Beware of Fraudulent Sellers

[bornfi]

I was wondering if there is anything like 'Buyers Protection' that we have in PayPal? Basically, one needs to be careful when making large sum of money. As recommended in past, when it is a high-value deal, it is best to meet in person and if not, try to find a fellow HFV member (who is willing to help) in the city where the target product is.

 

[jai1611]

I’m not sure if it’s reasonable to expect bills for everything. Even in tech forums, bills are only mandatory for products that are claimed to be under warranty.

Price is something that can be mutually agreed between buyer and seller. I’m not sure it’s fair to expect mods to try and police pricing.

There is inherent risk in buying out of station. A feedback system should help with this. Generally, there isn’t a safer option than checking products in person.

 

[Love4sound]

I’m not sure if it’s reasonable to expect bills for everything. Even in tech forums, bills are only mandatory for products that are claimed to be under warranty.

Price is something that can be mutually agreed between buyer and seller. I’m not sure it’s fair to expect mods to try and police pricing.

There is inherent risk in buying out of station. A feedback system should help with this. Generally, there isn’t a safer option than checking products in person.

Why is it not reasonable? How will you know when,where and for how much the product was purchased for? All dealers nowadays provide genuine receipt (hard and soft copy)which is easy to track and verify. If giving excuse as it’s not possible, we some times loose the bills, it’s very old is clearly the individuals fault and negligence.A subwoofer purchased 5 years back for 50k and selling it for 55k just cause the current model now sells at 90k and saying don’t have bill is really bad and unethical. As a seller sure share the bill and then quote three or 4 times high it’s his wish. Like the previous comment said this is not OLX and a forum for members who are passionate about sound. Even in OLX most of the people are selling with purchase proof and bill. I even find it very lame to even explain this much in the importance of bill and proof of purchase. As this thread says beware of fraudent sellers in my opinion people who are selling by withholding the bill and hiding the original cost are also fraudent sellers. I am sorry if I sound rude

 

[rikhav]

Why is it not reasonable? How will you know when,where and for how much the product was purchased for? All dealers nowadays provide genuine receipt (hard and soft copy)which is easy to track and verify. If giving excuse as it’s not possible, we some times loose the bills, it’s very old is clearly the individuals fault and negligence.A subwoofer purchased 5 years back for 50k and selling it for 55k just cause the current model now sells at 90k and saying don’t have bill is really bad and unethical. As a seller sure share the bill and then quote three or 4 times high it’s his wish. Like the previous comment said this is not OLX and a forum for members who are passionate about sound. Even in OLX most of the people are selling with purchase proof and bill. I even find it very lame to even explain this much in the importance of bill and proof of purchase. As this thread says beware of fraudent sellers in my opinion people who are selling by withholding the bill and hiding the original cost are also fraudent sellers. I am sorry if I sound rude

I think we can't Force forum to set rules on how much to price product for & post invoice
Forum is just giving a free service and if they are held responsible and forced to police everything they will find it more easy to shut sale section all together

Someone else might question that we don't question companies on their MRP , then why question individuals who are reselling something.

Best is to follow a self set rule , not to deal with anyone who is not sharing invoice for product on sale .
Ofcourse, I or anyone else can't force anyone to sell at their desired price or show invoice.
It will be sellers loss and his gain if he can sell at his price

 

[jai1611]

Why is it not reasonable? How will you know when,where and for how much the product was purchased for? All dealers nowadays provide genuine receipt (hard and soft copy)which is easy to track and verify. If giving excuse as it’s not possible, we some times loose the bills, it’s very old is clearly the individuals fault and negligence.A subwoofer purchased 5 years back for 50k and selling it for 55k just cause the current model now sells at 90k and saying don’t have bill is really bad and unethical. As a seller sure share the bill and then quote three or 4 times high it’s his wish. Like the previous comment said this is not OLX and a forum for members who are passionate about sound. Even in OLX most of the people are selling with purchase proof and bill. I even find it very lame to even explain this much in the importance of bill and proof of purchase. As this thread says beware of fraudent sellers in my opinion people who are selling by withholding the bill and hiding the original cost are also fraudent sellers. I am sorry if I sound rude

Five years back, soft copy invoices were not a normal thing. Even today, a lot of stores only provide hard copy invoices (eg Pai Electronics in Bangalore - I recently bought a fridge from them and only got a hard copy). Expecting people to retain invoices for stuff that is long out of warranty is unreasonable - there is enough clutter without hanging on to out of date paperwork.

pricing Is mutually decided between the seller and buyer. If someone feels the quoted price is unreasonable, they typically make a lower offer - something that’s quite common on this forum. If as a buyer your are not comfortable with the lack of an invoice, offer a price that reflects your discomfort. If the seller doesn’t agree, move on to a different product.

