Buying Expensive CD Players -Are we getting Cheated

[anm]

point is - are people selling off cdp from 10+ years back at rip off price to audiofoools like me?

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

its very simple ..........trust your ears ..........is there a difference in the sound quality when u play a Sony,philips , samsung CDP and then a Marantz , Nad , Denon ,etc ..........if yes then the price is worth paying for ...........

I have owned a Samsung , Philips DVD player and a Panasonic Discman ...........and now a Marantz CD6003 ............there is a noticeable difference in the sound quality apart from the features ..........

 

[anm]

is any price worth for that difference, or would you limit yourself at some price point?

..if yes then the price is worth paying for .....

 

[square_wave]

Personally for me, I care about how much better the $500 player is over say a $289 player is and decide if the premium is worth it (assuming my budget is in that range). I don't care if the company did ground up research and developed a product or uses OEM parts to provide the VFM.
I think Lexicon's case is an egregious one but re-labeling one product under a different name is not a new practice.
What is strange is calling Oppo as VFM while criticizing more expensive as rip-off. Wonder how many who buy brand name BD players available close to $100 think that $500 player is a rip-off. Certainly Oppo is not a mass market product. It is known only in the enthusiasts circles who want to spend more to get that extra juice for a price. Favoring one niche product over another is a matter of taste (however good one may be). Again I am not defending Lexison in this case, neither am I questioning the quality of output of Oppo.
It is not easy for product not costing less than a few thousand dollars to be in the Recommended A level component in a snob magazine like Stereophile. So, Oppo must have done something right.
But calling other brands as cheats and rip-offs seems a bit extreme. And calling Oppo a revolutionary/industry changing product? Come on...
I feel that the fan-boyism of Oppo is clouding a few people's judgment.
Just my .02

Agree with you here.

I know people who say Oppo is a complete rip off ! Is it actually a rip off? Depends on who the end user is and what is important for them.
I feel all electronic products are either a rip off or great value for money. It all depends on the user !

A western classical listener may upgrade his oppo player (a spec band wagon product) to a super hi-end transport/dac source so that he can see layers into the performance and maybe locate the lone violin player sitting 20 rows into the musicians. And then get startled by a drum which can be exactly located a few metres to his left, well defined in shape and harmonics.
The spec bandwagon guy who listens to pop on budget electronics will cry FOUL!

Well who is correct ? And what is value for money?

It is for the buyer and listener to decide.

An Oppo BD player costing 30k is a complete waste of money for most non-videophiles who do not have state of the art associated equipment and test discs to show off the texture on the fur of the kangaroo in some zoo. But this is important to some just like the position of the violin player for a hard core audiophile.

There are some genuine rip offs though. Like the Lexicon player. But not all of them are rip offs !

Most of these are very relative !

 

[unleash_me]

Deja Vu.....guess I'll be sticking with the Editor's comment still.

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

is any price worth for that difference, or would you limit yourself at some price point?

i would limit myself based on my affordability ......otherwise there is no limit .......i think the source which reads your discs are very important .........also u need to look at it in this way........u have already invested in a amp and speakers so if want that kind of output ........then cutting corners when it comes to a CD player or cables does not make sense ..........in which case the whole money goes down the drain ....

the other option is to go for a compact system ........many of these compact systems like the ones from denon offer almost the same quality / output as these seperate ( budget )components do.......

Also i have seen people buying SACD players ........here in india ........SACD's are hardly available ........so there u can save some money ...by deciding what exactly u would be using your cd player for ?.............

 

[square_wave]

Deja Vu.....guess I'll be sticking with the Editor's comment still.

I think I'll quote him here.

"It's very simple: if you think the performance justifies the price, buy it; if you don't, don't."

Agree completely.

 

[heliumflight]

Kindly excuse for the slightly off topic question but in the quest for 'audio nirvana', ARE we also getting cheated for expensive speaker cable, interconnects and coaxial cable?

Thank you for your time


--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4

 

[suri]

Kindly excuse for the slightly off topic question but in the quest for 'audio nirvana', ARE we also getting cheated for expensive speaker cable, interconnects and coaxial cable?

Thank you for your time


--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4

hi heliumflight -

in short - YES!

but look at this comparo -

honda city - bmw 330i - nissan 370z - porsche 911 - lamborghini gallardo-

each of these cars has a particular construction set - and all do their job well (except the nissan).

vast disparity in prices-

yet - each car will have a set of buyers who either think that the others are rip-off/too cheap!

in choosing purchase-able material things - the buyer is the singular - the one - and the onlookers are the ones who call him/her- wise/foolish

regards

 

[denom]

hi heliumflight -
each of these cars has a particular construction set - and all do their job well (except the nissan).

regards

Hi Suri,

Please explain what the Nissan 370z does not do well...

