Are we going to have an endless medical inflation?

[Donivlapog]

Well, I recently ended up getting billed 4k for my driver for a GERD related chest pain that mimiced a heart attack. It was a biryani he ate and since he was my acting duty driver, i bore the bill. Although it was an ER facility of a big hospital, for an ECG and some pan D and muccaine gel, a prescription and a couple of nurses smiling at him saying "you are ok", a 4k bill was on the high side of things. Definitely he could not afford such a bill. Does it justify this charge?

 

[Analogous]

If it was a government (tertiary) hospital it might have been free or much less. You would have met an equally skilled doctor, in a less fancy, more crowded, less clean but well equipped facility.

Corporate hospitals charge whatever as they know you don’t want to go to Government hospitals for whatever reasons you may have.
In the past decade the Government has promoted corporate health care and insurance models in a big way.

The medical industrial complex is a very influential lobby and the vast majority of healthcare professionals are cogs in the wheel who don’t decide the charges (but have to face the public everyday)

The costs of equipping, maintaining and having a team of specialised health professionals ready to attend to any medical emergency 24/7 in a well managed facility are significant. And then there is the cost of consumables and medications.

As you have alluded the salary paid to the driver and the overall disparity in incomes and affordability of such care is concerning. It all boils down to broader public policies and choices made by those we vote for.

Good gesture on your part to help.

How much do Indian households spend on healthcare every month? - CEDA

In this CEDA-CMIE bulletin, we look at how much money Indian households spend on healthcare and related services. We examine these patterns by region (urban-vs-rural), state, and household income.

3.109.83.61

 

[hydra]

Like most things aping the West, I'm sure that medical expenses in private medical-care facilities are going to keep going higher. Other than having a decent health insurance plan (for unforeseen situations and things we have no control over), the only way to protect ourselves (and maybe fight back too), is to prioritize a healthy lifestyle.

 

[Analogous]

Like most things aping the West, I'm sure that medical expenses in private medical-care facilities are going to keep going higher. Other than having a decent health insurance plan (for unforeseen situations and things we have no control over), the only way to protect ourselves (and maybe fight back too), is to prioritize a healthy lifestyle.

+1 to that
We All need to demand answers from those standing for elections on their plans for improving public health care and increasing budgets for health from the dismally low allocations

 

[sdk]

Well, I recently ended up getting billed 4k for my driver for a GERD related chest pain that mimiced a heart attack. It was a biryani he ate and since he was my acting duty driver, i bore the bill. Although it was an ER facility of a big hospital, for an ECG and some pan D and muccaine gel, a prescription and a couple of nurses smiling at him saying "you are ok", a 4k bill was on the high side of things. Definitely he could not afford such a bill. Does it justify this charge?

After 35 years in practice and now retired I'm so sick of these kind of whining

It should be a rule that anyone who wants to whine about doctors and hospital fees should first introduce themselves by profession, last 10 years salary increments, current salary or pension and then start the whinging.

Society seems to think that only they have to rights to a great salary and comfortable retirement while hospitals should not recover the hundreds of crores of investment and doctors should eke out a beggarly existence with no job security or pension while people strut around sanctimoniously about nobel profession

What were the various scenarios that you could have done
1. Done nothing or let him seek treatment on his own on his account, basically treat him as a responsible adult
2. Treat him yourself with an antacid for 3 days and watched. And risk it being a heart attack
3. Taken him or sent to a govt hospital for free treatment. Since you don't pay him a living wage to seek treatment in a hospital of your choice, he should go to a hospital that he can afford in your salary
4. Taken him to a charitable clinic or hospital, if you wanted the feel good factor and boasting rights of treating him
5. Or the hospital you chose which was a large tertiary care hospital with all in-house facilities

So this problem, divided into 3 parts
1. You could have enabled the adult temp driver into seeking his own treatment while counseling him about his dietary choices
2. You could have taken him for treatment and paid whatever the cost at the hospital you chose
3. You could have thanked the hospital on seeing your patient immediately, finding nothing wrong, on an emergency basis and not have a dead driver on your hands due to a heart attack

But the choice you made is that you want to cry publicly on this forum about the cost of decisions you made, deride the medical profession and hospitals and paise yourself, while patting yourself on the back as to what a great employer you are to treat a temporary driver in your employ

You are exactly the type of person who would have screamed blue murder, threatened the doctor and hospital for negligence, bargained for lowering of fees after getting a negative report or if the doctor has sent the patient home with only an antacid and it later turned out as a heart attack, sue them

Let's take 1 hour as the total time spent by you in the hospital

You were attended by the security guard, receptionist, cashier, CMO, RMO, ECG technician, physician, cardiologist, nurse, attendant, ward boy, sweeper and ayah. We won't be including the maintenance, consumables, amortization or interest costs or even liability insurance costs

You paid on average Rs 307 for each of them who attended to your patient in that hour. Try finding a plumber, gas mechanic, electrican etc at those rates, forget trained professionals

This on a forum that spends hundreds on banana plugs, thousands on speaker cables and power cables, tens of thousands on room treatment and sometimes lakhs on equipment.