 

[Love4sound]

I think we can't Force forum to set rules on how much to price product for & post invoice
Forum is just giving a free service and if they are held responsible and forced to police everything they will find it more easy to shut sale section all together

Someone else might question that we don't question companies on their MRP , then why question individuals who are reselling something.

Best is to follow a self set rule , not to deal with anyone who is not sharing invoice for product on sale .
Ofcourse, I or anyone else can't force anyone to sell at their desired price or show invoice.
It will be sellers loss and his gain if he can sell at his price

I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make.

Five years back, soft copy invoices were not a normal thing. Even today, a lot of stores only provide hard copy invoices (eg Pai Electronics in Bangalore - I recently bought a fridge from them and only got a hard copy). Expecting people to retain invoices for stuff that is long out of warranty is unreasonable - there is enough clutter without hanging on to out of date paperwork.

pricing Is mutually decided between the seller and buyer. If someone feels the quoted price is unreasonable, they typically make a lower offer - something that’s quite common on this forum. If as a buyer your are not comfortable with the lack of an invoice, offer a price that reflects your discomfort. If the seller doesn’t agree, move on to a different product.

Please read the examples I shared. All were within a span of 2-5 years. I guess no one is able to understand the point I am making. We all made our points let’s leave it at that.

 

[rikhav]

I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make.

Please read the examples I shared. All were within a span of 2-5 years. I guess no one is able to understand the point I am making. We all made our points let’s leave it at that.

All I am trying to say is one has to make a decision himself not to buy from any member who is not sharing invoice if that matters.
One can't expect the forum to impose such a rule because they are not charging any money from members who is selling or buying
And yes showing an invoice makes it more transparent and that will aid in quick sale but again no one can't be forced unless a rule is set by the platform where ad is being hosted

 

[Love4sound]

Expecting people to retain invoices for stuff that is long out of warranty is unreasonable - there is enough clutter without hanging on to out of date paperwork.

CLutter? really ?LOL I have bills for all my purchase and some of them are 10 years old and all it took me is a file and a small space in a shelf. I have even taken photos for back up.

 

[Love4sound]

All I am trying to say is one has to make a decision himself not to buy from any member who is not sharing invoice if that matters.
One can't expect the forum to impose such a rule because they are not charging any money from members who is selling or buying
And yes showing an invoice makes it more transparent and that will aid in quick sale but again no one can't be forced unless a rule is set by the platform where ad is being hosted

Well its just my opinion to avoid fraudulent sellers and i requested the Mods. Even then i know we will have fraudulent sellers

 

[rikhav]

Well its just my opinion to avoid fraudulent sellers and i requested the Mods. Even then i know we will have fraudulent sellers

You can't call someone who is quoting more price (as per the buyer) or actually his buying price as "fraudulent"
It's his product and his wish.
As Jai said , one does not agree with price you just move on.
That seller is quoting his price before hand

He becomes "Fraudulent" when he accepts your money but does not send you anything or what was promised .

 

[Love4sound]

You can't call someone who is quoting more price (as per the buyer) or actually his buying price as "fraudulent"
It's his product and his wish.
As Jai said , one does not agree with price you just move on.
That seller is quoting his price before hand

He becomes "Fraudulent" when he accepts your money but does not send you anything or what was promised .

So not agreeing to say Wat price the seller purchased the product and denying to share the bill and agreeing to give the bill after receiving payment is normal?

