Apple music to launch lossless streaming

Looks like the homepods are getting lossless support.

Yes. The Apple support page linked in the article is the same as the one @Analogous has provided in his post above. Future software upgrade will enable lossless (ALAC) on HomePods.
 
New iPod Touch is rumored to be on the way later this year. If this would feature a digital out and an enable music controls from an iPhone, it could be the perfect solution for streaming Apple Music to our hifi systems. Airpods Max, Lossless streaming and now a new iPod Touch. Looks like Apple is serious about the audio game.

 
there is a new icon Apple Digital Master.

Is the lossless here?
 

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there is a new icon Apple Digital Master.

Is the lossless here?
Seeing it since updating to iOS 14.6. The stream might still be throttled. The lossless was to be launched from June. Incidentally, the WWDC 2021 Apple event is on Jun 7.

By the way, it’s coming to Apple TV through TVOS 14.6:
 
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Seeing it since updating to iOS 14.6. The stream might still be throttled. The lossless was to be launched from June. Incidentally, the WWDC 2021 Apple event is on Jun 7.

By the way, it’s coming to Apple TV through TVOS 14.6:
Oh Unfortunately Apple TV can’t do above 48hz.
 
I too joined Apple Music. I also have Spotify & Tidal. In Non-HD format among the three, I liked Spotify. Apple second, Tidal 3rd. I only compared for a couple of songs though. I will know better when I compare extensively. It would be interesting to compare when Apple & Spotify lossless is available.

Regarding App, Apple Music for Android is not crashing for me till now. Maybe 3-4 hours listen. Regarding features & Catalog, I am still exploring.
 
Pl see this link, it is only 256kbps AAC
I think this page talks about creating apple digital masters which they used to call iTunes masters. This doesn’t specifically mention anything in context with upcoming hi-streaming.

AAC 256kbps is what Apple Music been streaming.
 
I think this page talks about creating apple digital masters which they used to call iTunes masters. This doesn’t specifically mention anything in context with upcoming hi-streaming.

AAC 256kbps is what Apple Music been streaming.
Now that’s encouraging
 
There is an interesting discussion on this topic in the Roon forum, specifically this particular comment by Miles_Account caught my attention.

"As I said earlier (you also referenced this) Apple doesn’t actually care about lossless/audio quality.

Here is what they do care about; advantages over their largest competitor.

Spotify doesn’t have Spatial audio. Apple is very aware of how little difference high resolution makes (see countless threads on even this, a HiFi forum, of people actually having to debate and show graphs just to prove there is a difference). In the consumer space, if you have to point to graphs and argue with a customer about the supposed merits of your technology, it doesn’t have value.

What does have value is a technology that immediately presents itself to the customer as different. There is zero debate that there is a change, it can be up to the individual whether they prefer it or not but there is zero discussion and zero graphs on whether it is different.

This is spatial audio. Regardless of how anyone on this forum feels about its merits I have seen the “wow factor” that it illicits from people who play music from their phone speakers. Dolby Atmos is a game-changer because it's an advancement in audio technology that any consumer can notice and in the cases I have seen, greatly desire.

Spotify does not have this, they have a massive install base, larger than anyone else and more damningly, a free tier. This matters when you are going triple the amount of data you potentially have to stream to those people. The free users matter because Spotify does not make any money off those users, it's considered a gateway to a premium sub but it is not profitable. They won’t stream high res to them but the cost of them plus the cost of the additional bandwidth required for lossless and the storage costs add up.

Apple just dealt a double whammy. Spotify now can’t charge for the increase in costs of these lossless subs and they have adopted a technology Spotify is behind on, that is popular with consumers.

How do I know Apple doesn’t care about audio quality? Well as pointed out earlier in this thread they aren’t allowing people to pay them for lossless files, they aren’t upgrading them and their own products don’t support High Res.