 

[spirovious]

Personally l feel there should be a range. Every year 20% hike is very high. Attended recent seminar of heath insurance company and bills like 70lakhs were presented. Charges also are high when person has a mediclaim.

 

[sdk]

Personally l feel there should be a range. Every year 20% hike is very high. Attended recent seminar of heath insurance company and bills like 70lakhs were presented. Charges also are high when person has a mediclaim.

Though my field is not covered by mediclaim do you know that hospitals are reimbursed by the TPA after 6 to 9 months? That too after a bribe is paid to process the claim? So who bears the loss of capital and interest?

Do you know that in many hospitals the surgeons and doctors are paid upto a year after discharge? Do you know that out of the fat bill that you were presented the doctor's fees are a small fraction of the total? 30 percent of that fees is then retained by hospital for the pleasure of working there?

I'm amazed at the complaints by people who choose the doctor, choose the hospital, choose the class of bed, see the schedule of charges and then crib about the bill

I can guarantee you that the 70L bill would have been 20L or less if a smaller hospital with a younger doctor in a 4 seater general class bed was chosen or a few thousands if treated in a govt hospital

I want to know who held a gun to the patient to get admitted in the hospital of the 70L bill

 

[TD150]

After 35 years in practice and now retired I'm so sick of these kind of whining

It should be a rule that anyone who wants to whine about doctors and hospital fees should first introduce themselves by profession, last 10 years salary increments, current salary or pension and then start the whinging.

Society seems to think that only they have to rights to a great salary and comfortable retirement while hospitals should not recover the hundreds of crores of investment and doctors should eke out a beggarly existence with no job security or pension while people strut around sanctimoniously about nobel profession

What were the various scenarios that you could have done
1. Done nothing or let him seek treatment on his own on his account, basically treat him as a responsible adult
2. Treat him yourself with an antacid for 3 days and watched. And risk it being a heart attack
3. Taken him or sent to a govt hospital for free treatment. Since you don't pay him a living wage to seek treatment in a hospital of your choice, he should go to a hospital that he can afford in your salary
4. Taken him to a charitable clinic or hospital, if you wanted the feel good factor and boasting rights of treating him
5. Or the hospital you chose which was a large tertiary care hospital with all in-house facilities

So this problem, divided into 3 parts
1. You could have enabled the adult temp driver into seeking his own treatment while counseling him about his dietary choices
2. You could have taken him for treatment and paid whatever the cost at the hospital you chose
3. You could have thanked the hospital on seeing your patient immediately, finding nothing wrong, on an emergency basis and not have a dead driver on your hands due to a heart attack

But the choice you made is that you want to cry publicly on this forum about the cost of decisions you made, deride the medical profession and hospitals and paise yourself, while patting yourself on the back as to what a great employer you are to treat a temporary driver in your employ

You are exactly the type of person who would have screamed blue murder, threatened the doctor and hospital for negligence, bargained for lowering of fees after getting a negative report or if the doctor has sent the patient home with only an antacid and it later turned out as a heart attack, sue them

Let's take 1 hour as the total time spent by you in the hospital

You were attended by the security guard, receptionist, cashier, CMO, RMO, ECG technician, physician, cardiologist, nurse, attendant, ward boy, sweeper and ayah. We won't be including the maintenance, consumables, amortization or interest costs or even liability insurance costs

You paid on average Rs 307 for each of them who attended to your patient in that hour. Try finding a plumber, gas mechanic, electrican etc at those rates, forget trained professionals

This on a forum that spends hundreds on banana plugs, thousands on speaker cables and power cables, tens of thousands on room treatment and sometimes lakhs on equipment.

All bullshit to justify the theft by such hospitals. Once they know you have insurance policy they will unnecessary bill you till the amount is over. What have you got to say about it? Medical profession is not to rob people, behaving in unethical manner should not be tolerated. You must be knowing that these hospitals get land on reduced cost for noble cause from government and for that the government has a policy that poor people should be give certain beds/ medical treatment at low cost. Where are the such hospitals disclosing these information? Why are they hiding such information and medical policies under the state government Jyotiba phule yogena where poor people can be treated upto one lakh rupees in such hospitals.

