Audio Rack Shelves?
- Thread starter myriad
- Start date
I am using only the Feet of silence..bought them in simgapore
Solid tech's website states J&B Sounds, Mumbai their indian distributor.
hello all
ive been reading this thread and i need some tutions
i have auditioned a few audio gear recently
i understand how the stands play along with a speaker and hence have expereinced how a wooden stand sounds compared to a metal one in case of speakers.
well ,in speakers its obvious that the material on which the speaker in placed might effect its sound
HOWEVER i fail to understand how and why the material on which and AMP or CDP is placed affctects the sound.
i would assume these are electronic devices converting digital to analogue signals and then amplifiying it ( they dont actually play the music as the speaker)
how then do people describe that components placed on glass sound any different from those placed on wood,grantite et etc.
what the technicality behind this
please explain
Note: i understand the use of isolaters/leveling devices for tranasport devices - now this is a sepertate issue - i.e isolating vibrations to the transport etc
i would like to know why and how does the shelf material below the isolater change the sound siganture.?
ive been reading this thread and i need some tutions
i have auditioned a few audio gear recently
i understand how the stands play along with a speaker and hence have expereinced how a wooden stand sounds compared to a metal one in case of speakers.
well ,in speakers its obvious that the material on which the speaker in placed might effect its sound
HOWEVER i fail to understand how and why the material on which and AMP or CDP is placed affctects the sound.
i would assume these are electronic devices converting digital to analogue signals and then amplifiying it ( they dont actually play the music as the speaker)
how then do people describe that components placed on glass sound any different from those placed on wood,grantite et etc.
what the technicality behind this
please explain
Note: i understand the use of isolaters/leveling devices for tranasport devices - now this is a sepertate issue - i.e isolating vibrations to the transport etc
i would like to know why and how does the shelf material below the isolater change the sound siganture.?
hello all
ive been reading this thread and i need some tutions
i have auditioned a few audio gear recently
i understand how the stands play along with a speaker and hence have expereinced how a wooden stand sounds compared to a metal one in case of speakers.
well ,in speakers its obvious that the material on which the speaker in placed might effect its sound
HOWEVER i fail to understand how and why the material on which and AMP or CDP is placed affctects the sound.
i would assume these are electronic devices converting digital to analogue signals and then amplifiying it ( they dont actually play the music as the speaker)
how then do people describe that components placed on glass sound any different from those placed on wood,grantite et etc.
what the technicality behind this
please explain
Note: i understand the use of isolaters/leveling devices for tranasport devices - now this is a sepertate issue - i.e isolating vibrations to the transport etc
i would like to know why and how does the shelf material below the isolater change the sound siganture.?
Hello Magma,
All these days, i used to think the same. But after trying few materials for shelves i noticed each changes the sound. IMO both MDF and glass are bad for shelves (though MDF marginally better than Glass). I am no technical guy so i cannot answer the technicality behind it. But different shelves do make diffrence to sound.
Regards
Vasu
Hi Magma
I use glass for my speakers base and because the speakers are directly in contact with glass and transfer vibrations, it makes a difference to the sound. I know this because I used speakers without spikes for a month, then speakers+spikes directly on log of wood for another month before moving to glass on suckers. As for amp/cdp rack, I have no comparative experience if material will make difference since I used mdf and stuck with it. Certainly if vibrations from the air cause the shelf to resonate at a frequency that resonance will be picked up by the transformer and the mechanical vibrations will affect sine waves generated in the amp creating bad harmonics perhaps. But I have not tried different material so I cannot tell. I am sure the effect will be minimized with products like vibrapods though.
In another thread I pointed out that granite is actually made of quartz like crystals that amplify resonance within the material at the crystalline/molecular level. Similar principles might come into play for other materials creating different vibrations at their different resonating frequencies to affect the overall texture or tone of the sound.
Regards
I use glass for my speakers base and because the speakers are directly in contact with glass and transfer vibrations, it makes a difference to the sound. I know this because I used speakers without spikes for a month, then speakers+spikes directly on log of wood for another month before moving to glass on suckers. As for amp/cdp rack, I have no comparative experience if material will make difference since I used mdf and stuck with it. Certainly if vibrations from the air cause the shelf to resonate at a frequency that resonance will be picked up by the transformer and the mechanical vibrations will affect sine waves generated in the amp creating bad harmonics perhaps. But I have not tried different material so I cannot tell. I am sure the effect will be minimized with products like vibrapods though.
In another thread I pointed out that granite is actually made of quartz like crystals that amplify resonance within the material at the crystalline/molecular level. Similar principles might come into play for other materials creating different vibrations at their different resonating frequencies to affect the overall texture or tone of the sound.
Regards
unleash_me
Well-Known Member
Well you are not alone my friend. But this very uncertainty of yours is what helps the multi billion dollar audiophile tweaking industry grow stronger every year.
How about this for your next upgrade?