They only care about Spatial audio, that technology requires lossless:

https://developer.dolby.com/technology/dolby-audio/dolby-truehd/ 2

Spatial audio is why Apple is supporting lossless. This has nothing to do with resolution or bit depth."

 
There is an interesting discussion on this topic in the Roon forum, specifically this particular comment by Miles_Account caught my attention.

"As I said earlier (you also referenced this) Apple doesn’t actually care about lossless/audio quality.

Here is what they do care about; advantages over their largest competitor.

Spotify doesn’t have Spatial audio. Apple is very aware of how little difference high resolution makes (see countless threads on even this, a HiFi forum, of people actually having to debate and show graphs just to prove there is a difference). In the consumer space, if you have to point to graphs and argue with a customer about the supposed merits of your technology, it doesn’t have value.

What does have value is a technology that immediately presents itself to the customer as different. There is zero debate that there is a change, it can be up to the individual whether they prefer it or not but there is zero discussion and zero graphs on whether it is different.

This is spatial audio. Regardless of how anyone on this forum feels about its merits I have seen the “wow factor” that it illicits from people who play music from their phone speakers. Dolby Atmos is a game-changer because it's an advancement in audio technology that any consumer can notice and in the cases I have seen, greatly desire.

Spotify does not have this, they have a massive install base, larger than anyone else and more damningly, a free tier. This matters when you are going triple the amount of data you potentially have to stream to those people. The free users matter because Spotify does not make any money off those users, it's considered a gateway to a premium sub but it is not profitable. They won’t stream high res to them but the cost of them plus the cost of the additional bandwidth required for lossless and the storage costs add up.

Apple just dealt a double whammy. Spotify now can’t charge for the increase in costs of these lossless subs and they have adopted a technology Spotify is behind on, that is popular with consumers.

How do I know Apple doesn’t care about audio quality? Well as pointed out earlier in this thread they aren’t allowing people to pay them for lossless files, they aren’t upgrading them and their own products don’t support High Res.

They only care about Spatial audio, that technology requires lossless:

https://developer.dolby.com/technology/dolby-audio/dolby-truehd/ 2

Spatial audio is why Apple is supporting lossless. This has nothing to do with resolution or bit depth."

Seems like one man’s opinion.

All these raging debates and long posts are pointless to average consumers and many audiophiles.

I don’t give a rats bum if Apple cares enough about lossless or not. Personally I only care about how it would sound to me vs Spotify etc.

I’m just waiting for the first chance I get to ditch Tidal :p
 
Personally I only care about how it would sound to me vs Spotify etc.
Take a blind test and chances are pretty high that most of the time, you won't be able to differentiate between AAC/FLAC/Hi-Res when sourced from the same Master. Master is the Key. Those who got better Master will sound Better. :)
 
Take a blind test and chances are pretty high that most of the time, you won't be able to differentiate between AAC/FLAC/Hi-Res when sourced from the same Master. Master is the Key. Those who got better Master will sound Better. :)
I beg to differ…while Master is key, there are other variables too, the software, how they stream, format, your system etc. So IMO…all we can do it try for ourselves :)

And the differences could be easily noticeable provided the system is resolving and transparent enough.
 
Pl see this link, it is only 256kbps AAC
You are looking up AAC - the current streaming format. The proposed one - ALAC is lossless.The document you should be reading is this one:


That’s disappointing
Of course not. Ironically, you had posted the above (appropriate) link.

They only care about Spatial audio, that technology requires lossless:

https://developer.dolby.com/technology/dolby-audio/dolby-truehd/ 2

Spatial audio is why Apple is supporting lossless. This has nothing to do with resolution or bit depth."
Whatever be the (alleged) reason, fact is the lossless will be valued by us audiophiles. What do I care if Apple gains a competitive advantage over the market leader as a result of the strategy! Spotify would come up with something else - that’s how competition works in favour of customers.

Take a blind test and chances are pretty high that most of the time, you won't be able to differentiate between AAC/FLAC/Hi-Res when sourced from the same Master. Master is the Key. Those who got better Master will sound Better.

