Buying Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC /Preamplifier opinions please..

[drkrack]

As a part of stepwise upgrade into pre and power setup I'm in the process of zeroing on the DC - 1, it meets most of my requirements of DAC +Preamplifier combo, with a functional Remote. I will plan to add a monoblock in year's Time to this setup. Currently my Integra 8470 CD direct option will be used as amplifier to drive Polk RTI speakers. I mostly change my speakers on regular basis (2-3 yrs) so that shouldn't be a hard consideration in decision making.

With a budget of around 50k I'm looking for a decent preamp, preferably with a good DAC on board. Remote function is vital as my amp or Bluray /Pioneer DVD player - DAC (Smsl M8) combo doesn't have a remote with volume control options (why do they don't have volume control on Bluray players remotes ?). Most of my sources in flac and Cds, or streaming content Apple music (Handled by Raspberry pi 3 +hifi berry combo) etc. My music choice is mainly Indian classical, Bollywood, Kannada /Telugu /Marathi /Malayalam movie music (old and new), AR Rahman (his music deserves a separate genre in itself), R&B, Soft Rock, Trance etc.

I am open to consider tube preamp in the budget or integrated hybrids with preout options but none of them had all satisfactory options as required by me. So any other suggestions on tube preamp/ hybrid are welcome. I'm open to buying pre-owned gear too as my budget is quite modest for a hifi Preamplifier.

1. Any better options over DC - 1? New or pre-owned?
2. Tube /hybrid Preamplifiers ?
3. Any current users of DC - 1 and their experiences? I have researched shortcomings of DC 1 none appears to be very problematic like 192khz limits and no dsd support..

Any further information will be very valuable. I will be getting it from USA, need to order in a weeks time.

 

[music4mhell]

As a part of stepwise upgrade into pre and power setup I'm in the process of zeroing on the DC - 1, it meets most of my requirements of DAC +Preamplifier combo, with a functional Remote. I will plan to add a monoblock in year's Time to this setup. Currently my Integra 8470 CD direct option will be used as amplifier to drive Polk RTI speakers. I mostly change my speakers on regular basis (2-3 yrs) so that shouldn't be a hard consideration in decision making.

With a budget of around 50k I'm looking for a decent preamp, preferably with a good DAC on board. Remote function is vital as my amp or Bluray /Pioneer DVD player - DAC (Smsl M8) combo doesn't have a remote with volume control options (why do they don't have volume control on Bluray players remotes ?). Most of my sources in flac and Cds, or streaming content Apple music (Handled by Raspberry pi 3 +hifi berry combo) etc. My music choice is mainly Indian classical, Bollywood, Kannada /Telugu /Marathi /Malayalam movie music (old and new), AR Rahman (his music deserves a separate genre in itself), R&B, Soft Rock, Trance etc.

I am open to consider tube preamp in the budget or integrated hybrids with preout options but none of them had all satisfactory options as required by me. So any other suggestions on tube preamp/ hybrid are welcome. I'm open to buying pre-owned gear too as my budget is quite modest for a hifi Preamplifier.

1. Any better options over DC - 1? New or pre-owned?
2. Tube /hybrid Preamplifiers ?
3. Any current users of DC - 1 and their experiences? I have researched shortcomings of DC 1 none appears to be very problematic like 192khz limits and no dsd support..

Any further information will be very valuable. I will be getting it from USA, need to order in a weeks time.

At the same price range you can go for Bifrost Multibit.
Any reason, why you are not considering as you are getting from USA.

 

[gururanga]

I had Emotiva Stealth DC-1 with me for one week and Bifrost (non-Multibit) was DAC, I used to own at that time.

DC-1 has very good preamp and remote, vol has lot of play and very good to use, directly with poweramps.

Sound-wise,

resolution and sound stage was more are less same between them.
Bifrost had more details (little bit) but more bright compared to DC-1
DC-1 was very smooth compared to Bifrost

For me DC-1 won with more features, compared to Bifrost. But when compared with PS Audio PWD2 which i finally end with, both DC-1 and Bifrost did not scale even halfway mark.

