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borg

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Captain/Guys

what is the final decision on customs? I am interested in a5.0 H.T setup using the encores possibly with sonicaps, but how about the customs duty,( freight will be less if they are coming by ocean),

My first experience in importing something wasnt good, mister x sent me a gamma2 dac
by usps and it was stuck in customs for than a month and no way to track or know where it is.finally for a 200$ dac board i paid 4000rs duty

so any experts here have any better solution for this ? also any body here willing help on making the cabs, even if it comes like the flatpack style it will be good enough, we just need to assemble/glue it . right guys?

Good question Baswamin, me too interested in the answer, in the audio circle page it says x omni for rear surround application, so is encore for front and centre and omni for rear surrounds a better option than using encores for front and back
 
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Danny Richie

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I was interested in center channel and surround speakers for my home theater. I think the X-CS Encore is the center channel speaker but do not find any option for surround speakers in the current sale. I have read that the surround speakers need to produce a diffused sound field and hence dipole/bipole speakers are preferred.
I never designed a dedicated wall mounted surround in the X Series.

The problem with dipole/bipole speakers is that it skaters segments of the signal all over the place in an unnatural way. So there is no where in the room that you can measure (or hear) anything that resembles the input signal.

I desinged a real solution for a wall mounted surround in my A/V Series: A/V-1RS - A/V-1RS

In the X-Series I did design a really good free standing surround speaker called the X-Omni. They are really good sounding speakers. Kits are available for those as well.

Can I use Original/encore X-LS and use a different enclosure design to create surround speakers of a home theater system?
You can use them as surrounds in some applications, but you'd have to maintain the enclosure design.

Are there any other other design considerations for surround speakers?
The A/V-1RS has been the home run of all designs for wall mounting. They are also be ceiling mounted facing the rear wall to get the same effect. They create a large non-localized sound field that is still very true to the signal.

I also have a little wiggle room on those to discount them.

And they match the X Series speakers very well.
 

Danny Richie

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Good question Baswamin, me too interested in the answer, in the audio circle page it says x omni for rear surround application, so is encore for front and centre and omni for rear surrounds a better option than using encores for front and back
Those X-Omni's work really well for left and right front main speakers too. They are very much like the mini-monitor (same drivers) with a larger sound field, and a less boxed sound.
 

baswamin

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Hey Danny,

Thank you for the clarification. Do you think the performance of x-omni is as good as dipoles offered as surround speakers by many companies like PSB, Monitor Audio etc?

I am not sure what changes are needed from a regular bookshelf design to make it act like dipole. In X-omni, is the top firing woofer causing it to produce a diffused sound field?

Thanks
 

borg

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Here it says omni's need to be 3ft from walls, deal breaker for me
A/V-O vs X-Omni vs X-Statik

A/v series looks very interesting due to the wall mounting option,
Danny , exactly how much wiggle room:D are you talking about for the a/v's

and how about a system like below

encores for fronts cs encore for centre and a/v's at rear driven by tripath 100w amp like this one, just as an example, i need to research better quality class d amps
Amazon.com: Sure 4x100W @ 4 Ohm TK2050 Class-D Audio Amplifier Board: Electronics

siva's myref gainclones(lm3886) was another option (i already have 2) but they are only 40wpc
http://www.hifivision.com/diy/11495-group-buy-mauro-penasa-myref-rev-c-kit.html

I was thinking to get these kits shipped to my us office in R.I and picking up later when i /colleague go there, if shipping to india turns up too costly due to freight/customs /insurance

how much will be the total weight of above kits, with minimum packing ( plan to bring in check in bag )
 
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omishra

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Hi Danny,

I am just unable to decide between "X-LS Encore" and "Original X-LS".
Will please tell some major enhancement in "X-LS Encore" over "Original X-LS"?

Thanks
 

Danny Richie

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Thank you for the clarification. Do you think the performance of x-omni is as good as dipoles offered as surround speakers by many companies like PSB, Monitor Audio etc?
Actually, none of those speakers come close to the performance of the X-Omni. For the most part, a wall mounted dipole creates a sound field that is a mess. Some of the rear channel signal is even directed towards the front of the room with those speakers.

I am not sure what changes are needed from a regular bookshelf design to make it act like dipole. In X-omni, is the top firing woofer causing it to produce a diffused sound field?
What most people don't understand is that it is still a direct radiating speaker.

If you take a woofer and play it full range (typical 6" woofer), and it is in a tradition front facing box. Lets say that it has some baffle step loss because of the box size and a slightly rising response that extends to about 8 to 10kHz.

Now it needs about a 2.0 to 3.0mH inductor to pull the lows off of it enough to compensate for the baffle step loss and to cross it over in the 2 to 2.5kHz range, plus other parts.

But if you start laying the woofer over (facing up) then the off axis response limits how high it plays because it looses output in the upper ranges as dispersion narrows.