So are you also saying that you cannot make out the difference between lossless and 256 kbps lossy streams derived from a good master? You are lucky as that’d save you the cost of upgrading your BT speakers/ earphones. Those who hear the difference won’t mind upgrading for the better experience. Of course they are aware that a poor quality master won’t sound great just because it’s served lossless. Fortunately, most music, especially international, has good mastering.
 
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Pl see this link, it is only 256kbps AAC
Please Read this document carefully, initially they explain the Garbage about SRC, Bit Depth etc but cleverly stay away from Mentioning the specifics of the Loseless Apple music is going to come out with.
Most importantly, They're asking a Specific Bit Rate or Master quality with no or minimal processing from the Recording studios. They're going to Remaster them at Apple to suit their streaming requirements.
We Can Soon See "Apple Certified Master Recording", with Apple Certified Streaming Protocol on Apple Certified Devices /Streamers. Resemblance to MQA fiasco anyone? You can deduct the ramifications of this. Tidal or MQA didn't have the financial muscle to propagate their pseudo superiority, but That's not the case with Apple.

My Word of Advice :
If you are Fence sitting on buying a Streamer Currently ; Postpone it until things with Apple are clearer. I don't know how much its going to dent Spotify, but it'll be a significant blow to Tidal services. Apple entry will be disrupting the Loseless Services scene, similar to what Jio did in Telecom services scene in India. Qobuz may survive due to its niche customer base initially but ultimately they'll have to lower the tariff to stay relevant. Apple will see Roon as an unnecessary involvement, because User Friendliness Roon interface will be a direct competition with User friendliness of Apple Music. Apple may try to throttle Roon by Not Allowing Apple Music to Integrate with Roon Service, Or ignoring it completely (2 Minutes of Silence for those who bought Roon Lifetime Subscription recently , like myself :().

Spatial Audio is going to be another weapon in the arsenal if executed properly, but I dont know how many of our Current AVR will be able to play it the Apple specified way. Though it has been a dud previously but seeing a push from Apple, they may have gotten certain technical advancement to push it further. Similarly calling for Remastering indicates there's some Technical Advancement Apple has achieved to make it more universally appealing.
beg to differ…while Master is key, there are other variables too, the software, how they stream, format, your system etc.
Precisely, They'll control everything in the chain, if they have got a certain Phenomenal Advancement in this field, from the Rumors it looks like they have.

The free users matter because Spotify does not make any money off those users
Partially incorrect, the Advt revenue comes from them.



Take a blind test and chances are pretty high that most of the time, you won't be able to differentiate between AAC/FLAC/Hi-Res when sourced from the same Master.
Very Correct, But Apple Fanboys will immediately jump on the Best SQ just based on the Logo. Haven't you experienced that with Die hard Bose Fans?
 
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So are you also saying that you cannot make out the difference between lossless and 256 kbps lossy streams derived from a good master? You are lucky as that’d save you the cost of upgrading your BT speakers/ earphones. Those who hear the difference won’t mind upgrading for the better experience.
Well, I don't want to divert from the original topic but since you raised this point, let me shed some light on this. AAC works based on the way humans perceive sound. Our ears are more sensitive to certain sounds and less sensitive to certain sounds. That's the exact principle AAC relies on to remove information to reduce the file size. A good AAC at a constant bitrate of 320 kbps can consume up to 70/80% of the original WAV file size. It was tested over thousands of users to perfect this protocol over a span of a decade. That said, the amount of humanly perceivable information it removes, it's negligible. It almost sounds like 90% of the original WAV file. It sounds dull because of the way most of the streaming providers use AAC to encode (256 kbps/Variable bit rate), not because the AAC is a bad encoding protocol.

Now, the rest 10% comes under the Law of the Diminishing Return. You are free to shell out as much as you want in your quest for the rest of 10% i.e the 'Perfect Sound'. Happy Listening. :)
 
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