Sir, with due respect to you, you might not be amongst them, but the fact remains and all know/have experienced such hospitals loot patients who are helpless in times of medical emergency.

 

[keith_correa]

@sdk: Thank you for your perspective. It was illuminating and hard hitting both of which was necessary. It has forced me to think and understand more about the "other" side. I stand educated.

 

[Donivlapog]

After 35 years in practice and now retired I'm so sick of these kind of whining

It should be a rule that anyone who wants to whine about doctors and hospital fees should first introduce themselves by profession, last 10 years salary increments, current salary or pension and then start the whinging.

Society seems to think that only they have to rights to a great salary and comfortable retirement while hospitals should not recover the hundreds of crores of investment and doctors should eke out a beggarly existence with no job security or pension while people strut around sanctimoniously about nobel profession

What were the various scenarios that you could have done
1. Done nothing or let him seek treatment on his own on his account, basically treat him as a responsible adult
2. Treat him yourself with an antacid for 3 days and watched. And risk it being a heart attack
3. Taken him or sent to a govt hospital for free treatment. Since you don't pay him a living wage to seek treatment in a hospital of your choice, he should go to a hospital that he can afford in your salary
4. Taken him to a charitable clinic or hospital, if you wanted the feel good factor and boasting rights of treating him
5. Or the hospital you chose which was a large tertiary care hospital with all in-house facilities

So this problem, divided into 3 parts
1. You could have enabled the adult temp driver into seeking his own treatment while counseling him about his dietary choices
2. You could have taken him for treatment and paid whatever the cost at the hospital you chose
3. You could have thanked the hospital on seeing your patient immediately, finding nothing wrong, on an emergency basis and not have a dead driver on your hands due to a heart attack

But the choice you made is that you want to cry publicly on this forum about the cost of decisions you made, deride the medical profession and hospitals and paise yourself, while patting yourself on the back as to what a great employer you are to treat a temporary driver in your employ

You are exactly the type of person who would have screamed blue murder, threatened the doctor and hospital for negligence, bargained for lowering of fees after getting a negative report or if the doctor has sent the patient home with only an antacid and it later turned out as a heart attack, sue them

Let's take 1 hour as the total time spent by you in the hospital

You were attended by the security guard, receptionist, cashier, CMO, RMO, ECG technician, physician, cardiologist, nurse, attendant, ward boy, sweeper and ayah. We won't be including the maintenance, consumables, amortization or interest costs or even liability insurance costs

You paid on average Rs 307 for each of them who attended to your patient in that hour. Try finding a plumber, gas mechanic, electrican etc at those rates, forget trained professionals

This on a forum that spends hundreds on banana plugs, thousands on speaker cables and power cables, tens of thousands on room treatment and sometimes lakhs on equipment.

Cool down. No personal attacks pls.

 

[sdk]

All bullshit to justify the theft by such hospitals. Once they know you have insurance policy they will unnecessary bill you till the amount is over. What have you got to say about it? Medical profession is not to rob people, behaving in unethical manner should not be tolerated. You must be knowing that these hospitals get land on reduced cost for noble cause from government and for that the government has a policy that poor people should be give certain beds/ medical treatment at low cost. Where are the such hospitals disclosing these information? Why are they hiding such information and medical policies under the state government Jyotiba phule yogena where poor people can be treated upto one lakh rupees in such hospitals.

Sir, with due respect to you, you might not be amongst them, but the fact remains and all know/have experienced such hospitals loot patients who are helpless in times of medical emergency.

Rushing to exhibit your ignorance about govt audit is what causes such posts. All tertiary care hospitals, at least in Mumbai, will have a board in the OPD itself about the number of free beds and how many are occupied. Failing these audits causes fines in lakhs to the hospital, it's cheaper to admit poor patients than to not

These beds are filled by references from social workers and local politicians who certify that the patient is poor

If you feel that rich patients lie and get admitted through such politicians, then it's not the hospital's fault as they necessarily have to admit all patients whose paperwork is correct.

If actual beneficiaries are not getting beds then it's our fault to elect such politicians and not the hospital's

Case in point, my carpenter's son managed to slice his thumb into 2 with a circular saw

Hinduja hospital quoted 4.5L as emergency fees to do the reattachment fees by calling the whole plastic and microsurgery team at midnight to attach the thumb again

After agreeing to these fees and getting the surgery done, my carpenter who had told me that his income for that year was 29L, went to the local MLA the next day and got the social worker to waive off all charges by claiming to be poor

Other than 50K for consumables used in the surgery and after, no one got paid anything.

