Building a cheap HTPC.

Doors,

One question regarding the iBall baby. Do you have enough space to plugin a TV tuner card like the Hauppauge PVR-150 in this tiny cabinet?
 
1. What is a HTPC (i know it is an acronym for home theatre PC), but wanted to know what is needed for a pc to be called a htpc.
i have a factory built DELL XPS420. it has vista home premium with the windows media center, intel quad core processors, 4GB ram, 500gb hard disk, pinnacle tv tuner card, ATI Radeon 2600 graphics card. Does this constitute a HTPC?
No hard definition - any PC that is dedicated for the use of a home-theater is a HTPC. So yes, your PC can be called a HTPC if you put it to that use.

But, if you ask the purists, they will say that a HTPC is one that is designed ground up for the sole purpose of serving as a HT media source. Usually this means a AVR like cabinet with a display panel, ultra quite cooling system, fan-less power supply, high-quality Audio & Video components, TV-Tuners with PVR software etc etc. Anyway, these are are not easily available here in India or are too expensive to justify, so I will take what I can get and will call it my HTPC ;)

My graphics card has 2 dvi outputs, but the manufacturer says that i can output to hdmi video + audio. I have not yet tried it as i could nt get a dvi to hdmi cable, but i thought dvi was hdmi minus audio. please can you enlighten me on this?
Currently I use my Workstation PC for HT also. And I do it with a DVI to HDMI cable and cheap 5.1 surround system that is driven directly by the PC (no receiver in between). So yes, get a DVI to HDMI cable and you will get pure digital input to your TV.

You are right, DVI is essentially HDMI minus the audio, but one difference is that HDMI is HDCP (copyright protection mechanism) aware, while DVI is just a dumb terminal. In some situations, I think DVI is better than HDMI if you can get the audio separately as a pure digital feed through a SPDIF connector.

2. I use the windows media center to watch my movies over dvd. Is there a better movie player?
I would recommend PowerDVD. It is EXCELLENT!!

3. What are the high def formats? and which one is the best (this question is assuming that i have a choice of formats to download and i want the highest PQ/AQ)
Well, HD-DVD is defunct and the near future seems to be with Blue-Ray. So that is the only choice with respect to HD discs.

But, on a PC you can have several formats. My favorite is a H264 (a.k.a x264 and AVC) encoded HD file in a Matroska container (.mkv file). I play it in Media Player Classic (mpc) with CoreAVC for decoding. Of course, I think VLC Player is also equally good.

Other formats are DivxHD, WMV-HD, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 etc. Basically anything that can encode at HD resolutions (720p & 1080p).
 
Doors,

One question regarding the iBall baby. Do you have enough space to plugin a TV tuner card like the Hauppauge PVR-150 in this tiny cabinet?

Hi Phantom,

I am not sure, dont know the size of the card. Internally, there is not too much of space though, it is a small cabinet. I still havent added any additional cards. Once I add, will let you know what fits and what does not.
 
Thanks a lot Teja.
Just one question: Is it , if at all, possible in any way to transmit audio + video over DVI or do we necessarily need hdmi to hdmi only?

Moderator: Please can you create a new forum for FAQ's which are generic in nature like the one which i just posted.
It will greatly save time for users from browsing reams of posts.
The forum should usually contain posts, which are generic single questions and have a yes/no type short answer and a more elaborate long answer.
it is better to not club multiple questions within a post unless they are all related.
Regards
Murali
 
Audio is not possible with DVI.

And in case your graphic card outputs HDMI, it also needs support for audio input from motherboard, so that same can be sent out through HDMI.

Regarding media player, you can try KMPlayer. It plays most formats. But you need to install Matroska Splitter, AC3filter and CoreAVC codecs for playback of HD in MKV containers.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanx for all your inputs and help. My HTPC is finally setup, connected to my HT. Took a bit of time, also made both my PCs dysfunctional for some time. I will also mention some of the problems that I faced while the setup so others dont make the same. I made this machine from grounds up. Bought parts, assembled them myself, installed software etc.

I removed RAM from my desktop after hibernating it, when I started it back, it could not load the 3 gb memory file into 1 gb memory, and windows wont start, had to put the xp cd back (in recovery mode) to delete the file. Then it started fine. Dumb me..

If you are planning to use the iball baby 306 and assembling yourself, its a lot easier to remove the metal plates inside and then fit the parts. and put the plates back on rather than fitting the componets with the plates. I recommend letting an assembler do all that, unless you know what you are doing. I did it because this was something I had never done and wanted the experience.