Audiophile stupidity: Audiodesk CD lathe - improves sound quality of CDs | NoiseAddicts music and audio blog
If that hasn't impressed you, there are many more "ideas" to make ones hearing ability esoteric heights.
http://p a r s e i d o n.com/general/ridiculous-audiophile-equipment [remove the spaces the URL]
Cheers.
P.S. Shoot me if i have ruffled any feathers!
The following comment is simply hilarious:
"And not only can you vastly improve the sound of your CDs, DVDs etc.; no, it also works wonders on software CDs! After I treated my Windows installation disc with this marvellous device and re-installed, my system runs without a glitch, while before it crashed several times a week!"
Bill Gates should simply stop spending money on the development of new OS. he should buy a billion pieces of the CD Lathe and package it with his Windows 3.1. Just a little shaving of the CD edges and we will then all be in OS bliss!! Wow !! Maybe we poor Indians should take a sandpaper to all our CDs and DVDs.
Cheers
"And not only can you vastly improve the sound of your CDs, DVDs etc.; no, it also works wonders on software CDs! After I treated my Windows installation disc with this marvellous device and re-installed, my system runs without a glitch, while before it crashed several times a week!"
Bill Gates should simply stop spending money on the development of new OS. he should buy a billion pieces of the CD Lathe and package it with his Windows 3.1. Just a little shaving of the CD edges and we will then all be in OS bliss!! Wow !! Maybe we poor Indians should take a sandpaper to all our CDs and DVDs.
Cheers
unleash_me
Well-Known Member
ROFL :lol:
Not sure of the intent of the post..if it was drawing attention to some really silly audiophile level snakeoil you are spot on, but if it was a point on myriads query then it was in rather poor taste.
Myriad had a simple query based on his experience...
Its perfectly ok not to understand stuff but if someone has experienced something for himself /herself, it does make sense to believe the person first than disbelieve !magma, from what i could make out on this topic, every material has a certain resonant frequency.
each material absorbs some frequencies and can even enhance some frequencies via its resonance. in case of CDPs vibrations make the maximum impact with every vibration of the CD the reading of the sensors get impacted (if the cd tilts by x degrees, the angle of incidence gets impacted by 2x )and hence this impacts the reading of the transport and can change the sound. the frequency of the vibration hence has an impact on the type of output sound even from a digital transport.
regarding the rack,ideally any shelf has 2 functions
1. Stop vibrations from the ground to get to the component
2. Stop vibrations from the component to get to the shelf and hence other components
(the third kind of vibrations is from the air ) i prefer having a system of both isolating as well as absorbing
narj
as i said earlier i dont dispute the need of isolaters or leveling devices for transports to aviod vibrations
its only that i feel that this resonant frequncy of the shelf/shelf materials ( after using an isolaters) having any audible effects ; is kind of pushing it.
however im a noob and ofcourse im looking for a more technical explantion for thesame
as i said earlier i dont dispute the need of isolaters or leveling devices for transports to aviod vibrations
its only that i feel that this resonant frequncy of the shelf/shelf materials ( after using an isolaters) having any audible effects ; is kind of pushing it.
however im a noob and ofcourse im looking for a more technical explantion for thesame
its an OK thing to look for explanations but then just because there is no explanation it does not mean that differences do not exist...As not all audible effects may have an explanation since even now we are not sure of what to measure.
eg for quite a few years differences between transports (even using the same mechanism/laser) were not undrestood and were disputes untill Jitters influence was understood.
Now it is measurable and explainable.
To be honest i have not even tried experimenting with materials to see if there is a difference..but there are quite a few people who do feel the difference and feel not reason to doubt there findings ! After all I used to be a cable sceptic and and seeing the difference so clearly now.
eg for quite a few years differences between transports (even using the same mechanism/laser) were not undrestood and were disputes untill Jitters influence was understood.
Now it is measurable and explainable.
To be honest i have not even tried experimenting with materials to see if there is a difference..but there are quite a few people who do feel the difference and feel not reason to doubt there findings ! After all I used to be a cable sceptic and and seeing the difference so clearly now.
Arj, I think all Unleash was trying to do was to bring in some humour into the discussion. Sometime we take life so seriously, we forget to smile.
I also want you to take what I am saying now with a open heart. I am not trying to start an argument or get into any heated discussion. And please consider it as my personal opinion.
The idea of vibration affecting jitter is overstated beyond a certain limit. What is jitter? It is, very simply put, the difference in digital data between what is written inside the media and what is read.
In most decent systems, this difference, if it happens, is miniscule - something like a couple of bits across a 10,000 or so bits or something like like .01 or .02 per cent. Now jitter can have two effects - one is where there is complete loss of data (seek jitter), and the other is mistiming (time jitter). Most systems have anti-jitter software. In the first case, they re-read the data a few times, and take the best sample. In the second case, they have a post read buffer where they recreate the signal completely removing the timing jitter.
There are two kinds of CD - one is a Yellow Book CD that is used for computer data. This does not have seek jitter at all, as the data comes with block sizing and with control data. At the end of each seek, the control data is calculated by the receiving station to assess the accuracy of the received data. If the calculated control data mismatches with the incoming control data, it simply re seeks the data. In other words each block of data is measured for accuracy.