This thread will help on other alternatives

Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

 

[shibashis]

I am using the Emotiva as you plan to, as a DAC+preamp. For me it is a lot of DAC for the money. Lots of detail retrieval, improvement in pace and rhythm, I have tried couple of other DACs but in the same price range Emotiva wins easily for me. That is not to say better products can not be had, surely there are much better ones out there probably for more money.
Having said that there is a lot of talk on R2R DACs at the moment and how they are better than delta-sigma ones, I have not heard any r2r models so can not comment.

While the Emotiva offers very nice volume control and has multiple inputs working perfectly as a preamp you may consider a buffer between your DAC and amp in future. The pre section of Emotiva does not pair ideally with my power amp, so I am using a K-buffer in between, this for me has improved sound quality with better imaging and bass response. That is not to say it will be the same for you, may very well be that your power amp will match just fine with Emotiva.

In my opinion in this budget it is almost impossible to go wrong with the DC-1.

 

[drkrack]

At the same price range you can go for Bifrost Multibit.
Any reason, why you are not considering as you are getting from USA.

I did listen to the bifrost non multibit version, but wasn't greatly impressed. I'm bit skeptical (read lack of experience) about connecting a DAC directly to the power amp too. Not having a remote is another drawback. Any experience with incremental SQ with multibit versions of bifrost & Results from connecting DAC directly to the power amp will be valuable. My research conclusion has been - that it is mostly all or none phenomenon with combination of certain DAC to certain power amp. Either it works superbly or it works horribly bad, so DAC +preamp would be a better choice. I might end up buying multibit Modi or bifrost too but not considering it currently. Any other worthy DAC under 50k I should not be missing?

I had Emotiva Stealth DC-1 with me for one week and Bifrost (non-Multibit) was DAC, I used to own at that time.

DC-1 has very good preamp and remote, vol has lot of play and very good to use, directly with poweramps.

Sound-wise,

resolution and sound stage was more are less same between them.
Bifrost had more details (little bit) but more bright compared to DC-1
DC-1 was very smooth compared to Bifrost

For me DC-1 won with more features, compared to Bifrost. But when compared with PS Audio PWD2 which i finally end with, both DC-1 and Bifrost did not scale even halfway mark.

This thread will help on other alternatives

Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

Very good inputs there, also thanks for the link. I'll go through carefully and get back. The other DAC option from perfect wave is much above my budget I believe. Any other options in SS/ the tube preamp /hybrid with preout offerings?
I'd take your reply as +1 in favour of DC 1 for the time being,
Or save some more buy later, buy better is what you're suggesting I think.

I am using the Emotiva as you plan to, as a DAC+preamp. For me it is a lot of DAC for the money. Lots of detail retrieval, improvement in pace and rhythm, I have tried couple of other DACs but in the same price range Emotiva wins easily for me. That is not to say better products can not be had, surely there are much better ones out there probably for more money.
Having said that there is a lot of talk on R2R DACs at the moment and how they are better than delta-sigma ones, I have not heard any r2r models so can not comment.

While the Emotiva offers very nice volume control and has multiple inputs working perfectly as a preamp you may consider a buffer between your DAC and amp in future. The pre section of Emotiva does not pair ideally with my power amp, so I am using a K-buffer in between, this for me has improved sound quality with better imaging and bass response. That is not to say it will be the same for you, may very well be that your power amp will match just fine with Emotiva.

In my opinion in this budget it is almost impossible to go wrong with the DC-1.

Precisely this is the kind of user reviews found uniformly across the Internet for DC 1. Its usefulness seriously scores heavily over its drawbacks. Your honest opinion about its usefulness is very valuable and fact that it can be accommodated later (in any type of future upgraded setup) is very encouraging.
I'm considering Xpa Gen3, or a monoblock as the future upgrade so it should not be a problem. A good preamp with a good remote control and multiple digital input options, a decent DAC all in 50k makes it a good value proposition.