By the time you have it laid over 90 degrees it has just enough off axis response to reach a tweeter at around 2kHz or less. There is no baffle step loss in the response either. So an inductor of about .68 to 1.0mH is needed and maybe one cap and you're done.

And in a typical speaker, changes in the vertical off axis changes the phase relationship of the drivers and alters the response. In an omni design, changes in the vertical off axis makes little to no change in driver alignment and the phase relationship is constant. So the vertical off axis response is constant too. And the room response is more even.

Think of it all this way. Take a cymbal, mount it in the middle of the room on a stand, and strike it with a drum stick. It radiates the same in all directions and you hear the room reflections as a delay that allows your brain to gather placement cues.

Now back it up against a wall and strike it again. Now all the wall reflections tell you a different sonic image. It sounds very different and less ambient or real even though the direct radiating wave that came straight from the instrument to your ear was the same. The spacial cues were different.

An omni speaker works the same way.
 

baswamin

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Hello Danny,

In line with other questions, can you also mention if it is possible to use X-LS encore in a enclosure similar to AV's? Are there differences between drivers in existing AV's and X-LS encore?
Like Borg, I would also be interested in AV's for surround applications.

Thanks
 

Danny Richie

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Here it says omni's need to be 3ft from walls, deal breaker for me
A/V-O vs X-Omni vs X-Statik
Yep, all omni speakers need to be well out into the room if they were designed to be used that way. At least 3 feet of space is needed to not allow the wall reflects to not alter the response. You want the wall reflection to sound like a delay of the original signal (long delay) and not like a smear of the original signal (short delay). So you are looking for about a 6ms delay or more. That means at least 3 feet from the walls.

A/v series looks very interesting due to the wall mounting option,
Danny , exactly how much wiggle room are you talking about for the a/v's
With the A/V-1RS the cancellation that is caused from the time arrival of the wall and ceiling reflection is in the range of the crossover region. So the drivers are overlapped more in that range to compensate. The result is an even room response even with the wall and ceiling related effects on the response. The added delay time of the wall and ceiling reflected sound creates add space and distance that gives them a bigger sound.

If you guys order a pallet load of product then I have enough wiggle room to discount my A/V Series speakers by 15%.

and how about a system like below

encores for fronts cs encore for centre and a/v's at rear driven by tripath 100w amp like this one, just as an example, i need to research better quality class d amps
Amazon.com: Sure 4x100W @ 4 Ohm TK2050 Class-D Audio Amplifier Board: Electronics
That would work out very well.

I was thinking to get these kits shipped to my us office in R.I and picking up later when i /colleague go there, if shipping to india turns up too costly due to freight/customs /insurance

how much will be the total weight of above kits, with minimum packing ( plan to bring in check in bag )
I have no idea what you guys will face with customs there.

A packed pair of X-LS Encores is about 14 pounds. A pair of the A/V-1RS's is about the same. The X-CS (center) is about 12 pounds.
 
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Danny Richie

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Hi Danny,

I am just unable to decide between "X-LS Encore" and "Original X-LS".
Will please tell some major enhancement in "X-LS Encore" over "Original X-LS"?

Thanks
The original version used a pretty good tweeter sourced from a company in China. It was good and very low cost. The Encore version uses the best Peerless tweeter. It is easily on par with the best dome tweeter out there from Scan Speak, Seas, Dynaudio, Morel, etc. So resolution and detail levels are all up a notch with the Encore version.
 

Danny Richie

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Hello Danny,

In line with other questions, can you also mention if it is possible to use X-LS encore in a enclosure similar to AV's? Are there differences between drivers in existing AV's and X-LS encore?
Like Borg, I would also be interested in AV's for surround applications.

Thanks
My A/V Series kits use a woofer that is almost just like the woofer used in the X Series kits, but the M-130 woofers, used in the A/V series kits, are 5.25" woofers while the larger M-165 woofers, used in the X Series kits, are 6.5" woofers. So that do require different box volumes and shapes.
 

baswamin

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Hello Danny,

Let me first thank you for taking time to answer all our queries. This is very useful and would help us take informed decisions. From all your replies, I gather the following:

1) For surround applications, we need to use either x-omni or A/V-1RS.

2) A/V-1RS uses smaller woofer (5.25") while omni uses larger ones (6.5"). Because of difference in size of woofers, we will require different dimension of enclosure as compared to existing A/V-1RS design.

3) Omni's are floor standing and need to be atleast 3 feet from walls while A/V-1 RS are wall mounting designs.

4) Both of these speakers produce more even dispersion of sound compared to other dipole surround speakers available in market today.

Based on our requirements, space etc, I need to make a choice.

