Bi-Amping through an AVR?

Luxman Amplifiers India

chander

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Dear FMs,

I stumbled upon this link today after watching a video on Bi-Amping AVRs. I never knew it was possible. Now I have a few questions to give it a try myself.

LINK - https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3700H/NA/EN/DRDZSYjjvfnaio.php

1 - If I buy-amp my speakers using the Height terminals at the back of the AVR, what settings do I have to change in my AVR - to use the bi-amping, rather than sending two types of signals to my Fronts?

2 - Does the bi-amping from the AVR have any detrimental effect on the sound?

Thanks!
 

amrutmhatre90

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I had bi amped my front channels on my x3700 few months back before buying a power amplifier. I felt slightly better depth and oomph, bass had slightly more puch. But it depends on what speakers you are driving, I was using Taga Harmony 606v3 fronts which have bi amp terminals.

I simply connected the height 2 channel to high frequency and front channels to low frequency, make sure you remove the jumpers from the speaker which connect the high and low frequency terminals.
In the AVR go to amp assign and select bi amp. But make sure both presets are changed to bi amp if you use them.

Need to be careful while bi amping within the AVR or you might fry something. Check out the manual it explains this properly.
 

chander

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Thanks a ton @amrutmhatre90.

I am using the QA C20s which are bi-amp capable, just needed to know what I am doing is right.
I simply connected the height 2 channel to high frequency and front channels to low frequency, make sure you remove the jumpers from the speaker which connect the high and low frequency terminals.
does this mean - taking front right channel for example -

- I connect the height R from the AVR (both + and -) to both the "+" terminals on the speaker

- the front Right ( both + & -) from the AVR to both the "-' on my speakers

Is this correct?

The manual I have explains the bi-wiring but not the bi-amping so do not want to fry anything :)
 

amrutmhatre90

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No,no positive and negatives should go to positive and negatives only. Check this out hope this helps, download the manual online so you can read if this isn't clear.


Screenshot_20210718-173420_Drive.jpg
 

chander

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Thanks that is what I thought, but your earlier message confused me a bit, so wanted to clarify :) Thank again! Big help!
 

ssf

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2 - Does the bi-amping from the AVR have any detrimental effect on the sound?

Thanks!
I had tried Bi-amping a long time back and don't remember it making a significant difference to the sound. With an AVR, when bi-amping one is still using the same power supply of the AVR which is probably the reason why one does not see a huge difference in sound.

Please look up active and passive bi-amping if time permits.

https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
 
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chander

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I had tried Bi-amping a long time back and don't remember it making a significant difference to the sound. With an AVR, when bi-amping one is still using the same power supply of the AVR which is probably the reason why one does not see a huge difference in sound.

Please look up active and passive bi-amping if time permits.

https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
Hey @ssf thanks for the great link. To get more power is not the aim here this is more from a learning point of view. I have only just recently started fiddling with my AVR so just want to see what all is possible I never knew one could bi-amp using an AVR. So this is new and very exciting, being at home all day for months - one has to keep oneself occupied.

However I understand your point too, now as you put it this way. For the sake of discussion - lets say at peak load a 500W Amp section is only powering 5 speakers (for example) - bi-amping will divide the same load into 7 channels now. So by the maths of it the fronts do gain a little as each can peak at around 140W (70+70 biamped) instead of the 100W earlier. Though the other 3 channels go down to 70W each instead of the 100W earlier.

Is this correct?

**I understand all channels are very rarely at peak load (if ever), so this is just hypothetical.
 

ssf

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Hey @ssf thanks for the great link. To get more power is not the aim here this is more from a learning point of view. I have only just recently started fiddling with my AVR so just want to see what all is possible I never knew one could bi-amp using an AVR. So this is new and very exciting, being at home all day for months - one has to keep oneself occupied.

However I understand your point too, now as you put it this way. For the sake of discussion - lets say at peak load a 500W Amp section is only powering 5 speakers (for example) - bi-amping will divide the same load into 7 channels now. So by the maths of it the fronts do gain a little as each can peak at around 140W (70+70 biamped) instead of the 100W earlier. Though the other 3 channels go down to 70W each instead of the 100W earlier.

