Apple music to launch lossless streaming

[Deleted member 15865]

Short answer is "Get use to it"

There are other ways too. I am reminded of my MBA days (back in the nineties) when one of the top recruiters, a major multinational bank, placed hires from IIMs at a higher level than hires from other top institutes. Our batch at SPJIMR decided not to allow the company (which was a Day zero recruiter) to participate in the campus placements unless they changed this, conveying it clearly to them. So that year we willingly let go of the few offers this bank conventionally gave to our students. This determination paid off as they came back the next year offering the same position to our next batch (onwards) as to the IIM hires.

We always have a choice. I am not renewing my Apple Music subscription till they introduce lossless in India.

 

[shyamv]

You are saying this is better than MQA?
I did not know Tidal streamed FLAC. Only Qobuz

All files in Tidal HiFi plan are FLAC, whether they are MQA Masters or CD quality or Hires. FLAC is both a compression algorithm (like MQA) and also a container format (like ALAC). MQA encoded files can be packaged in any lossless audio format such as FLAC or ALAC. Tidal used FLAC to package it's MQA files as well as non-MQA hires files.

 

[Analogous]

All files in Tidal HiFi plan are FLAC, whether they are MQA Masters or CD quality or Hires. FLAC is both a compression algorithm (like MQA) and also a container format (like ALAC). MQA encoded files can be packaged in any lossless audio format such as FLAC or ALAC. Tidal used FLAC to package it's MQA files as well as non-MQA hires files.

@shyamv, now I am getting a bit confused.
Could you explain this a bit more to a non techie.

All I understand at this point are:
FLAC is compressed but still a lossless format. FLAC can be further converted/compressed (?) to MP3 or MQA or other formats.
There may or may not be audible quality differences between FLAC and MQA depending on the equipment I use, the quality of original recordings and my hearing capacity
Qobuz is the only one to stream in FLAC (above CD quality if recordings are available)
Tidal does not stream in FLAC upto CD quality or MQA (two options) higher resolution FLAC files are not available.
Is this a fair summary?

 

[shyamv]

One of the previous posts got it right. Firstly, Apple Lossless is not aimed at Audiophiles and neither do they (or majority of their consumers) actually care about lossless audio. Apple's entire ecosystem today is not built to handle audio resolution beyond 24/48. Airplay supports up to CD quality only. Apple's Bluetooth product (Airpods or speakers) don't support Aptx HD or LDAC
and nothing beyond CD quality is possible over BT. Even Apple TV or Apple Lighting to 3.5mm connector can do only up to 24/48. Third-party streaming apps such as BubbleUPnP, mConnect does not support Apple Music. Only way to actually get real hires from any Apple product is to use a third-party non-Apple DAC to a connect to an Apple phone and even this driver support is sparse and buggy. In short, Apple's Lossless game is remarkably hobbled even before it starts unless it can revamp its entire ecosystem. If you are seeking real Lossless on Apple, it is still a myth unless Apple does something about it and I don't think they really want to.

This whole lossless campaign by Apple is primarily a strategy to preempt the upcoming Spotify Lossless launch by giving it away without any additional fee. Spotify is now forced to rethink it's pricing strategy. With Spatial Audio, Apple is trying to catch up Dolby Atmos and 360 Audio on Tidal but this is primarily a marketing gimmick anyway. But Tidal is not Apple Music's real competition. It is Spotify and this salvo by Apple is squarely aimed at it. They are late to the Audio Hifi/Lossless game and this is is their last ploy.

Some bait to Apple Fanboys now ;-) .. If MQA is a scam, Apple Lossless is an even BIGGER scam.

 

[shyamv]

@shyamv, now I am getting a bit confused.
Could you explain this a bit more to a non techie.

All I understand at this point are:
FLAC is compressed but still a lossless format. FLAC can be further converted/compressed (?) to MP3 or MQA or other formats.
There may or may not be audible quality differences between FLAC and MQA depending on the equipment I use, the quality of original recordings and my hearing capacity
Qobuz is the only one to stream in FLAC (above CD quality if recordings are available)
Tidal does not stream in FLAC upto CD quality or MQA (two options) higher resolution FLAC files are not available.
Is this a fair summary?

Audio encoding algorithm is seperate from an audio container format package. I can package milk inside a glass bottle or beer (Obviously I prefer the later . FLAC is both a lossless compression algorithm and also a lossless audio container. MP3 is a completely different lossy format and has nothing much to do with FLAC. AAC is also another lossy compression codec and format.

MQA uses its own lossy algorithm to compress/master/equalize hires audio and packages it mostly into a FLAC container. Tidal Premium uses 320kbps AAC. On thr other hand, Tidal HiFi uses either regular non-MQA encoded FLAC or MQA-encoded Masters FLAC. But file format is both cases is FLAC.

Qobuz uses non-MQA encoded FLAC and so does Amazon Music HD and radio services like Radio Paradise.

 

[Analogous]

@shyamv !!!!
I asked for a jargon free explanation.
Now I am wondering about “audio container”, format package” and compression codec”…

So….”hey Siri…”

 

[shyamv]

@shyamv !!!!
I asked for a jargon free explanation.
Now I am wondering about “audio container”, format package” and compression codec”…

So….”hey Siri…”

Container and format are one and the same ie the audio file...the bottle. Audio codec/encoding/compression etc what goes inside this file ie milk or beer! Hope I did a better job at explaining this time. If I did, you can buy me a bottle of beer!