Thanks
 
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borg

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A packed pair of X-LS Encores is about 14 pounds. A pair of the A/V-1RS's is about the same. The X-CS (center) is about 12 pounds.
Ok Danny i am taking these. one final question, do you agree that using A/V rs-1 for rear surround is better than encores

Where is captrajesh?, he too was in for a 5.0 system

c'mon guys help me to get that 15% discount
 
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Danny Richie

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Baswamin, I think you have it all figured out.

Ok Danny i am taking these. one final question, do you agree that using A/V rs-1 for rear surround is better than encores
Ideally, in a home theater layout, you want to be as far away from the rear speakers (think big space behind you) as you are from your front speakers. And you can use speakers of similar type and size. However, in practice, most people don't have that much space or that large of a room.

So speakers like the Omni's can really help out. Tweeters don't necessarily have to face the listener either. They can be turned slightly off axis to the listener to minimize direct energy and maximize sound stage size. They still need to be out in the room though. Room treatments on the walls right around the omni's will minimize the reflections and make the sound field feel a little larger.

In small rooms with seating near or on the rear walls, the wall mounted A/V-1RS design is a problem solver. They even work well on side or rear walls and even on the ceilings. Just try to keep them out of the corners (at least 18" away from corners) and as close to a 16" distance from the ceiling (or wall for ceiling mounters) to the tweeter.
 

keith_correa

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Doesnt that require intricate knowledge of the mentioned crossover design and what can be done with it ?
Well, I would say that intricate knowledge is not necessary but yes, knowledge is necessary and experience in voicing

The US version crossover is a collaborative effort between Danny and DAppolito. It is not the same as upgrading parts !
I'm basing my opinion on what I've read. I've read some more and I see that different articles have written differently on the nature of this "collaboration"

This thread says nothing that everyone does not know already about the BE-718. What's your point with referencing this thread?

And this article says what I have been saying. I quote from the article:
"Danny Richie of US-based GR Research had his hand in it, being tasked with employing premium crossover parts that would inch the Be-718s performance even higher"

Now, check this: 6moons audio reviews: Usher Audio Be-718 'Tiny Dancer'. Also check the response/feedback from MusicMatters [who are the US importers for Usher] on the review at the bottom of that page.

Now see this. This is also a MusicMatters site but they are saying something different here.

It's crazy! So, I'm inclined to go with what MusicMatters claims on their Usheraudiousa website. I'm OK with settling for what is claimed there:
"Design wizard Danny Richie, of Texas based GR-Research, boosts the stock crossover's performance to unprecedented levels by selecting premium crossover parts, altering parts values, re-tuning baffle step compensation and smoothing out the speaker's vertical off axis response." :cool:
 

keith_correa

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Regarding Usher and my work on the BE-718: Usher was paying Joe D' a consulting fee to basically use his name. And who wouldn't want to use his name? He is a well known industry founder. Usher designed the BE-718 and sent it to Joe. Joe tested and measured it and signed off on it. It was a really good design.

What happened after that was the North American importers sent me a pair to play with and asked me to see how far I could take them. They really felt like they could be better and wanted them to be more of a statement piece that would beat all other mini-monitors.

So I threw out the crossover and started over. In the end it was not far from their original design based on the order, but only two part values were common to the two of them, and I think those were resistors. I also chose the type of parts used and the quality of the Sonicaps, Mills resistors, and Erse XQ inductors were a significant improvement over the stock crossover. I sourced the crossover manufacturer as well.

Needless to say it was a lot better and won awards at just about every magazine. And they still slipped Joe D's name in there in all their advertising. Most reviewers thought he did the whole thing.
Thanks! for clarifying this Danny. I was really surprised to see different reviewers saying different things about your role in the x-over. I mean none were consistent in saying what role you played. And that includes MusicMatters in the 6moons review :D
 

Danny Richie

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Thanks! for clarifying this Danny. I was really surprised to see different reviewers saying different things about your role in the x-over. I mean none were consistent in saying what role you played. And that includes MusicMatters in the 6moons review :D
All of that was a little aggravating to me as well. Even Sterophile gave all the credit to Joe D for the design. Musik Matters and Usher were just trying to get all of the mileage that they could out of Joe's good name, and who wouldn't. But they brought it to me for a reason. They wanted it to sound better.

There are a dozen or so other companies out there that I have been doing design work for. Some mention me in their literature and some don't.
 

josephjohnt

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Hi Danny,

Will a receiver of 85W at 8ohms suffice for a 5.0 setup with these speakers?

Thanks
Joseph
 

omishra

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The original version used a pretty good tweeter sourced from a company in China. It was good and very low cost. The Encore version uses the best Peerless tweeter. It is easily on par with the best dome tweeter out there from Scan Speak, Seas, Dynaudio, Morel, etc. So resolution and detail levels are all up a notch with the Encore version.
Thanks Danny. I think now its time to go ahead and buy X-LS Encore. Let's see how many guys gather to combine shipping, further plans to build enclosure.

Captain, we need to put some timeline to get this closed. What you say?
 
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