 

[gururanga]

At that price range, it would be worth checking Yulong DA8, Audio-gd NFB-28

IMO both has better USB implementation when directly compared to DC-1

 

[shibashis]

Should not connect the DAC directly to the power amp unless it has preamp feature, i.e. volume control. This is most definitely not recommended, you run the risk of blowing your speakers as there is nothing to check the power amp's output.

DAC+Pre -> Power -> Speaker
DAC+Pre -> Buffer -> Power -> Speaker
DAC -> Pre -> Power -> Speaker

 

[manniraj]

Should not connect the DAC directly to the power amp unless it has preamp feature, i.e. volume control. This is most definitely not recommended, you run the risk of blowing your speakers as there is nothing to check the power amp's output.

DAC+Pre -> Power -> Speaker
DAC+Pre -> Buffer -> Power -> Speaker
DAC -> Pre -> Power -> Speaker

I think not necessary to always have the preamp unless you require gain or may be more sources if the DAC is being used with the USB input from a PC. You can control the volume on the PC albeit its digital.

 

[drkrack]

At that price range, it would be worth checking Yulong DA8, Audio-gd NFB-28

IMO both has better USB implementation when directly compared to DC-1

I already have a decent implementation of Ess chip in the form of Smsl M8, after adding a LPSU I am very much happy with it. I did consider Audio GD and Oppo HA1 in the process of deciding. Yulong is over the budget again same Ess chip and no remote. Even if you leave the DAC part, any good preamp in this price range?

Should not connect the DAC directly to the power amp unless it has preamp feature, i.e. volume control. This is most definitely not recommended, you run the risk of blowing your speakers as there is nothing to check the power amp's output.

DAC+Pre -> Power -> Speaker
DAC+Pre -> Buffer -> Power -> Speaker
DAC -> Pre -> Power -> Speaker

I am aware of the issues of connecting DAC to poweramp directly, only DACs mentioned about incorporated pre-amp can be directly connected to a poweramp I believe.
Can a Schiit bifrost be connected directly to poweramp? if that is the case it makes reconsidering Bifrost a better option.
What's the poweramp you're using with Dc1?
One more concern is Dc1 appears to be dated as far as its age is concerned ; Emotiva may come up with DC2 this year to maintain the cutting edge. Of course it'd cost a bit more than Dc1.
I'm not getting DC1 for less than 499$ anywhere, any better deals on Dc1?

I think not necessary to always have the preamp unless you require gain or may be more sources if the DAC is being used with the USB input from a PC. You can control the volume on the PC albeit its digital.

My source is Rpi 3 music server, pioneer cd player, android TV box etc ; I'd prefer a dedicated remote with volume control than fiddling with PC or Smartphone every time I just want to control volume.

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk

 

[drkrack]

Update : there's problems with Emotiva site not accepting orders for DC1, any other sites that you can get it from? They've (Emotiva) stopped taking orders recently - mostly means a newer model might be in the horizon, sooner than expected.

This newer Tube preamp from schiit seems a good option though ; it has a remote too...

http://schiit.com/products/saga

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk

 

[shibashis]

I think not necessary to always have the preamp unless you require gain or may be more sources if the DAC is being used with the USB input from a PC. You can control the volume on the PC albeit its digital.

The volume control on the PC is digital, correct me if I am wrong but is not digital volume control going to result in loss of resolution?

 

[shibashis]

I am aware of the issues of connecting DAC to poweramp directly, only DACs mentioned about incorporated pre-amp can be directly connected to a poweramp I believe.

What's the poweramp you're using with Dc1?
One more concern is Dc1 appears to be dated as far as its age is concerned ; Emotiva may come up with DC2 this year to maintain the cutting edge. Of course it'd cost a bit more than Dc1.
I'm not getting DC1 for less than 499$ anywhere, any better deals on Dc1?


My source is Rpi 3 music server, pioneer cd player, android TV box etc ; I'd prefer a dedicated remote with volume control than fiddling with PC or Smartphone every time I just want to control volume.