The plastic surgeon must have felt like a chump for getting out of the warm embrace of his wife to work for free in an emergency

And so did i because I contributed 10K by withdrawing money late at night and delivering it to him at his house because he claimed that he did not have money. Even though the accident happened when the boy was moonlighting at some other site and i had nothing to do with it

 

[girishtd8262]

Have you ever seen a person complaining about 5*hotel bills and their food and beverage charges.
People have conservative mindset when they have to spend on health.
In India people doesn't plan for health expenditure they consider it as a extra burden.
I have seen people spending lavishly on other lifestyle but when they come to hospital they ask ayushman facility.they come in cars v well dressed byt yet they want free treatment.

No one asking them to visit corporate hospital it's by their choice they go there .once you are in ,its their right to know the cost of treatment .
Once decided no point in cribbing about the charges.
Govt doesn't give subsidy to any medical devices.most of them are imported .
Do you know the cost of mri machine is 7-8 cr and AMC is about 60-70l per year .and machine has tobe continuously running in a air-conditioned room 24×7.
It should be er be shutoff even for a minute.tge cost of restarting the machine is v high .who will bear those charges .apart from this the bank loan interest on investment. It's the pts who go there has to pay for these things .it's just one example i gave.
Salaries of employees have gone up considerably.its not easy to get a good trained nursing staff with out paying heafty amount.
People want service at the touch of a button. But doesn't think how much does it cost to provide that.

 

[Donivlapog]

Have you ever seen a person complaining about 5*hotel bills and their food and beverage charges.
People have conservative mindset when they have to spend on health.
In India people doesn't plan for health expenditure they consider it as a extra burden.
I have seen people spending lavishly on other lifestyle but when they come to hospital they ask ayushman facility.they come in cars v well dressed byt yet they want free treatment.

No one asking them to visit corporate hospital it's by their choice they go there .once you are in ,its their right to know the cost of treatment .
Once decided no point in cribbing about the charges.
Govt doesn't give subsidy to any medical devices.most of them are imported .
Do you know the cost of mri machine is 7-8 cr and AMC is about 60-70l per year .and machine has tobe continuously running in a air-conditioned room 24×7.
It should be er be shutoff even for a minute.tge cost of restarting the machine is v high .who will bear those charges .apart from this the bank loan interest on investment. It's the pts who go there has to pay for these things .it's just one example i gave.
Salaries of employees have gone up considerably.its not easy to get a good trained nursing staff with out paying heafty amount.
People want service at the touch of a button. But doesn't think how much does it cost to provide that.

If he didnt get his money's worth he would complain about the 5 star hotel bill too.

 

[girishtd8262]

If he didnt get his money's worth he would complain about the 5 star hotel bill too.

Yes sir they will complain about the quality but not about the price.

 

[Analogous]

After 35 years in practice and now retired I'm so sick of these kind of whining

It should be a rule that anyone who wants to whine about doctors and hospital fees should first introduce themselves by profession, last 10 years salary increments, current salary or pension and then start the whinging.

Society seems to think that only they have to rights to a great salary and comfortable retirement while hospitals should not recover the hundreds of crores of investment and doctors should eke out a beggarly existence with no job security or pension while people strut around sanctimoniously about nobel profession

What were the various scenarios that you could have done
1. Done nothing or let him seek treatment on his own on his account, basically treat him as a responsible adult
2. Treat him yourself with an antacid for 3 days and watched. And risk it being a heart attack
3. Taken him or sent to a govt hospital for free treatment. Since you don't pay him a living wage to seek treatment in a hospital of your choice, he should go to a hospital that he can afford in your salary
4. Taken him to a charitable clinic or hospital, if you wanted the feel good factor and boasting rights of treating him
5. Or the hospital you chose which was a large tertiary care hospital with all in-house facilities

So this problem, divided into 3 parts
1. You could have enabled the adult temp driver into seeking his own treatment while counseling him about his dietary choices
2. You could have taken him for treatment and paid whatever the cost at the hospital you chose
3. You could have thanked the hospital on seeing your patient immediately, finding nothing wrong, on an emergency basis and not have a dead driver on your hands due to a heart attack

But the choice you made is that you want to cry publicly on this forum about the cost of decisions you made, deride the medical profession and hospitals and paise yourself, while patting yourself on the back as to what a great employer you are to treat a temporary driver in your employ

