Anyone using Standalone Preamplifier / control amplifier ?

[Hiten]

Hi,
Any forum member using separate pre- power? Intrested to know about preamplifier. Specially indian make like Cosmic, DNM, Sonodyne, Pulz or Norge.

Am looking for one with defeatable tone control and phono.

Few words about performance and inside pictures would be great.

Thanks and regards.

 

[arj]

Hi,
Any forum member using separate pre- power? Intrested to know about preamplifier. Specially indian make like Cosmic, DNM, Sonodyne, Pulz or Norge.

Am looking for one with defeatable tone control and phono.

Few words about performance and inside pictures would be great.

Thanks and regards.

I do use a pre power..but one learning I have had is a preamp controls the sound far more than a power amp and since it amplifies lower level signals a lot more, needs far more care and will not come cheap. Unless you are using a passive pre.

So for the price better off getting an integrated. Which power amp are you using ?

 

[Hiten]

I am planning discrete Class AB or TDA729x(as second option) DIY power amp depending on getting good transformer. All my past power amps were DIY. so I need separate tone and phono pre. I have very good CNC Phono preamplifier. I am particularly interested in affordable Indian make as in future i do see buying an integrated amplifier (keeping the diy system as backup).

Regarding preamp control over poweramp you are very correct. Also it depends on maximum power transfer of the signal. So a well made preamp and power amp do work nicely together. I am not technical person but it depends on output and input impedance.
Regards

 

[morerajendra5678]

Hi,
Any forum member using separate pre- power? Intrested to know about preamplifier. Specially indian make like Cosmic, DNM, Sonodyne, Pulz or Norge.

Am looking for one with defeatable tone control and phono.

Few words about performance and inside pictures would be great.

Thanks and regards.

I am using Seperate Tube Pre-amplifier. Pre-amplifiers tend to define sound signature of your system more than that of an amplifier. Some of my Pre-amplifiers are Transformer coupled and hence can match any amplifier but couple of them are also not transformer coupled so matching becomes a key thing.
For solid state Pre-amplifiers matching with amplifier is a lesser challenge.
In tube Pre-amplifier, the main tube determines the sound signature. Sound signature as in midrange centric, more airy treble etc.
DNM stuff is good in quality. There is also Lyrita Audio in Delhi which makes DHT Pre-amplifier. Very neutral and musical.
My experience has been that combining Tube Pre-amplifier with solid state amplifier gives a lot of warmth and power to the system.
Ultimate sound from a system is not always about the quality of components used inside but is about synergy of components used in equipments. You can talk to designers about their product and select the best possible one for yourself.

 

[sunder]

I have had is a preamp controls the sound far more than a power amp and since it amplifies lower level signals a lot more,

So that , is this preamp alone capable to drive high sensitivity full range speakers? Is it possible, if the preamp has the speaker terminals? Thanks.

 

[arj]

So that , is this preamp alone capable to drive high sensitivity full range speakers? Is it possible, if the preamp has the speaker terminals? Thanks.

the preamp drives the amp..but it has very low input signals which it needs to amplify uptp the amplifiers required input sensitivity. that can be a 10-20db gain usually

Some of the older mcintosh preamps like C32 had speaker terminals and around 12w of usable power

 

[morerajendra5678]

Some of the older mcintosh preamps like C32 had speaker terminals and around 12w of usable power

EC Design also has a model which has a dac in it and can drive the speakers without having an amplifier section. Output is very limited something similar to what you have mentioned.

So that , is this preamp alone capable to drive high sensitivity full range speakers? Is it possible, if the preamp has the speaker terminals? Thanks.

But what advantage will you gain by using such Pre-amplifiers. The ones that exist are with very limited output power. A bit of headroom in power enables to have more control on speakers.
Pre-amplifier is mostly used for shaping up the sound of the system. Some Pre-amplifiers even have the Bass and Treble control to enable users to customise the sound as per his preference. Amplifier is for final presentation of sound.

 

[sunder]

Some of the older mcintosh preamps like C32 had speaker terminals and around 12w of usable power

I see. But I think the impedance matching between the output of the source and the input of the preamp is very important for the quality of the sound. So that we should be aware of when buying a player or a amp. Thanks Arjun. Regards.

 

[arj]

I see. But I think the impedance matching between the output of the source and the input of the preamp is very important for the quality of the sound. So that we should be aware of when buying a player or a amp. Thanks Arjun. Regards.

In majority ofnthe cases this is standardized.. in some cases especially when using phonostages with low outputs it becomes important especially in passive pres

 

[rwnano]

I have been using a Harman kardon AVR amplifier for driving my transmission line speakers . They are driven well with the trademark Harman kardon sound - viz loud punchy. I wonder if i can get a better experience via separates ? Pre power..? Any suggestions?

