to 1000, the upper part handling the power amp module having same pair of Samwha 4700uf, 50V capacitors per channel as found on 1000.
The Ripple Filter Capacitors(by Teja)
The diodes(tiny black ones) are beefier in 1000 since it has to handle +/- 35 VAC. Here the transformer's +/- 24.5 VAC secondary for the power amp module after passing through the rectifier & power capacitors will be +/- 35 VDC, the current being 4A. With a pair of A1943/C5200 power transistors, 60 watts @ 8 ohms per channel is easily obtainable at +/- 35 VDC while using a suitable transformer.
The lower portion of the PCB for preamp module is also same, using four 1000uf caps, except that these capacitors of Norge 1000 are of a slightly better quality. The transformer's +/- 15 VAC secondary for the pre amp module after passing through the rectifier & power capacitors will be +/- 20 VDC. Now, the voltage regulator cuts down the voltage by further 10 volts, so that the DC voltage supply to the pre amp module be a 'clean' +/- 15 VDC, the current being 0.35A
Norge 2060 amps continuous power output capability
Since, 196VAC is channeled to the power amplifier module, the Norge 2060 will produce a maximum of 100 watts of continuous power at around 50~60% efficiency regardless of load.
This means Norge 2060 is always capable to provide 100 watts i.e. 50 watts of continuous power per channel to the speakers regardless of the impedance(1 ohm, 2 ohm, 4 ohm, 6 ohms, 8 ohms, ....) of the speaker. But, for safety reasons one should not use speakers below 4 ohms impedance with this amp.
Continuous Power Output of Norge 2060 :
4,6,8 ohms load : 50W X 2 = 100W
Dynamic Power Output of Norge 2060:
i) 4 ohms load : 80W X 2 = 160W
ii) 6 ohms load : 65W X 2 = 130W
iii) 8 ohms load : 50W X 2 = 100W
Wonder what difference a transformer can make.
-------------------------------------
Where Goes The Heat?
Heat Sink(by Teja)
Considering the case that Norge 2060 in Class-AB mode will deliver 100W with 50~60% efficiency, it will be dumping something around 96 watts of heat to this heat sink. A heat-sink of this size can handle a max of 60 watts of heat dissipation.
---------------------------------
Norge 1000 vs Norge 2060
1) Sound Quality : From a theoretical point of view both should be identical.
2) Continious Power Output : The Norge 1000 posses the upper hand here with 160 watts while 2060 is capable of 100 watts. The 1000 will also posses more "depth" & "warmness" in sound due to its better power output capability. The listener will always feel that the 1000 have lot in reserve and is hardly strained.
3) Dynamic Power Output : Of-course the 1000's toroidal transformer have more internal capacitance since it's bigger, which means the dynamic power rating will be much higher than 2060 at a certain load. EI transformers have even lower internal capacitance than toroidal ones. This is the reason why they are considered inferior to toroid.
CP: Continious power, DP: Dynamic Power
Say at 4 ohms loads,
Norge 1000:
CP-->160W, DP-->250W, Difference--> 250-160=90W
Norge 2060:
CP-->100W, DP-->160W, Difference--> 160-100=60W
So, the bigger the transformer the more you can push the upper ceiling(dynamic power) of the amp. NAD is famous for this.
4) Stability & Reliability : The 2060 is definitely more stable & reliable of the two.
While 1000 uses +/- 42VDC for power amp module which really pushes the power transistors & its associated circuitry to the absolute limit of their performance, Norge 2060 uses only +/- 35VDC, and thus performs in a relaxed & lazy manner. The power transistors of 2060 always operates with ease having a lot of headroom, and always remaining under the safe operating area(SOA).
Since absolute max current & voltages are supplied to the Norge 1000 power amp module to generate maximum power output that this module was designed for, I will preferably avoid 4 ohm speakers and use 6 or 8 ohm or above rated speakers with 1000. Norge 2060 will have no such problem and 4 ohm speakers can be easily used with it. These are my personal views.
Looking at the heatsink, I find Norge 1000 is dumping (300-160) = 140 watts of heat in the heat-sink, while it is capable to radiate only half of it(70 watts). To me this is critical thermal issue.
Heat assimilation of Norge 1000 heatsink = 140 - 70 = 70 watts
But for Norge 2060, (196-100) = 96 watts of heat will be dumped in the heatsink, while it is capable to radiate more than half of it(60 watts).