You are exactly the type of person who would have screamed blue murder, threatened the doctor and hospital for negligence, bargained for lowering of fees after getting a negative report or if the doctor has sent the patient home with only an antacid and it later turned out as a heart attack, sue them

Let's take 1 hour as the total time spent by you in the hospital

You were attended by the security guard, receptionist, cashier, CMO, RMO, ECG technician, physician, cardiologist, nurse, attendant, ward boy, sweeper and ayah. We won't be including the maintenance, consumables, amortization or interest costs or even liability insurance costs

You paid on average Rs 307 for each of them who attended to your patient in that hour. Try finding a plumber, gas mechanic, electrican etc at those rates, forget trained professionals

This on a forum that spends hundreds on banana plugs, thousands on speaker cables and power cables, tens of thousands on room treatment and sometimes lakhs on equipment.

I could be mistaken but I don’t think he was blaming doctors for the high cost. No need to take this personally.

As a medical professional myself I am also concerned with rising costs of treatment to patients including of those close to me.
I feel this is a complex issue that can not be addressed by simplistic solutions or being defensive.

High quality health care is a right for all citizens. We should hold every government accountable to provide free or affordable care to anyone who needs it.

Privatisation of health care to corporates is a cop out and is being touted as a solution for the woeful condition of care today in the public sector.

Let’s not forget that health Insurance used to pay these corporate hospitals is also payment either directly by us or through public funds (taxes paid by us)
The British NHS (despite its shortcomings) is an example of good quality health care.

I do believe with adequate budget allocations, good planning and efficient management we can also aspire to quality health care In our public hospitals with well paid staff, good equipment and facilities.

 

[Donivlapog]

So i am coming to a conclusion that an MRI, PET, CT, RT equipments, Oxalyplatin and other high rate equipments and drugs, plus a 5 storied state of the art infra plus many Dr.Shylocks and his QRNPs have to be fed and pampered with and buttering their financial status and the baits are people with anemergency health issue. Therefore the inflation. Makes sense. And who the fish needs to care for these people as they are assumed to get 29L a year. Now makes sense. Was the per capita income of India around $1700 a year or something? So they can afford. Got it.

 

[girishtd8262]

So i am coming to a conclusion that an MRI, PET, CT, RT equipments, Oxalyplatin and other high rate equipments and drugs, plus a 5 storied state of the art infra plus many Dr.Shylocks and his QRNPs have to be fed and pampered with and buttering their financial status and the baits are people with anemergency health issue. Therefore the inflation. Makes sense. And who the fish needs to care for these people as they are assumed to get 29L a year. Now makes sense. Was the per capita income of India around $1700 a year or something? So they can afford. Got it.

Boss there are govt hospitals which are catering to do many people.no one is asking people to visit pvt hospitals.it all depends on the budget.
Just imagine the status of health care 30 yrs back . ultrasound had just come in then .ct was unheard off.
So what was the life expectancy of cancer pts in those days .once diagnosed people use to die of fear.
Now with modern gadgets it's easy to diagnose and treat.it comes with a price at pvt hospital.
If people are happy with what ever treatment they get it's their choice.
I rest my case here.
No use of discussing.it will neither bring down cost of treatment nor will make people understand about this.
It's simple you are free to visit hospital of your choice.
Idlies are available for rs2 on road side eatery and at 100 per idly at a hotel it's upto the people to decide whr to have it.
People want treatment like UK and USA but to be billed like ayushman India.which is not possible
To get just simple hernia surgery in nhs uk people need to wait for 8-10 months.thats the reality.
Indian health care system is one of the best

 

[panditji]

Ironic that we are talking about pricey medical services on an audio hifi forum where the cost of 1 metre power cables can equal that of a bypass surgery...

 

[keith_correa]

I don't understand how "inflation" figures in all of this? I haven't seen one post about the increasing cost of treatment vs what it used to be - that would be a discussion about inflation. This is more a thread about the high cost of medical treatment - that is termed inflated and not inflation. If we are talking about inflation, which service industry does not get affected by inflation? And why would they be immune to inflation? Many medical centers are run by corporates and they are in this to turn profitable while providing a service. It's just like any other business. If I go to a "3+ star" hospital or the likes of it, I expect to be saddled with a bill that's high. Now, after receiving the bill and having paid for it, if I then complain about the high bill, it's on me. Of course we can complain about not getting our money's worth but that is a subjective vs objective discussion - the same as audio.

 

[Donivlapog]

A similar medical service was costing Rs.500 at most a few years ago. Now it is 8 times as much. A flight ticket to Delhi costing 5k five years ago is priced 6k now. Not much of a "inflation" here.