 

[arj]

I have been using a Harman kardon AVR amplifier for driving my transmission line speakers . They are driven well with the trademark Harman kardon sound - viz loud punchy. I wonder if i can get a better experience via separates ? Pre power..? Any suggestions?

Try a simple...stereo integrated eg an Exposure / Arcam/Cyrus etc if you can. the simplicity of an Integrated usually makes it better than any AVR since it has lower processing and focus on 2 channel. if you get a used Naim in your budget even that will be very good.

The acoustic portrait swara is also great for its price..if someone is letting go then their pre power is also very good value used.

Denons integrated amps are also usually really good value and with very good sound. if you can get the one Prem has mentioned in his thread you may be really surprised . its not really available in india but can get it on ebay ( 230V) for 200 GBP or so.

 

[morerajendra5678]

I have been using a Harman kardon AVR amplifier for driving my transmission line speakers . They are driven well with the trademark Harman kardon sound - viz loud punchy. I wonder if i can get a better experience via separates ? Pre power..? Any suggestions?

Yes experience with seperates will be different. Level of synergy will be different, smoothness will be at higher notch.
Try to have a tube based Pre-amplifier. Even the acoustic potrait has tube based Pre-amplifier only. DHT Pre-amplifier of Lyrita Audio has a good fan-following and to me also was very musical (I have heard it personally). For the amplifier you may opt for solid state based (for higher power) or tube based for warmth and smoothness. Tube Pre-amplifier + Class D power is also a very good combo.

 

[hifimaddy]

Modern solid-state amplifiers typically require little gain to operate most DACs, Bluetooth receivers, or other sources, which can drive them more easily. Alternatively, if it is a high-gain solid-state ,tube amplifier or a unity-gain amplifier. Do you enjoy the sound quality of your amplifier? If so, you might not need a preamplifier; however, if you're looking for more flavours to your system, a good preamplifier could be a great addition.

I am in the process of constructing a unity gain amplifier to use alongside my Aikido preamplifier. This is to emphasise my preamplifier within the system.

 

[square_wave]

the preamp drives the amp..but it has very low input signals which it needs to amplify uptp the amplifiers required input sensitivity. that can be a 10-20db gain usually

Some of the older mcintosh preamps like C32 had speaker terminals and around 12w of usable power

However, depending upon the sensitivity of a loudspeaker, one may not need any amplification of signal at all in the preamplifier, no ? In most mainstream preamps, any position on the left side of the midpoint "0", is just high quality attenuation of the incoming signal from a source typically a CD. Most of the time, people never go beyond the midpoint unless one is driving a low efficiency loudspeaker and the power amplifier connected to the preamp is low to mid power.


Then the questions arises ? Why an active preamp at all ? It helps with current delivery (not just voltage) and impedance matching. It’s fundamentally a buffer, driver, and interface stage all build into one. I have noticed they maintain consistent drive characteristics and the volume changes don’t mess with system behaviour. Proper gain staging improves overall system control and balance in most cases. A passive preamp can work well with short cables, high input impedance amp and very strong DAC output stages combination. A system approach is needed to understand this as always..

 

[arj]

However, depending upon the sensitivity of a loudspeaker, one may not need any amplification of signal at all in the preamplifier, no ? In most mainstream preamps, any position on the left side of the midpoint "0", is just high quality attenuation of the incoming signal from a source typically a CD. Most of the time, people never go beyond the midpoint unless one is driving a low efficiency loudspeaker and the power amplifier connected to the preamp is low to mid power.
View attachment 95844

Then the questions arises ? Why an active preamp at all ? It helps with current delivery (not just voltage) and impedance matching. It’s fundamentally a buffer, driver, and interface stage all build into one. I have noticed they maintain consistent drive characteristics and the volume changes don’t mess with system behaviour. Proper gain staging improves overall system control and balance in most cases. A passive preamp can work well with short cables, high input impedance amp and very strong DAC output stages combination. A system approach is needed to understand this as always..

I guess in the end it depends on the Loudspeaker sensitivity but also in the total gain in the system. eg if your phono is giving you a 50+db on MM or have a high output DAC a s well as the poweramp is 20db+ then a passive preamp works .

But if the source is low gain..or even the amp is a low gain amp you may lose dynamics with a passive pre.

If using digital it is easier and a thumb rule that pre + Power amp gives at least 25-27db for 93 db or other speaker and give more than around 28 dB for slightly lower sensitivity you are OK. Consider Passive pre=0dB

 

[arj]

I have been using a Harman kardon AVR amplifier for driving my transmission line speakers . They are driven well with the trademark Harman kardon sound - viz loud punchy. I wonder if i can get a better experience via separates ? Pre power..? Any suggestions?

There is an excellent rega brio for sale at a great price

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/mint-condition-rega-brio-integrated-amplifier.103851/

 

[rwnano]

Thank you all for your kindness in responding sincere greetings

There is an excellent rega brio for sale at a great price

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/mint-condition-rega-brio-integrated-amplifier.103851/