C.A.P.S. v2.0

[square_wave]

Has anyone attempted this ?

Computer Audiophile - Computer Audiophile Pocket Server - C.A.P.S. v2.0

One problem I can see is lack of availability of good quality cases and parts. For example this case is not available in India.

Origen AE Technology - Where to Buy

One can ask, why not build a regular HTPC with whatever is available in the market ? Well, audiophiles are a finicky lot And I don't want anything which resembles a regular tower pc near my music system.

I am looking for a minimalist server purpose build for audio. Looking for cheaper options to the ones available in the market like the ones below.

W4S Music Server 1TB (MS-1) - Music Server - DAC 2, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

SOtM sMS-1000 Audiophile Music Server with USB output

 

[hydra]

I don't think we have a true blue CAPS build on the forum. In the sense that the music PCs here don't use the SOTM USB card or the SOTM SATA noise filter.

I referred to their build extensively while I was building my Music PC, and I definitely embraced the spirit of their build. But, I prefer to have my music stored locally in the machine itself (rather than have it piped over a network). And I went in for the most minimal Win 7 version, the Win 7 Home Basic 32 bit.

If you look at cabinets by Silverstone, I'm sure you'll find something you'll like, that will look really good with the rest of your kit. Lian Li also has a few good looking cabinets.

Building a Music PC for yourself will definitely not come to a lot. You should be able to build a Music PC with a really good cabinet and a SSD for about 25K. Music Storage extra

Something like this:

Mobo: Intel Fanless Mobo or AMD E350, Fanless Mobo under 5K. I'd prefer the E350 platform as it has much better graphics too. And I use the same platform (but a different Mobo).

RAM: Corsair, 4GB: 1.1K

SSD: OCZ Agility III, 60GB: 3.8K

Cabinet: Silverstone LC19: 10.6K (includes 120w fanless DC-DC PSU)
NOTE: If you get another cabinet, getting a good fanless PSU, something like a 120w PICO PSU with adapter would run to about 5.5k to 6K at least.

Software: JRMC v17: About 2.5K

OS: Windows 7 Home Basic: What it costs now.

The total comes to under 25K. This setup will run fully fanless and will be dead silent. There are no moving parts in this build.

You don't have local storage here, and will need a NAS or an external disk to store your music. A NAS or another PC on the home network will be preferred, as it will likely sound better (no additional load on the resources that an external HDD, esp. a 2.5" one will likely cause). A 3.5" external HDD with its own power supply should be all right. But if you plan to use a USB DAC (which I guess you will), it is best to leave the USB ports free of any other load, IMHO.

This cabinet will only take one HDD, so if you want local storage, you can use a 1TB 2.5" HDD instead of the SSD. It will be quite silent but will introduce a moving part to the build. Something like this. About 5.7K.

 

[square_wave]

Thanks Hydra for this information. I am moving fast to finalize something for my music pc. Is it possible to source the SOTM USB card or the SOTM SATA noise filter in India ? Can this be incorporated into this build ?

One thing I have noticed about all the well-reviewed music servers are quite costly. SOTM, WYRED4SOUND, SONORE. I am not talking about the esoteric ones here. These are the ones which are supposed to be cost effective !

All are upwards of 2000 $. Even the caps build sold by small green computers cost 2400 $ with all the options.
Chris Connaker CAPS Computer Audiophile

I wonder what goes into these to make it so costly.

 

[hydra]

@square wave,

The SOTM USB Card and the SATA Filter are not available in India. You'll need to buy them from SOTM itself. The USB Card and the SATA Filter together themselves come to about $400 plus, not counting shipping.

And yes, a SOTM USB Card and SATA Noise filter can be integrated into the build I've mentioned. But I'm not so sure they are really needed, and whether they will really make a difference. But then I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any setup with these installed so I will not say they absolutely will not help.

Instead of buying the SOTM USB card, I'd suggest getting a Musical Fidelity V-Link II or a M2Tech Hiface. The Vlink II is $130 on Amazon (shipping extra) for reference. Both items are available here in India. These devices convert the USP output to digital coaxial (SPDIF) and that will help you feed a DAC through the digital coaxial input, rather than the USB input. Generally I've found that using the digital coaxial input of DACs make them sound better. Quite a few posts on forums also echo the same feeling. But then there are also DACs like the Wyred4Sound II which seem to do great with their USB input.

Chris's build also probably charges for the Windows 7 tweaks and for the "knowhow". And I'm sure building a computer costs much more in the US than it does here, in terms of labour. Here if we get a tech to build a computer, it may run to Rs.500.00 to Rs.1000.00 at the max for his work. But over there...

You'll also notice that I've omitted a CD/DVD drive from my build. (You can add one if you want, but if you're not using the build to rip CDs and if you're not using it to play CDs, it is not really needed). A DVD Writer drive will cost about 1K here. The Chris Connaker build has a Slim Profile BluRay drive.

 

[SatMumbai]

I am perfectly happy with my Mac Mini as media server (I have put SSD in it)
I do not know whether there is a back to back comparision done with C.A.P.S against Mac Mini but I really doubt the difference, if any, justifies the price jump.
My 2 cents.