In audio CD or Redbook CD, unfortunately, the control data does not exist, nor is there a mechanism for block level sizing. But there are various ways of solving this issue. One of the simplest is to to read multiple times (sampling) and compare the samples. Any extraneous data is simply stripped away as noise. Secondly, CD players can work at a much slower speed or extract the data of the whole disc and playing from the memory.
Beyond this step is of course the DAC that further processes the data for your ears.
Most CD players have in built dampeners that can handle vibration to a certain extent. If this were not true you can NEVER play a CD in a car or in portable devices such as CD-Walkman. Once the data has been read, it becomes electrical signal that is immune to physical vibration. Factors such as resistance and signal strength come into play, none of which is affected even if you shake the signal carrying cable physically.
At home, a decent rack that is heavy, level and steady is the best way of using a CD player. One of the most common materials used for shelves is wood which is reasonably thick enough to absorb vibration. Beyond this, exotic materials, isolators, suspensions, and things like this offer diminishing returns for the price they demand. Mind you, if you are so inclined there is no harm is using them. But are they absolutely necessary? I don't think so.
One of the easiest and inexpensive ways of solving this issue is to place the CD player on the floor or an a small stool made of hardwood such as teak, mahogany, or rosewood. Go to a second hand dealer, buy a good stool, polish it, and use it. You will need a longer cable, but the cost of the cable is far less than a exotic rack that has suspensions, isolators, and such.
Clean power, is, in my opinion more important. Low voltage, wrong frequency, etc., has a direct effect on the circuitry and can create glitches and noise that can be very clearly seen on the screen or heard in the audio. These have a direct effect on the electrical signal and signal strength, and thus are more important.
Cheers
unleash_me
Well-Known Member
Oh well it looks like I did manage to ruffle few feathers after all. But its cool, I saw it coming.
Enjoy your superpowers mate.
... and thanks Venkat for being a sport, as always.
Enjoy your superpowers mate.
... and thanks Venkat for being a sport, as always.
Hi Guys,
Interesting thread first and foremost.
Different materials (glass,wood,granite.....) will have an effect on the overall sound. I particularly stay away from glass for the reasons mentioned in this thread.
Magma it all boils down to how critical one is, how deep his pockets are and lastly how good his ears are. Tons of guys will read on the net and act accordingly EVEN IF they cant tell the difference. Naturally it makes no sense to buy the solid tech racks for budget set ups as it lacks basic economic sense. They are fantastic in every way but cost more than some decent HIFI set ups.
I have a rack made of solid Teakwood which has steel spikes at the bottom. Very sturdy and solid and i have tried to isolate each component as best i could. I too tried squash balls, cork blocks, rubber discs and god knows what else but could never hear a sonic improvement. What did make a difference in budget cdps is added weight on the top panel(I have thin bags filled with sand)My earlier cdps Nad C521,C542,Arcam CD192 benefitted whereas in the current Yamaha it makes no difference as its a heavy well built unit.
I read about ceraballs and tons of stuff that can enhance sound and i dont discount all this as snake oil but i dont really feel the need at the moment. I rather try some DIY experiments on similar principles.
Rgds
Interesting thread first and foremost.
Different materials (glass,wood,granite.....) will have an effect on the overall sound. I particularly stay away from glass for the reasons mentioned in this thread.
Magma it all boils down to how critical one is, how deep his pockets are and lastly how good his ears are. Tons of guys will read on the net and act accordingly EVEN IF they cant tell the difference. Naturally it makes no sense to buy the solid tech racks for budget set ups as it lacks basic economic sense. They are fantastic in every way but cost more than some decent HIFI set ups.
I have a rack made of solid Teakwood which has steel spikes at the bottom. Very sturdy and solid and i have tried to isolate each component as best i could. I too tried squash balls, cork blocks, rubber discs and god knows what else but could never hear a sonic improvement. What did make a difference in budget cdps is added weight on the top panel(I have thin bags filled with sand)My earlier cdps Nad C521,C542,Arcam CD192 benefitted whereas in the current Yamaha it makes no difference as its a heavy well built unit.
I read about ceraballs and tons of stuff that can enhance sound and i dont discount all this as snake oil but i dont really feel the need at the moment. I rather try some DIY experiments on similar principles.
Rgds
point taken
just though the humour may have diluted Myriads question which actually is an interesting oneAnother interesting observation - My DIY audio rack sways sideways when I push it partly because I haven't added the 5th shelf for want or rubber washers and partly because I made the holes 1 to 2 mm wider than the rod diameter a little unevenly with a round file.
I can sway the rack a bit continuously and it has no effect on the SQ. Perhaps this may be because it is not a resonating energy that I am applying.
On the whole however based on my experience with speakers and glass I am inclined to believe that isolation is a necessity.
Regards
I can sway the rack a bit continuously and it has no effect on the SQ. Perhaps this may be because it is not a resonating energy that I am applying.
On the whole however based on my experience with speakers and glass I am inclined to believe that isolation is a necessity.
Regards
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