Is this correct?

**I understand all channels are very rarely at peak load (if ever), so this is just hypothetical.
There is a good discussion on another forum on this but I don't know if I can post a link here. And also to note, am no expert but just someone who has been using an AVR and trying out stuff for a while.

So this is my view from my experience.

I have a Marantz 7010 which is rated at 120 watts 2 channel driven @ 8 Ohms. This is a 9 channel receiver. Now assuming that all channels are driven (an not all channels are driven at peak load as you have rightly stated) but for the sake of discussion, lets assume it is, it should work out to around 84 odd watts per channel. (Higher end AVR's have a 70% guarantee or so they say) So, if one is using 7 channels and using the other two for by-amping, then yes, one would have 160 watts per channel into the bi-amped front channels.

I tried it out and did not see much of a difference either in quality or quantity. Do let us know if you see an improvement. Going from 80 watts to 160 watts might seem like doubling of power but I have read that it takes 10 times the power to sound twice as loud.

I will leave a AVS Forum discussion link here. Mods can delete it it is not appropriate:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/learn-why-passive-bi-amping-isnt-actually-more-powerful.2770993/
 
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insane79

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Dear FMs,

I stumbled upon this link today after watching a video on Bi-Amping AVRs. I never knew it was possible. Now I have a few questions to give it a try myself.

LINK - https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3700H/NA/EN/DRDZSYjjvfnaio.php

1 - If I buy-amp my speakers using the Height terminals at the back of the AVR, what settings do I have to change in my AVR - to use the bi-amping, rather than sending two types of signals to my Fronts?

2 - Does the bi-amping from the AVR have any detrimental effect on the sound?

Thanks!
It won't make a difference as its still using the avr's power supply, tried it years back with various brand of avrs, it's just a gimmick & nothing like adding external amps to your avr instead, do it & see the result for yourself.
 

ssf

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So, if one is using 7 channels and using the other two for by-amping, then yes, one would have 160 watts per channel into the bi-amped front channels.
This might not be very accurate as the woofer gets 85 watts and the tweeter gets 85 watts so overall one is still restricted to 85 watts at both woofer and tweeter and thus no increase in power. If it was not bi-amped, then each of the 7 channels would now get around 107 watts (in theory) So, bi-amping using the same power supply in an AVR looks like a disadvantage rather than an advantage, at least in theory.

For the sake of discussion and knowledge, other FM's may chip in.
 
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sandeepmohan

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As some have already said, bi amping won't make a day and night difference. This should not be the deciding factor on if an amplifier is good or not. You need to remember that in case of your Denon, its the exact same amplifier module inside that will drive the speakers so how good of a difference it makes is down to the quality of the amplifier.

I had attempted this as a stereo set up when a pair of KEF iQ9. However; I used two external Audio Source Model AMP One power amplifiers of the exact same model so as to not over load one or the other. Fortunately they had their own individual left and right gain control. This fed into a Proton Pre amplifier. Once again, these results were okay. The set up was far too complex, old (age of equipment) and unnecessary to have offered any significant benefit.
 

MaSh

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Go ahead and try it out. It's not the same as adding a power amp, however it's better than running a speaker with a single amp.

Disconnect the speaker cables from receiver and speaker, remove the jumpers from speaker terminal. Then switch on receiver and change the amp mode to assigned or whatever it's called as per the manual and also any other setting wrt to crossover, etc. Switch off receiver and do the speaker wiring. Check the cables twice and then switch on receiver.

Do let us know your impressions.

You need to remember that in case of your Denon, its the exact same amplifier module inside that will drive the speakers so how good of a difference it makes is down to the quality of the amplifier.
Could you explain what you mean by same amplifier module? How does it provide discreet amplifier channels?

MaSh
 
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sandeepmohan

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Could you explain what you mean by same amplifier module? How does it provide discreet amplifier channels?
It does not. Its the same amplifier module (internally) driving the speaker that is otherwise used even when you drive them normally, that is, when you are not bi amping them. The quality of power is not going to improve by bi amping speakers using an AV receiver. You are only splitting the signal paths to the speaker.
 
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