Regards
Denom

 

[suri]

Hi Suri,

Please explain what the Nissan 370z does not do well...

Regards
Denom

hehehe!! denom-

all this is hearsay - because i have not driven the nissan - or even sat in one-

have driven the bmw530i - so can extrapolate the engine to the 3 series -

but nissan is a pretender - a car can only be as good as it's engine - and, especially - in this niche - where driver involvement is the raison de etre of the purchase - the nissan should be called a superfast TRACTOR.

only BMW and Honda know how to make desirable and potent engines - they win the engine oscars every other year

the others - they make high torque - low revving european engines meant for things other than driver involvement.

nissan would do well in the business of making racing tractors

 

[denom]

Suri,

Why do you call Nissan a Tractor? I suggest you get yourself a TD of the 370Z. If you get a chance to sample a Skyline GTR, that will be really the ultimate.... Am sure your view of Nissan will change for the better.

Honda & BMW no doubt make good engines but IMHO these brands, esp Honda are way too overated...

The crux of the original thread which we have detoured from can very well apply to Honda :indifferent14:

Incidentally, Mr. Ferruchio Lamborghini started out manufacturing Tractors & Farm Equipment, made a good amount of money bought himself a Ferrari which invariably broke down, of which he complained to Mr. Enzo Ferrari, who told him to stop whining as he after all was a tractor manufacturer & had no bizness to buy a Ferrari in the 1st place, long story short, Mr. Feruchio Lamborghini was super pissed & woved to make a better sportscar than Ferrari,
History lesson over, sorry to bring this up but the 'Tractor' theme got me going....hyeah:
PS: Thank god for Tractors, as the humble 'Tractor' gave us the Legend that is a superbonkingmadsuperdupercar called LAMBORGHINI!!!:yahoo::clapping::yahoo::licklips:

 

[suri]

Suri,

Why do you call Nissan a Tractor? I suggest you get yourself a TD of the 370Z. If you get a chance to sample a Skyline GTR, that will be really the ultimate.... Am sure your view of Nissan will change for the better.

Honda & BMW no doubt make good engines but IMHO these brands, esp Honda are way too overated...

The crux of the original thread which we have detoured from can very well apply to Honda :indifferent14:

Incidentally, Mr. Ferruchio Lamborghini started out manufacturing Tractors & Farm Equipment, made a good amount of money bought himself a Ferrari which invariably broke down, of which he complained to Mr. Enzo Ferrari, who told him to stop whining as he after all was a tractor manufacturer & had no bizness to buy a Ferrari in the 1st place, long story short, Mr. Feruchio Lamborghini was super pissed & woved to make a better sportscar than Ferrari,
History lesson over, sorry to bring this up but the 'Tractor' theme got me going....hyeah:
PS: Thank god for Tractors, as the humble 'Tractor' gave us the Legend that is a superbonkingmadsuperdupercar called LAMBORGHINI!!!:yahoo::clapping::yahoo::licklips:

hi denom -

about the honda - you must be referring to the Jazz?

about nissan and lamborghini - the difference-

lambhorghini went from making tractors to good road cars-

but nissan has gone from making cars to tractors!!!:clapping::clapping:

 

[denom]

hi denom -

about the honda - you must be referring to the Jazz?

about nissan and lamborghini - the difference-

lambhorghini went from making tractors to good road cars-

but nissan has gone from making cars to tractors!!!:clapping::clapping:

Yes Suri,

Honda in general..... Jzzz annoyed less said the better about it.....
Do not forget that Nissan is now under control of the french (Renault)
Yet the Z series of cars & the mighty GTR are true 'Datsuns/Nissans' & surely not Tractors:licklips:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The difference between two cars such as a cheao[ish] city runaround and an expensive sportscar can be seen in many, indisputable, and often measurable ways: it is not at all fair to extend the analogy to two speaker cables or interconnects whose prices differ by the same factor, or two to amplifiers or cd players likewise.

The buyer of a porsche does not find the engine of a Honda City inside.