 

[rikhav]

So not agreeing to say Wat price the seller purchased the product and denying to share the bill and agreeing to give the bill after receiving payment is normal? Thank u

I am not saying it's a norm but neither it's a rule set by the forum.
Why can't you just avoid buying something which does not have a right price ?
It's not that you are forced to buy to stay on the forum..
Just giving you an example.
Nothing personal against you or anyone else on the forum.
The person who is asking for way more then he should would be able to sell once or twice. That's it

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Hi Nikhil

I would request moderators to look in to one important factor in the sales section. Please make it mandatory to share bill or any proof of purchase. Lot of them are taking advantage of the inflating prices and selling at high prices and hiding the cost they actually spent. Let me share one example. The bic pl200-II is now sold for 39-40k with discounts. One of my friend reached out to a sales ad for the bic which was nearly 2 years old which would have been purchased for 30-33k. He was selling it for 35k and wen my friend asked for the purchase price and bill he refused to show the bill and agreed to share bill after payment is made.And another brand sub which is now sold for 85-90k was on sales ad and selling for nearly 70k which is 5 years old. I am sure he would have purchased it for 50-55k 5 years back.The owners can sell at any price it’s their wish but please make it mandatory to share bill and proof of purchase. My suggestion is to not approve ads with no proof of purchase.

But there’d be cases where a FM bought from another FM few years ago that he is putting up for sale now and in most such cases original receipts aren’t transferred or preserved.

i quite like the 91 posts 91 days rule that the mods have introduced. And not focusing on pricing moderation etc. The prime purpose of the classifieds as someone said above is to allow genuine FMs to sell/buy their surplus/desired gear. The new rule ensures that by keeping out those that join the forum with exclusive reason to resell goods. The 91 posts is the real deal as a non-serious person can wait out 91 days, but difficult to imagine writing 91 posts.

 

[delhite2]

@Love4sound it is completely irrelevant, if you want to know the purchase price of a item listen on the for sale, you can ask for it, and then if you end up buying it tally it up with the invoice that is given, if any discrepancy you can make a forum post to alert other members. Its simple.
Prices have been ever increasing due to weakening rupee & every person wants to get maximum buck for their stuff (mostly), so they would obviously be looking at the current selling prices especially if the product in question is still under warranty & could pass as a new product.
It is still at your will to buy or pass the product, as someone earlier mentioned you can not be forced to buy, especially not at the price you feel wrong due to any number of reasons.

 

[Love4sound]

@Love4sound it is completely irrelevant, if you want to know the purchase price of a item listen on the for sale, you can ask for it, and then if you end up buying it tally it up with the invoice that is given, if any discrepancy you can make a forum post to alert other members. Its simple.
Prices have been ever increasing due to weakening rupee & every person wants to get maximum buck for their stuff (mostly), so they would obviously be looking at the current selling prices especially if the product in question is still under warranty & could pass as a new product.
It is still at your will to buy or pass the product, as someone earlier mentioned you can not be forced to buy, especially not at the price you feel wrong due to any number of reasons.

I ask u just one question? For Wat comment are u responding ?

 

[delhite2]

I ask u just one question? For Wat comment are u responding ?

To the topic in previous posts, of sharing invoices.

 

[Love4sound]

To the topic in previous posts, of sharing invoices.

I clearly gave two examples and u have the answer . How is it irrelevant?

 

[superczar]

Well exactly my point. How will u know the right prize ?
Grow older? Really. Man some people are just waiting to start a fight. I’ll respond to u when I grow old Ty

Not sure what about my post offended you or made it appear as a war cry - If you read the post again, you will probably realize the age bit was meant in a nice way to allude to the fact that material purchases and associated paper trails become less important with age

 

[Love4sound]

Your point being "misquoted" prices due to
increased price of New goods, right?
Can't the invoice be forged to show inflated price?

Yes if the invoice is forged we can some how cross check with the seller. Like i said for argument sake we can keep coming up with points. Now you will ask what if the bill is real and you get fake product. It can go on and on

 

[Love4sound]

But there’d be cases where a FM bought from another FM few years ago that he is putting up for sale now and in most such cases original receipts aren’t transferred or preserved.

i quite like the 91 posts 91 days rule that the mods have introduced. And not focusing on pricing moderation etc. The prime purpose of the classifieds as someone said above is to allow genuine FMs to sell/buy their surplus/desired gear. The new rule ensures that by keeping out those that join the forum with exclusive reason to resell goods. The 91 posts is the real deal as a non-serious person can wait out 91 days, but difficult to imagine writing 91 posts.

I have sold my bic,svs sub cables and 4k firestick. I shared the bill through whats app to the buyers. They paid through Gpay. So they have two proofs now.