Debugging tip - once I made all the connections, the things wont startup. Disconnect all the connections from mobo, start connecting one by one. e.g. connect the fans, start the machine, see the fans moving, shut off the machine, goto the next connections.

wasted 36 hours because the stupid guy from whom I bought the hdd failed to give me the sata data cable.

Wasted a lot of time initially by installing base windows xp (since I had the cd), then searching for sp2 or 3 etc. Save a lot of time, just download the xp + sp3, it comes with a lot of security fixes and other patches etc.

When I installed base xp, it will only recognize my hdd as 130 GB, only after installing service pack this issue goes away.

Even if you are planning to use it just for HTPC and not for browsing etc, make sure you do not forget to install the security suite like firewall, virus scanner, ad blocker etc. you never know..

I am still connected to the tv using the vga cable. The mobo has dvi-d output, I also bought an adaptor for DVI to HDMI and hdmi cable (so that even if I move away from dvi, can still use the hdmi cable). I accidently ended up getting a DVD-I adaptor, which has a different pin layout. The DVI-I adaptor wont fit into DVI-D cause DVI-I has extra pins. Will goto SP road today and get it changed. Damn!!

The piucture quality is decent, sound is just passable, using rca cables from my onboard sound card.

After using the htpc for a few days, the order of my upgrades has changed. WAF has a part to play in this too (is there anywhere where this is not a factor!!!)

wireless keyboard and mouse, she hates the long usb wires I am currently using for this.

wireless adaptor, to transfer data from my pc to the htpc. Its a pain transferring data using a 2 gb pen drive or burn dvds for this. Initially I thought of just getting a bigger pen drive like 8gb, found out, its probably cheaper to get a wireless card for htpc. I can use a friends wireless router for sometime till I get another one myself.

wireless router.

tv tuner card
video card


The motherboard has spdif out, where the hell can I buy an SPDIF bracket. searched on SP road, on the web, couldnt find it anywhere. This is most important right now, please help.

Thanx Guys.
 
Hi Guys,

Finally I was able to get DVI-D to HDMI adaptor, pretty difficult to find, had to go through quite a few shops before found one. Most of the people carry DVI-I to HDMI (if et al they carry). One guy had one which came out of a zotac mobo, which was not used by his customer, so got it for 150/-.

Well, I replaced my VGA cable with this adaptor and HDMI cable and there was quite a significant, visible improvement in the picture quality. I was not expecting this kind of improvements in picture quality. The htpc could also recognize the tv as a panny and I was able to specify the resolution of 720p (earlier I had to specify like 1024x768 etc).

Still have the problem of using analog audio from the motherboard sound card. Sounds like shit really. Can some one help me with information regarding SPDIF brackets like where to buy, how much it costs etc. Since I plan to use spdif only, no point investing in a sound card when my mobo has spdif out.

Thanx Guys.
 
Doors which video card did u buy for ur HTPC and how much did u pay for the same

I did not buy a video card. I instead bought a motherboard which has a dvi output. It has a nvidia 7025/630a or something like that on board video card, which I am using right now. I have played 720p movies and no issues so far. Will try 1080p also, but my tv does not support it, so not much of a use for me. This way I saved a bundle of cash on video card.

I also tried some of the games like alien arena, prince of persia warrior within etc. None of these are latest and greatest games, so dont know too much about how the newer games perform.

Though some day I might go for a video card. probably nvidia 8600gt, but i wont pay more than 3000 bucks for a video card. I am not sure what are the gains you get by upgrading the video card. My understanding is that if you want to play 1080p h264 blue ray disks, you need hardware support also, a good video card.
 
Doors,

Please look at my post in another thread about the benefits of a dedicated sound card - http://www.hifivision.com/cd-players/2745-cd-player-ext-da-converter-5.html#post25466

And I am not sure what you are asking about SPDIF brackets. If the motherboard had an SPDIF out, then you should be able to take that out straight away. What seems to be the problem here?

I am not planning to buy a sound card or dac at the moment. My mobo has spdif output, which I want to connect to the AVR. The dac in the AVR will be used for the conversion. I am assuming here that the digital output of the cheap mobo sound card will be identical to a super expensive sound card's digital output.