Sent from my Lenovo TAB S8-50F using Tapatalk

You are right in going for a dedicated remote, it is infinitely more convenient when in use.

I am using Adcom GFA 545 MkII with the Emotiva, powerful and really good amp.
There is an argument that you should wait for DC-2, possibly will be better than DC-1 but mind you not necessarily. The DC-1 still will remain tremendous value, maybe with the release of the next version price may go down as well. With the DC-1 you are missing out on DSD but are you ready to jump on that train and are you convinced you must have it?
With a reduced price DC-1 will represent even more value.

 

[manniraj]

The volume control on the PC is digital, correct me if I am wrong but is not digital volume control going to result in loss of resolution?

Yes that is why i quoted that the volume control on the PC is digital. Regarding the loss in resolution I am not sure that its going to effect as I have not felt like something has changed if I use my smartphone to control the Foobar2000 volume on my dedicated music PC.

 

[drkrack]

You are right in going for a dedicated remote, it is infinitely more convenient when in use.

I am using Adcom GFA 545 MkII with the Emotiva, powerful and really good amp.
There is an argument that you should wait for DC-2, possibly will be better than DC-1 but mind you not necessarily. The DC-1 still will remain tremendous value, maybe with the release of the next version price may go down as well. With the DC-1 you are missing out on DSD but are you ready to jump on that train and are you convinced you must have it?
With a reduced price DC-1 will represent even more value.

Yeah that is a conclusion I've reached, I got a quote of Rs 48k from Indian distributor for DC1, it hasn't been stopped but probably a glitch on the website I believe. There's no plans for releasing DC 2 till last quarter of the year which he isn't sure (he is not sure of DC2 is in the horizon even) as far as the Indian counterpart says.
Currently my other DAC handles DSD if required but I am not using DSD anyway, it shouldn't be a deciding factor.
If getting from USA does not work out I'll consider buying from here.
Thanks for the inputs.

 

[elt93]

Marantz HD DAC1?

I've heard neither but this is an alternative you could check out. Seems to have the features you're looking out for.

 

[drkrack]

Marantz HD DAC1?

I've heard neither but this is an alternative you could check out. Seems to have the features you're looking out for.

I've checked that, I'm not impressed with the DAC in Marantz series of devices, they seem to be just OK. Plus its 120v only version I'll be getting to buy in USA.
Emotiva Dc1 is compatible with Indian voltages.

There's two newly released tube pre amps from schiit - Saga (350 usd) & it's higher version Freya (700 usd).
Any experiences with other forum members?

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[JayaRaa]

my advise will be to also look at oppo sonica dac. since you are planning us purchase, will be around your budget as once it arrives here price will be higher

 

[Aanuj]

Get a high quality CD player instead of a low quality CD player or and a DAC separately. Don't waste your money on DACs unless you buy something like a Yggdrasil or a Burmester or a dCS. A low quality DAC and a low quality CD player will not get you anywhere. Not even half the distance you are seeking for your audio Nirvana. A two box solution will have two clocks on both end which will be out of sync and create jitter.

Secondly don't try and put all your eggs in one basket. Decide what you want. If you want a good Pre Power set up you will need a very good Pre amp. It's the pre amp that will set the sound signature of your system. In this pre power game the Pre amplifier is the most important piece of kit you will not wanna skimp on. My advise is a good Tube pre amplifier within your budget from Lyrita Audio. Get a Marantz 6005 CD player and a power amp of your choice depending on the kind of speaker you want to buy.

My advise is to get over this sudden DAC fever all are having these days. Get a High Quality amplification that will go a long way. Look for pre owned Cary Audio or Conrad Johnson or Rouge Audio, Cayin Audio , Prima Luna pre amps. They all can be bought within $1000 , but you'll have to keep an eye on it. Once you lay your hands on these serious piece of kit you are in the game for a formidable pre power set up.