 

[hydra]

^^ Good you mentioned this!

A Mac Mini with Amarra installed does kick some serious ass. For about 42-43K (not including software), it is a no hassle Music PC indeed. With an iPad or an iPhone, the control aspect is also well taken care of.

A friend's 2012 Mac Mini with Amarra beat the socks off my Music PC (with Foobar) at a recent comparo we did. I have a feeling JRMC17 (what I use now) has a fair fighting chance. We'll probably have another shootout this Christmas week when he'll be visiting me.

If I were starting afresh, I'd give very serious consideration to a Mac Mini for music playback.

 

[square_wave]

^^ Good you mentioned this!

A Mac Mini with Amarra installed does kick some serious ass. For about 42-43K (not including software), it is a no hassle Music PC indeed. With an iPad or an iPhone, the control aspect is also well taken care of.

A friend's 2012 Mac Mini with Amarra beat the socks off my Music PC (with Foobar) at a recent comparo we did. I have a feeling JRMC17 (what I use now) has a fair fighting chance. We'll probably have another shootout this Christmas week when he'll be visiting me.

If I were starting afresh, I'd give very serious consideration to a Mac Mini for music playback.

Hey Hydra and guys,

This is one of the reasons why I am a little wary of assembling something generic. Things are not so simple in computer playback land.

A Mac mini is a good solution. When you compared, did you take care of all the variables ? How was this comparison done ? One thing I know is that Macs dont play flacs. What player was used and what type of file ?

A friend of mine is now using win 7 with JPlay with good results.

 

[hemantwaghe]

are atom motherboards on laptop are fanless? if yes are thy good as silent lap? I mean can I change my atom lap HDD with Solid State one will the laptop will be better source for audio? ( with USB dac and music on ext HDD or NAS)

 

[hydra]

@square_wave,
IMHO the reason the Mac Mini won was Amarra (the playback software). iTunes playing off the same Mac Mini sounded far inferior to Foobar in my Music PC. Amarra will run only on a Mac

Our comparo was quite straightforward. The same 3 FLAC files were used. Amarra does play FLAC.

Except for the source & software [Mac Mini + Amarra vs. Win 7 MusicPC + Foobar (WASAPI)] and the interface to the DAC [Mac Mini > USB > Rega DAC vs. Music PC/Xonar STX > Digital Coaxial > Rega DAC] everything else was the same. We played the same track on both sources and switched between the source switches on the Rega DAC.

Compared to Amarra, the bass was quite loose on Foobar. The midrange was better on Amarra. And overall Amarra did sound better. I don;t quite remember the specifics now: Just the result.

I switched over to JRMCv17 a bit after that and JRMC has the same advantages over Foobar that Amarra has (from my memory only, though). My friend will be coming down for Christmas and he's bringing his Mac Mini, so I look forward to a fresh shootout.

It is quite likely that Amarra and JRMC have some kind of ninja-DSP working in the background. Whatever it is, I do prefer the final result from both (over Foobar). Which one I prefer more, I hope to find out soon!

You should also note that the cost for entry in the case of a Mac Mini is almost double that of a Windows based custom build Music PC. And a legal version of the full Amarra will be quite heavy on the wallet indeed vis-a-vis JRMC. But I completely agree that the Mac Mini is a very good buy-it-play-it Music PC, if you install Amarra.

 

[hydra]

@hemantwaghe, laptops are not likely to be fanless. The cramped confines will not allow for passive cooling. Also, in my experience, laptops are not as good sources as desktops, esp. when on battery power.

But that is only in comparison with desktops. I'm sure you will get good results from the laptop if you do a clean install and use just the music playback software. I'd avoid using even anti-virus. (I don't have any software on my Music PC other than JRMC and VLC).

An SSD is not really needed. 2.5" hard disks are inherently quiet enough. And I'm not sure if an SSD will make the music sound better. Some say it does (and interestingly Amarra recommends using an SSD), but I haven't found the SSD in my Music PC to have improved the sound quality any. I have it in there because the 3TB WD Green 5400rpm HDD I use for storage would boot up and shut down pretty slow. Also I'd trust a proven SSD more than a 3TB HDD any day.

 

[square_wave]

@hydra,

[Mac Mini > USB > Rega DAC vs. Music PC/Xonar STX > Digital Coaxial > Rega DAC]

There is a variable here. One is usb out and the other is Xonar STX > Digital out.

 

[Vinod.R]

When will you guys speak English?

By the way can something like this be done to store movies?

If I go the computer way, sure as hell I will ask Square wave and Hydra for help!

 

[hydra]

@hydra,

[Mac Mini > USB > Rega DAC vs. Music PC/Xonar STX > Digital Coaxial > Rega DAC]

There is a variable here. One is usb out and the other is Xonar STX > Digital out.

Yup, that is true. The Mac Mini does not have a digital out, so we had to use USB.

The funny thing is, the digital coaxial input is the Rega DAC's best sounding input. And the Mac Mini was at a disadvantage here as it was using the USB input!

When will you guys speak English?

By the way can something like this be done to store movies?