The mobo has spdif output on the board, not at the back panel of the computer, the output is bscially 4 pins on the mobo, to which I cannot connect the optical or coaxial cable. An spdif bracket fits as like a card at the back panel. Its connected to the mobo spdif output by just a small connector cable. The bracket has a very simple circuit and optical and coaxial outputs. Without this, the digital sound cant be taken out of the mobo. Its supposed to be a very cheap item, probably costing about 5-10 USD.
 
doors,

About the digital outut being the same in onboard sound solution as in an expensive sound card, yes, they are probably the same. Except for the fact that an expensive sound card is going to support more of the Dolby/DTS stuff than the onboard solution through the digital out connection.

However I still am not able to understand how, when you have an SPDIF out on your mobo, you are not able to see it on the back of the case! Seems to me that this is probably a case related problem. After all you should not have to buy a separate bracket when you already have that facility in the motherboard. What case are you using?

But going by what you describe, yes, you are going to need that separate bracket. I dont know if that is sold separately though. If you were in Chennai, I would suggest going through Ritchie Street and look for that bracket. I am sure a similar hardware vendors' area is available in the city you live in. Your best bet is to explore such shops and see if you can get such a bracket. Even an old, discarded one from another sound card should fit your use.
 
Doors66, try this circuit. Before connecting, check the pin voltages using a multimeter. Coaxial Inner Pin : S/PDIF out and Outer Pin : Gnd
 
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For all the people who are using HTPC's here are missing the basic idea behind HTPC. An HTPC is Silent/Low Profile / Beautifull Looking living room PC.

Please suggest/choose components which produce very low noise. Things like using > 80% efficient psu , 2.5" Hard Drives or even SSD's, passive cooloers for Components go a long way in separating an HTPC from a PC.

Additionally, use specialized cases which are meant to merge in with your equipment, No they are not as costly as one thinks.

Besides that use an interface which can give you 8-10 feet experience without using a KB or Mouse.

Lets not make this a general PC configuration thread.
 
Suhail - well I would not be too sure that everybody here is missing the idea of a HTPC:). I have an Antec case NSK4480 with 350 watts of 80+ rated power supply. Its absolutely quiet. Twice I have even inadvertently unplugged the system thinking it was already off!

I tried getting a bed type case such as the NSK 2480 but that was not available in Chennai when I set the system up. Anyway this is working well for me - the vertical form factor means that less space is occupied.

Last but not least, the key is to use remote input devices (Keyboard, mouse) so that you get that Home theatre experience and not a computer terminal one:)
 
Hi,
few Q abt HTPC-

1.Is true HTPC case available in India,Mumbai?
2.Do we have to connect one of the display out of GC to that of HTPC cabinate?
http://www.quietpc.com/nz/images/vfdmod.jpg
3.In that case cant we use monitor & TV ?
4.Can we use HTPC case on XP?

:)

1. yes try prime in lamington road - they have htpc cabinets ranging from 5.5k to 35k and rates are as per US rates on Rs 50 exchange rate
2. no graphics card man - usually with most display units - they connect straight to an internal USB pin or external USB slot. And there is a SW supplied that controls the display unit and offers soem flexibility and customization. At the same time some high end HTPC cases do display the windows screen on a touchscreen provided on the cabimet - they cost a bomb like say 40-50k as exchange rates.
3. Yes HTPC case works on XP and has got drivers written for that and some softwares like winamp/windows media player. Actually most HTPC cases with remote and display come with their own basic media center front end that works well with the included display. Though XP and XP media center are separate - the cases work fine with XP and a SW supplied controls the display.

Hope you are having fun with the planning - you will have a lot of fun and pain and frustration and joy when you set it up, fiddle with the setup problems, driver and OS problems and then ultimately seeing HW/SW rendered and deinterlaced 1080/720p display on you plasma/LCD/projector with multichannel 7.1 LPCM shows on your receiver.

Added to it the long list of movies.

BTW dude - drop the remote and case for now - get a normal case with silent fans and space for 1-4 HDDs for later. Do install media portal or XBMC (highly recommended) if you use XP like me - no need of vista media center and problems with HW/SW drivers there. XP is fine and you can control everything with a small wireless kybd - passes digital audio through HDMI with my board for LPCM 7.1 as well as Dolby 5.1 amongst others.

And belive me XBMC downloads all movie data, posters, ratings, info, directly automatically from imdb and other sites and when you scroll though your media library you will have a lot of fun.
 
After spending the last one month testing different softwares and drivers for my HTPC I finally was satisfied with the entire setup last night. Everything is working properly as expected - its not a NMT that will (most don't) function out of the box so takes patience and the right mix of drivers.