 

[music4mhell]

Get a high quality CD player instead of a low quality CD player or and a DAC separately. Don't waste your money on DACs unless you buy something like a Yggdrasil or a Burmester or a dCS. A low quality DAC and a low quality CD player will not get you anywhere. Not even half the distance you are seeking for your audio Nirvana. A two box solution will have two clocks on both end which will be out of sync and create jitter.

Secondly don't try and put all your eggs in one basket. Decide what you want. If you want a good Pre Power set up you will need a very good Pre amp. It's the pre amp that will set the sound signature of your system. In this pre power game the Pre amplifier is the most important piece of kit you will not wanna skimp on. My advise is a good Tube pre amplifier within your budget from Lyrita Audio. Get a Marantz 6005 CD player and a power amp of your choice depending on the kind of speaker you want to buy.

My advise is to get over this sudden DAC fever all are having these days. Get a High Quality amplification that will go a long way. Look for pre owned Cary Audio or Conrad Johnson or Rouge Audio, Cayin Audio , Prima Luna pre amps. They all can be bought within $1000 , but you'll have to keep an eye on it. Once you lay your hands on these serious piece of kit you are in the game for a formidable pre power set up.

You forgot Chord Dave :indifferent14:

 

[drkrack]

my advise will be to also look at oppo sonica dac. since you are planning us purchase, will be around your budget as once it arrives here price will be higher

Yes I will look into those options as well, a preamp is more immediate requirement (as part of stepwise upgrade to a pre power setup) as I'm ok with the current DAC. Oppo I'll be mostly buying a BD 203, but I don't think even it's remote has volume control options..

Get a high quality CD player instead of a low quality CD player or and a DAC separately. Don't waste your money on DACs unless you buy something like a Yggdrasil or a Burmester or a dCS. A low quality DAC and a low quality CD player will not get you anywhere. Not even half the distance you are seeking for your audio Nirvana. A two box solution will have two clocks on both end which will be out of sync and create jitter.

Secondly don't try and put all your eggs in one basket. Decide what you want. If you want a good Pre Power set up you will need a very good Pre amp. It's the pre amp that will set the sound signature of your system. In this pre power game the Pre amplifier is the most important piece of kit you will not wanna skimp on. My advise is a good Tube pre amplifier within your budget from Lyrita Audio. Get a Marantz 6005 CD player and a power amp of your choice depending on the kind of speaker you want to buy.

My advise is to get over this sudden DAC fever all are having these days. Get a High Quality amplification that will go a long way. Look for pre owned Cary Audio or Conrad Johnson or Rouge Audio, Cayin Audio , Prima Luna pre amps. They all can be bought within $1000 , but you'll have to keep an eye on it. Once you lay your hands on these serious piece of kit you are in the game for a formidable pre power set up.

Unfortunately the thread got derailed into DAC choices but its a decent preamp, preferably with a remote is what I'm looking for. I'll add a decent power amp in the coming months to this setup.

Since this is my first foray to tubes I don't have any clue from where to begin. I have seen many Chinese and other tube preamps but wasn't able to decide. I was considering DC1 as it ticked most of my requirements and adding a suitable power amp to DC-1 would be very easy. Since I'm getting it from USA I wasn't considering the Lyrita etc. Let me know any other tube preamps to get from USA which are compatible with Indian voltages. The Yaqin, Monoprice Gemtune preamp offerings are pretty confusing with highly variable reviews.

I'm using a bluray /low end CD player with dedicated DAC which is working reasonably good in my opinion. Somehow spending 30k on CD player hasn't appealed to me. I found my setup to be better than CD 5005 which is again a low end CD player. I'll mostly upgrade to Oppo bd 203 which I assume will be better for Acd playback as well. There's a another option of Emotiva Erc 3 cd player with EBU output to connect to DC 1, which will connect via balanced output to Xpa Gen 3 which I intend to add as power amp later to the setup. I understand the criticality of a good preamp in this proposed setup and that's why I'm looking for other options over DC-1.
I'll look into Lyrita options and any other preamp that you would like to suggest? Acoustic Portrait has any offerings in this price bracket?