(Sorry: I think somebody already did this argument --- but it bears repeating)

 

[suri]

The difference between two cars such as a cheao[ish] city runaround and an expensive sportscar can be seen in many, indisputable, and often measurable ways: it is not at all fair to extend the analogy to two speaker cables or interconnects whose prices differ by the same factor, or two to amplifiers or cd players likewise.

The buyer of a porsche does not find the engine of a Honda City inside.

(Sorry: I think somebody already did this argument --- but it bears repeating)

but thad, i thought the analogy was particularly apt -

the most expensive speaker cables/connecting cables have exotic material employed in their construction (silver - gold/ platinum? - carbon fibre ) - and likewise, the most expensive CD players.

you would not find cheap untreated copper wire if you were to slit open a $ 10,000/- /1 meter - IC - well,hehehe!

the Honda NSX (not in production now) was/is a much better driver experience than the porsche 911 (so, i have read)

 

[marsilians]

but thad, i thought the analogy was particularly apt -

the most expensive speaker cables/connecting cables have exotic material employed in their construction (silver - gold/ platinum? - carbon fibre ) - and likewise, the most expensive CD players.

you would not find cheap untreated copper wire if you were to slit open a $ 10,000/- /1 meter - IC - well,hehehe!

the Honda NSX (not in production now) was/is a much better driver experience than the porsche 911 (so, i have read)

Hi Suri

You are making a lot ofassertions based on what you have read re: the cars. Being a previous owner of Honda and BMW I can say that each has its own strengths and weaknesses. And its not fair to compare them in the first place. Note by reading about moon dont make me an astronaut ...

Re: cables, you only have to look into some of the so called "expensive" speakers to realise how one is getting ripped off. Oh and don't forget Monster is one of the biggest cheaters out there.

 

[gobble]

Kindly excuse for the slightly off topic question but in the quest for 'audio nirvana', ARE we also getting cheated for expensive speaker cable, interconnects and coaxial cable?

Thank you for your time


--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4

Hi Helimflight

Ultimately it is the mind that cheats us more than that extraneous other factor. Se lets stop feeling so paranoid about it all. Those who have money will buy and try without feeling the pinch and will hear the difference if any.

The others will always be very vocal and protest about all the gear they cannot afford... !

Just my chaar annas


Cheers

 

[longshanks]

the Honda NSX (not in production now) was/is a much better driver experience than the porsche 911 (so, i have read)

NSX(turbocharged) compared to the Boxster may be yes.

Compared to the 911 turbo..... No way.

 

[suri]

Hi Suri

You are making a lot ofassertions based on what you have read re: the cars. Being a previous owner of Honda and BMW I can say that each has its own strengths and weaknesses. And its not fair to compare them in the first place. Note by reading about moon dont make me an astronaut ...

Re: cables, you only have to look into some of the so called "expensive" speakers to realise how one is getting ripped off. Oh and don't forget Monster is one of the biggest cheaters out there.

hi marsilians -

i will be test-driving the nissan 370z (for a half-day) in July - sure that it will be a tractor.

i own a honda city vtec 2001 - honda jazz- honda civic and have used/abused them extensively. i have test driven the old/new 3.0 litre and 3.5 litre accord

our family uses me as a driver and i have used/abused BMW 320d, BMW 530i extensively - not driven the 7, though

i have test driven all the mercs - including c- kompressor - e-kompressor - all the e-diesels and s-350 and s-500(old import)- i used to own a 1958 190d (left hand drive)

have driven all the VWs - polo, jetta and passat - all tractors - with the passat being a well -appointed tractor - the beetle is a terrible mistake for a tractor

all the skodas - all tractors with the superb being a superb tractor

i hate suv - so i do not bother about trying them.

volvo -s80 - driven it - no comments

see, i am passionate about motor cars - my friends know this and indulge me - whenever a new car is bought/is going to be bought - i am called - i have driven to goa to test drive a car for a friend

so, as far as cars are concerned - i would think that i am (nearly) an astronaut!

the Hondas and BMWs do bear comparison - and i would say -

honda is the poor man's BMW-

both these cars are driver- centric and produce their maximum power at/ near the redline-

the other cars (not the porsches and ferraris) are all about low-end torque - and, however powerful they are, run out of breath at redline - you cannot bounce these engines off the rev-limiter.

there is something intoxicating about the honda and bmw engines (not hearsay - personal experience) -

and if i buy another car (and i can afford it) - it would be the bmw 330i - will be test driving it very soon now -

regds suri

about the cables - i do not think much about them - but after recent issues with my DIY speaker project (sibilance/honkiness) i might have to think more about them