My HTPC does pass

* 5.1 Dolby Digital and 2.0 channel through optical spdif using Realtek drivers
* HDMI is connectd to my Panasonic Plasma directly for conveniences sake and passes stereo sound that my TV can play (using NVIDIA HDMI Audio drivers 1.00.00.6)
* HDMI passes 720p (my TV is only HD ready) but can do full 1080p
* No stutter during 720p/1080p rips with deinterlacing etc turned on
* XBMC workign fully (ocassional crashes while playing music only can be attributed to SW
* No crashes in OS (except the computer not shutting down fully - i.e. display shuts down but proccy fans stay on - only problem i am yet to fix and is intermittent)
* Can't comment on 24p display as TV is capable but dont know how to setup XBMC for that yet


Specs of my HTPC are as follows:

* Asus M3N78EM (bios 0603 - no overvolting problems)
* AMD 7750 BE
* OS - windows XP sp3 Professional Edition (felt was better with drivers, sound etc)
* 4 GB Kingston 800 RAM
* 1 TB Seagate HDD
* LG Optical Drive (DVD RW)
* Cheap HTPC case iball 306 (will be changed later)

Steps for setup:

1. Fresh intsall of windows
2. In chipset section for bios use realtek for IE+ Ext drivers, spdif for output and HD aduio for front panel (necessary for my setup)
3. Mobo Drivers for chipset and Display (please note - use new chipset drivers 15.26 after mobo drivers install from CD - do not upgrade to 185.85 display drivers for Ge Force - you will have HDMI handshake problems with input switching - with 15.26 no handshake problems - just press F1 after source input switching on TV/AVR and you will get the display
4. In Realtek section of soundmax - in digital out section keep output at 96 KHZ
5. Install NVIDIA HDMI audio driver 1.00.00.6 (cant remember the exact number so please check but last number was 6) - for 2 channel stereo sound via HDMI which a TV can play (somehow windows mixer panel can control output via HDMI which it should not so i guess its passing analog). Display will play fine even without the driver. It is important to note - in case you want 5.1 Dolby or 7.1 LPCM thorugh a receiver please use 1.00.00.23/1.00.00.17 Nvidia HDMI drivers - in my case TV cannot play any output with these drivers but AVR plays fine and its all digital output and you cannot adjust levels of the output as it should be. Also note if you are using optical spdif connecion of realtek to the receiver (and HDMI for TV) - remmeber to use realtek as the device in the mixer panel but deselct "default devices only". So theoritically you can use XBMC to play digital 5.1 and below via optical through receiver and use winamp or foobar to play the quick song selecetion using nvidia HDMI device in their output section - since you did not check default device only in windows - they will not revert back once changed to HDMI output in their output section
6. All updates with sp3 and .net frameworks
7. Comodo Free Internet Security (keep costs down and is good for average user)
8. XBMC 9.04 with media stream (through audio section pass everythign down if you have a receiver that is capable) - XBMC has competition from mediaportal etc but ton sheer playability and looks I prefer XBMC more - media portal was slooooow on my system and seemed to drag while XBMC took 5 seconds or less to boot up and be functional in windows.
9. Install KLMega codec with MPC-Home Cinema
10. Use DVD Fab Platinum for ripping DVDs - on my setup it takes aroudn 30-40 mins for a 2 hour movie

Any other question do let me know - if someone is facing the shutdown problems and has a solution please do let me know - the problem is intermittent so dont know - i think its more of a OS/SW problem and initially after loading windows the problem is not there.
 
I installed XBMC after you suggested,but in aud section it doent support 5.1aud(only all ch stereo)I selected realtek opt but 5.1 cable is under repair.:eek:hyeah:lets see?
 
I installed XBMC after you suggested,but in aud section it doent support 5.1aud(only all ch stereo)I selected realtek opt but 5.1 cable is under repair.:eek:hyeah:lets see?

2 things.....

hope you have used 96 hz in optical out in spdif (check with playing with MPC-HC ffdshow enabled as filter in audio and let ac3, dts passthrough). If 5.1 is passing through then sw setup is fine.

in the audio hw section od XBMC there is an option of digital receiver and pass through for ac3 dts and also disable stereo output for all speakers. It works fine man, Just try again. (let XBMC downoad all fanrt images for movies, music etc and see you collection shine with stories, images, movie info, ratings etc).

PS: I did not get the 5.1 cable repair part. Anything decent band bridge is fine.
 
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