 

[mahender]

apple music India website is updated with lossless and Dolby atmos audio info and I can see lossless settings on my ATV 4k but still, tracks are not available in lossless

 

[Analogous]

Container and format are one and the same ie the audio file...the bottle. Audio codec/encoding/compression etc what goes inside this file ie milk or beer! Hope I did a better job at explaining this time. If I did, you can buy me a bottle of beer!

You get the bottle of beer @shyamv, for the right reasons

 

[Analogous]

apple music India website is updated with lossless and Dolby atmos audio info and I can see lossless settings on my ATV 4k but still, tracks are not available in lossless

This seems like the online version of (scenes of) people camping outside Apple stores before the release of the latest and greatest iPhones…
Carefully selected, calibrated leaks, building the anticipation…starting @Rs.99 per month…lossless !

 

[thedude]

Signed up for a 3 month trial with US account and lossless showed up instantly

Phone is setup on India account. But I used US ID in iTunes Store to switch Music app to US. However when signing up for trial it asked me to transfer the device to US Apple ID for 90days. This means I can’t switch Music (and iTunes Store?) app to my India ID for 90days.

Will setup on Mac tonight.

 

[jai1611]

Here is Darko review on same. Enjoy couple of lights moments

A more nuanced take from him here https://darko.audio/2021/06/apple-musics-hi-res-streaming-is-a-bit-of-a-mess/

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I played my test album -: Alisha Bombay girl which sounded horrible previously on. Apple Music and is not available in any platform in good quality. I played it again with lossless tag yesterday and it still sounds horrible like a 64kbps file. Apple simply added a lossless sticker to most albums !!

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I played my test album -: Alisha Bombay girl which sounded horrible previously on. Apple Music and is not available in any platform in good quality. I played it again with lossless tag yesterday and it still sounds horrible like a 64kbps file. Apple simply added a lossless sticker to most albums !!

It’s useless upsampling originals that have low resolution. Even streamers/DACs do that, right? Doesn’t help much. Let’s hope most of their lossless content is from uncompressed (or analog) masters and the said album of Alisha is a rare exception.

Did too try comparing lossy and lossless versions of some well-recorded album - like say Dire Straits’ ‘Brothers in Arms’? Do you hear a step up in quality with the lossless?

 

[thedude]

I played my test album -: Alisha Bombay girl which sounded horrible previously on. Apple Music and is not available in any platform in good quality. I played it again with lossless tag yesterday and it still sounds horrible like a 64kbps file. Apple simply added a lossless sticker to most albums !!

One bad apple…chop down the tree

 

[abawa]

i am also looking forward to check what apple does to lots of latest hindi catalog songs from the likes of T Series/ gaana originals , which are nowhere available even in CD quality on streaming apps. Qobuz does label few of them to 24bits/96hz but the content is essentially 320kbps as verified in Spek. Hope Spotify / Apple brings them in CD quality at the least

 

[Deleted member 15865]

A more nuanced take from him here https://darko.audio/2021/06/apple-musics-hi-res-streaming-is-a-bit-of-a-mess/

He has mixed issues specific to Apple lossless (eg 24/48 limitation) with issues that are about Apple Music itself (like no native streaming or Audirvana integration). Whether intentional or not, that deviates from the objective he states in the first sentence of the video. That’s either obfuscation or unclear thinking.

Hope Spotify / Apple brings them in CD quality at the least

How could they? Won’t it take remastering, provided the original tapes are still available?

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

One bad apple…chop down the tree

Actually the problem is bigger than one bad Apple. There could be more bad apples disguised as good apples.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I played my test album -: Alisha Bombay girl which sounded horrible previously on. Apple Music and is not available in any platform in good quality. I played it again with lossless

It’s useless upsampling originals that have low resolution. Even streamers/DACs do that, right? Doesn’t help much. Let’s hope most of their lossless content is from uncompressed (or analog) masters and the said album of Alisha is a rare exception.

Did too try comparing lossy and lossless versions of some well-recorded album - like say Dire Straits’ ‘Brothers in Arms’? Do you hear a step up in quality with the lossless?

No Sachin, will try after work. I am sure there are some popular songs which would be in high quality like every other service. But just adding a lossless logo to their old horrible versions is just plain cheating.

 

[cooltoad]

What sort of reporting by HT? Copy paste from other sites, nothing about India. Even amazon hd, Tidal yet to come to India, same licensing issues should be for Apple too, so why the needless hype?

Signed up for a 3 month trial with US account and lossless showed up instantly

Phone is setup on India account. But I used US ID in iTunes Store to switch Music app to US. However when signing up for trial it asked me to transfer the device to US Apple ID for 90days. This means I can’t switch Music (and iTunes Store?) app to my India ID for 90days.

Will setup on Mac tonight.

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What sort of reporting by HT? Copy paste from other sites, nothing about India. Even amazon hd, Tidal yet to come to India, same licensing issues should be for Apple too, so why the needless hype?

My earlier post... So, nothing has changed. I'll be glad to be proved wrong.
PS:Sorry couldnt edit the multiple posts.