If I go the computer way, sure as hell I will ask Square wave and Hydra for help!

Yes, you can build a HTPC that will store movies also. Only, you should avoid the Intel Atom board and use an AMD E350 board instead (for its superior built-in graphics and HDMI out). Or even better, you can use another AMD board like the F1A55-M LE and get an A3 processor, and a discrete graphics card for even better performance. This would end up a bit more expensive, though. And you can easily skip the SSD and put in a high capacity 3.5" WD Green Drive (or a Seagate 5800rpm drive).

The components you choose will depend on what you want your PC to do. The AMD E350 platform will be great for a music + movie setup, with the emphasis more on music.

Always ready to help, but for a HTPC build, you'd be better off asking for advice from baijuxaviour or sam9s.

 

[apk]

Just a quick question regarding a music PC:

Is it necessary to have a sound card installed (assuming that you want to use digital out to an external DAC) or does the motherboard support digital out which can be taken directly into the DAC. Does using the digital out of sound cards like Asus STX or a ESI-Juli make a difference compared to the motherboard digital out?

Thanks,
APK

 

[SatMumbai]

Yup, that is true. The Mac Mini does not have a digital out, so we had to use USB.

All Mac Minis have Optical Digital outs.
I use the Optical Digital Output on my mac Mini to connect to the various DACs that I had (including the Rega DAC). The Optical Out on Mac Mini does not look like a standard port, instead it is called Mini Optical Out which also doubles as the Analgoue Headphone out. All you need is a small adapter for the regular Optical cable.

 

[SatMumbai]

The funny thing is, the digital coaxial input is the Rega DAC's best sounding input. And the Mac Mini was at a disadvantage here as it was using the USB input!

I am with you on this. The USB implementation in many DACs is more to impress the marketing people. I particularly liked the USB implementation Classe CP-800.
As I was mentioning in the earlier post, please use the Optical Out of Mac Mini to have a more even comparison.

 

[reignofchaos]

That looks like an HDPlex case with usual mini itx hardware - that does not cost anywhere close to 1800$. The USB card seems decent for 300$ if you really care about noiseless usb. Even if you pick that up, you can build all of it yourself for under 1000$ easy.

 

[hydra]

Just a quick question regarding a music PC:

Is it necessary to have a sound card installed (assuming that you want to use digital out to an external DAC) or does the motherboard support digital out which can be taken directly into the DAC. Does using the digital out of sound cards like Asus STX or a ESI-Juli make a difference compared to the motherboard digital out?

Thanks,
APK

Some motherboards do support digital outs (Coaxial or Optical, or sometimes both). For HTPC purposes, I guess these outputs should be good enough.

But personally, for Music PC use, I'd prefer to use a dedicated soundcard like the Juli@ or the Xonar STX to take a digital coaxial signal out. I can't quite justify this technically and this is a personal preference. I do think using the dedicated soundcards make a positive difference. (The Juli@ particularly, has two separate clocks for the 44.1kHz multiples and the 48kHz sampling rate multiples.)

There is a long discussion on this on the forum, but I don't think it ended up anywhere, as discussions of this kind tend to

All Mac Minis have Optical Digital outs.
I use the Optical Digital Output on my mac Mini to connect to the various DACs that I had (including the Rega DAC). The Optical Out on Mac Mini does not look like a standard port, instead it is called Mini Optical Out which also doubles as the Analgoue Headphone out. All you need is a small adapter for the regular Optical cable.

I was not aware of this. I did know that some Macbooks have a combo analog + optical digital audio out port, but I didn't at all know that this was true of the Mac Mini too. I don't think my friend who is using the Mac Mini is aware of this either -- he uses a Beresford Caiman via USB.

That looks like an HDPlex case with usual mini itx hardware - that does not cost anywhere close to 1800$. The USB card seems decent for 300$ if you really care about noiseless usb. Even if you pick that up, you can build all of it yourself for under 1000$ easy.

That is indeed a good-looking case. It looks like it means business! The H5.S case, specced out with a 150w Pcio PSU & adapter comes to "just" $353. But that is nowhere near justifying the price of the Chris Connaker build.

 

[square_wave]

When we make comparisons of PCs for audio, it is very important to do apples to apples comparison. Digital outs from audio pcs need a completely different build than when you focus on usb outs.

DACs specifically designed for usb audio come with highly specialized input implementations. There is a complete industry around this kind of implementations.
The USB out from Mac minis are especially good for audio. If you connect any half decent usb dac into a mac mini, you will get pretty decent sound.

I am specifically looking for usb outs from pcs.

The H5.S case looks super duper. I guess if we import, shipping will surely kill the deal.

 

[reignofchaos]

The USB out from Mac minis are especially good for audio. If you connect any half decent usb dac into a mac mini, you will get pretty decent sound.

Not really sure what is so special about mac mini's usb outs. Its just plain old usb from an H77 chipset with a 3rd gen i3/i5/i7 CPU. I'm 100% sure apple has not put any voodoo magic into it. Take any mini itx board with a good external power supply and it'll theoretically sound the same. If it sounds better, it is either the OS implementation or the software but definitely not the USB ports.