Heat assimilation of Norge 2060 heatsink = 96 - 60 = 36 watts
So while 1000 gets crazy as of what to do with this additional 70 watts of heat that it cannot dissipate through the heatsink at max volume thereby incrementally rising the temperature of the power transistors until they go bust, the 2060 somehow manages this 36 watts of additional heat at full volume, though this 36 watts will have a detrimental effect on the power transistors sooner or later and they will go bust too.
But then again who listens at full volume for an extended period of time? I assume no one. So, for normal listening(less than 60% volume) both amps are excellent & durable.
Considering the relaxed manner in which 2060 operates & with much better heat dissipation capability than 1000, there is no doubt that 2060 will be the preferred one for long listening duration's at high volume.
After the fan modding, Norge 1000 also becomes a very capable amp for the long listening hours at high volume.
------------------------------
Verdit :
The 2060 have more than enough power & performance to satisfy every Indian audio fanatic. But we are never satisfied, are we? For them I suggest the Norge 1000. So,
Sane & looking for normal listening pleasure : Norge 2060
Insane & looking for raw performance : Norge 1000
Not satisfied even?
Then look for Krell, NAD, Marantz, Yamaha, ....................................... the never ending list
Last edited:
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Hi Rishi,
Thanks for the comparo between the 2060 & the 1000 & thanks Teja for the Pics/though I could/should have also put up pics of the internals earlier
I have the 2060 amp paired to Norge TWR 125 Towers & have the following observations:-
1) I play lots of hard rock/metal & with respect to my listening area & distance between seating position / Speakers distance being about 6 odd feet, I rarely have to crank the volume beyond the 12 O'clock Position. The sound output is more than sufficient & quite powerful actually
2) Over sustained periods of playing music, the Amp Heatsinks do get hot but have never felt it affecting the performance of the amp. After switching off the amp, the heat sinks cool off after 5 odd minutes.
3) I listened to the 2060 & 1000 at Norge Workshop quite a bit & to be honest did not find any perceptible difference in the sound quality between the 2 amps. Both were paired to the Norge Tower Speakers & the Millenium Book Shelves during these 'Tests'. I discussed this with Mr. Bajaj also & he also suggested to stick to the 2060 & pair them with the Norge Tower Speakers. He too indirectly hinted that he prefers the 2060 amp more than the other amps of his.
4) After purchasing the 2060 & TWR 125 Towers, I experimented with pairing the 2060 with Jamo C405 Tower Speakers of another HFV Member, Telome BT300 Tower Speakers of a friend of mine, Klipsch Synergy F20 & Reference RF62 Towers & also with a pair of Custom Speakers of mine having a 3 way set-up. In each of the pairings, I found the 2060 perform flawlessly & never out of control. Surprise pairing of all of these was with the Klipsch Speakers, which was truly a revelation not only for me but also for the Sales Rep of Klipsch Store. Man it was such a proud moment for me having that patriotic feeling of my Humble Norge Amp pairing so well that I also intimated Mr. Bajaj about it
5) Lastly after everything said & done, I am very happy with my Norge set-up, thank & appreciate Mr. Bajaj's efforts for providing a VFM solution for lovers of music with limited resources who can appreciate some happiness through his humble creations. Yes, there are quite a few things that have been rightly pointed out in this thread related to improving the Norge Amps further, some of which should according to me be brought to notice of Mr. Bajaj - which even if increase the prices of his amps, will actually be appreciated & applauded for by the ever growing fans of Norge Audio. So Rishi, please do the needful & lets hope Mr. Bajaj takes these suggestions in the right spirit & takes the info positively.
Over to you buddy :clapping:
Thanks for the comparo between the 2060 & the 1000 & thanks Teja for the Pics/though I could/should have also put up pics of the internals earlier
I have the 2060 amp paired to Norge TWR 125 Towers & have the following observations:-
1) I play lots of hard rock/metal & with respect to my listening area & distance between seating position / Speakers distance being about 6 odd feet, I rarely have to crank the volume beyond the 12 O'clock Position. The sound output is more than sufficient & quite powerful actually
2) Over sustained periods of playing music, the Amp Heatsinks do get hot but have never felt it affecting the performance of the amp. After switching off the amp, the heat sinks cool off after 5 odd minutes.
3) I listened to the 2060 & 1000 at Norge Workshop quite a bit & to be honest did not find any perceptible difference in the sound quality between the 2 amps. Both were paired to the Norge Tower Speakers & the Millenium Book Shelves during these 'Tests'. I discussed this with Mr. Bajaj also & he also suggested to stick to the 2060 & pair them with the Norge Tower Speakers. He too indirectly hinted that he prefers the 2060 amp more than the other amps of his.
4) After purchasing the 2060 & TWR 125 Towers, I experimented with pairing the 2060 with Jamo C405 Tower Speakers of another HFV Member, Telome BT300 Tower Speakers of a friend of mine, Klipsch Synergy F20 & Reference RF62 Towers & also with a pair of Custom Speakers of mine having a 3 way set-up. In each of the pairings, I found the 2060 perform flawlessly & never out of control. Surprise pairing of all of these was with the Klipsch Speakers, which was truly a revelation not only for me but also for the Sales Rep of Klipsch Store. Man it was such a proud moment for me having that patriotic feeling of my Humble Norge Amp pairing so well that I also intimated Mr. Bajaj about it
5) Lastly after everything said & done, I am very happy with my Norge set-up, thank & appreciate Mr. Bajaj's efforts for providing a VFM solution for lovers of music with limited resources who can appreciate some happiness through his humble creations. Yes, there are quite a few things that have been rightly pointed out in this thread related to improving the Norge Amps further, some of which should according to me be brought to notice of Mr. Bajaj - which even if increase the prices of his amps, will actually be appreciated & applauded for by the ever growing fans of Norge Audio. So Rishi, please do the needful & lets hope Mr. Bajaj takes these suggestions in the right spirit & takes the info positively.
Over to you buddy :clapping:
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
denom, thanks for your subjective review on Norge 1000 & 2060.
While i took care of the technical aspects, you covered the subjective part, thus making this review complete.
In my view both are equally important.:indifferent14:
While i took care of the technical aspects, you covered the subjective part, thus making this review complete.
In my view both are equally important.:indifferent14:
spirovious
Well-Known Member
I had posted some thoughts abt Norge amps played with my Tannoy-
http://www.hifivision.com/what-shou...v2-norge-concerto-gold-1000-amplifiers-4.html
I found 1000 has good overall sound & can play most of BS speakers.2060 was strained with Tannoy F1.Norge 2000 was laid back.
http://www.hifivision.com/what-shou...v2-norge-concerto-gold-1000-amplifiers-4.html
I found 1000 has good overall sound & can play most of BS speakers.2060 was strained with Tannoy F1.Norge 2000 was laid back.
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
I was just going through the Norge Audio website when something came under my notice.
Norge Website : Norge Audio
Looking below at the Norge 1000 webpage I find it is clearly stated that:
Output : 125W + 125W RMS
Now look at the Norge 4242 webpage:
Output : 45W + 45W RMS @ 4 ohms
Finally comming to the Norge 2060 webpage I find :
Output : 80W @ 4 ohms
My Take
Norge 1000 : Clearly states that the max power is 125W + 125W = 250W.
Norge 4242 : Clearly states the max power is Output : 45W + 45W = 90W
Norge 2060 : The max power Output : 80W RMS ???????
Does this mean 2060 have 40W + 40W?
Both 4242 & 2060 have identical cabinets & near equal gross weight. In my review I guessed that the 2060 transformer may be a ~200VA. But now, the more I see it I find it looks more or less the similar size(diameter & height) to my Z-2300 toroid which is rated at 150VA having a diameter of 9.5 cm & height of 4.5 cm.
Also look at the difference in weight between 1000 & 2060. Nearly 2 kilos. Half of it is due to bigger transformer(~1 kg) while the rest due to a taller cabinet having more height(~1 kg).
Now look the the weight difference between 4242 (45 X 2 watts) & 2060 (assumed 80 X 2 watts). Only 500 gms.
Back calculating, 4242 being a 90W amp will be using 120VA transformer. Miracle transformer quotes their 120VA weighs 1.3 kg while their 160VA is 2kg. So a 150VA will weigh around 1.8 kg.
Difference = 1.8 - 1.3 = 0.5 kg = 500 gms.
If 2060 is using the ~150VA toroidal transformer, then continuous power of 2060 will not be 100W but ~80W only.
All these confusions are arising due to the ill quoted power output figures in Norge website.
This are only my assumptions. I may be wrong. Actually, I hope I better be wrong this time.
Can anybody verify the VA rating of the transformer from Mr. Bajaj? Man I asked him so many questions in mail, maybe thirty of them, I fear to ask any more.:lol:
Common terms used:
V : Volts, VAC : Volts AC, VDC : Volts DC, A: Ampere, Watts : V X A
Norge 2060
My previous assumption regarding the Toroidal Transformer
VA Rating: 206.50 VA
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 4A
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 4A = 196.00 VAC
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC
---------------------------
Total = 206.50 VAC = 206.50 watts ~ 207 watts
-------------------
Now just reducing one ampere from the (24.5VAC x 2, 4A) rail :
VA Rating: 157.50 VA
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 3A
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 3A = 147.00 VAC
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC
---------------------------
Total = 157.50 VAC = 157.50 watts ~ 158 watts
If this is the case & I hope it is not, then the 2060 will have ~80W (40W X 2) of continuous power only.
Norge Website : Norge Audio
Looking below at the Norge 1000 webpage I find it is clearly stated that:
Output : 125W + 125W RMS
Now look at the Norge 4242 webpage:
Output : 45W + 45W RMS @ 4 ohms
Finally comming to the Norge 2060 webpage I find :
Output : 80W @ 4 ohms
My Take
Norge 1000 : Clearly states that the max power is 125W + 125W = 250W.
Norge 4242 : Clearly states the max power is Output : 45W + 45W = 90W
Norge 2060 : The max power Output : 80W RMS ???????
Does this mean 2060 have 40W + 40W?
Both 4242 & 2060 have identical cabinets & near equal gross weight. In my review I guessed that the 2060 transformer may be a ~200VA. But now, the more I see it I find it looks more or less the similar size(diameter & height) to my Z-2300 toroid which is rated at 150VA having a diameter of 9.5 cm & height of 4.5 cm.
Also look at the difference in weight between 1000 & 2060. Nearly 2 kilos. Half of it is due to bigger transformer(~1 kg) while the rest due to a taller cabinet having more height(~1 kg).
Now look the the weight difference between 4242 (45 X 2 watts) & 2060 (assumed 80 X 2 watts). Only 500 gms.
Back calculating, 4242 being a 90W amp will be using 120VA transformer. Miracle transformer quotes their 120VA weighs 1.3 kg while their 160VA is 2kg. So a 150VA will weigh around 1.8 kg.
Difference = 1.8 - 1.3 = 0.5 kg = 500 gms.
If 2060 is using the ~150VA toroidal transformer, then continuous power of 2060 will not be 100W but ~80W only.
All these confusions are arising due to the ill quoted power output figures in Norge website.
This are only my assumptions. I may be wrong. Actually, I hope I better be wrong this time.
Can anybody verify the VA rating of the transformer from Mr. Bajaj? Man I asked him so many questions in mail, maybe thirty of them, I fear to ask any more.:lol:
Common terms used:
V : Volts, VAC : Volts AC, VDC : Volts DC, A: Ampere, Watts : V X A
Norge 2060
My previous assumption regarding the Toroidal Transformer
VA Rating: 206.50 VA
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 4A
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 4A = 196.00 VAC
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC
---------------------------
Total = 206.50 VAC = 206.50 watts ~ 207 watts
-------------------
Now just reducing one ampere from the (24.5VAC x 2, 4A) rail :
VA Rating: 157.50 VA
Secondary Output :
i) 24.5VAC x 2, 3A
ii) 15VAC X 2, .35A
This transformer will be able to deliver:
49V X 3A = 147.00 VAC
30V X 0.35A = 10.50 VAC
---------------------------
Total = 157.50 VAC = 157.50 watts ~ 158 watts
If this is the case & I hope it is not, then the 2060 will have ~80W (40W X 2) of continuous power only.
Last edited:
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Good news guys, today bought the : Yamaha DSP-A2070 Digital Sound Field Processing Amplifier
Link: http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/20613-yamaha-dsp-a2070.html
Link: http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/20613-yamaha-dsp-a2070.html
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Thanks kaushik.
Eastern Electronics is a small manufacturer, we all have to remember that. What Mr. Bajaj is doing at his age is simply astounding, he almost single handedly caters the budding Indian audiophytes to take their first step in this audiophyle world.
The power supply section of Norge 1000 is simply stunning for a 10K amp.
We can always DIY and make it better. There is always a scope of improvement. But whatever, the truth is at 10K you cannot find a better amp in India than Norge 1000 GOLD.
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i have asked this query elsewhere also.. can the Norge 1000 can drive Wharfdalre 10.4 floorstanders (http://www.hifimart.com/wharfedale-diamond-104-52)?
looking at the power rating it should be driving them but my doubt is because these are floorstanders does it need anything extra?
looking at the power rating it should be driving them but my doubt is because these are floorstanders does it need anything extra?
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
The Norge 1000 GOLD is perfectly capable to drive these Warfedale floorstanders.
I will advise you to have an audition of these speakers with Norge 1000 before you buy.
What is your budget for the amp?
I am driving Energy RC-30 (200W 8 ohms) with Norge 1000 and I cannot go beyond 11 o clock, so you conclude
Audiodoc
Well-Known Member
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A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
