• Hello and Welcome to HiFiVision.com - an online community for the home entertainment and tech enthusiasts!

    If you would like to ask a question, participate in a discussion and view attachments please Register yourself.

C9 flashing effect on near black content

Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Ok so I tried reducing the brightness and kept oled light at max at the time nd credits of maleficient 2. So when I got the brightness to 45 the grayish went away and it was black. But there was flashing. I also tried the below link where it is mentioned that tv’s having this fault will show flashing when colours are changing. I also wanted to make sure it was not the shield so connected the HD directly in the tv and it was the same

Yup! This is the chrominane overshoot test like the one I linked to in my thread. C9 flashes in this, but as I wrote earlier, less than the Metz OLED, and I haven't noticed flashing in any content. Watching Godzilla 2019 right now in 4k HDR; blacks aren't black in this either, which is an artistic choice, but there's no flashing, which is what should happen for you too once you set accurate black level setting.

So now that you found out your accurate brightness setting for SDR, go back and check the problematic content. This video does show flashing; Vincent and John also mentioned that such tests still show flashing in 2019 sets, but they didn't see it in content either after calibration.

You'll have to calibrate you HDR black level too. Use the avsforum HDR calibration slides, or as suggesred earlier, use the LG demo video. Pause it and check black level in that. If you can find a fade to Black in that, then pause when the screen entirely black.

Btw, Sony 2019 sets are worse than LG in this. Just check Vincent's AG9 review.
 
SPONSORED ADS

SPONSORED ADS

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Yup! This is the chrominane overshoot test like the one I linked to in my thread. C9 flashes in this, but as I wrote earlier, less than the Metz OLED, and I haven't noticed flashing in any content. Watching Godzilla 2019 right now in 4k HDR; blacks aren't black in this either, which is an artistic choice, but there's no flashing, which is what should happen for you too once you set accurate black level setting.

So now that you found out your accurate brightness setting for SDR, go back and check the problematic content. This video does show flashing; Vincent and John also mentioned that such tests still show flashing in 2019 sets, but they didn't see it in content either after calibration.

You'll have to calibrate you HDR black level too. Use the avsforum HDR calibration slides, or as suggesred earlier, use the LG demo video. Pause it and check black level in that. If you can find a fade to Black in that, then pause when the screen entirely black.

Btw, Sony 2019 sets are worse than LG in this. Just check Vincent's AG9 review.
The maleficient 2 part is actually HDR. But why even after going full black it is flashing? So why does after 49 brightness it’s not black in this scene? I am just curious what if we want more brightness?
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
The maleficient 2 part is actually HDR. But why even after going full black it is flashing? So why does after 49 brightness it’s not black in this scene? I am just curious what if we want more brightness?
How did you calibrate HDR? The YouTube pure black video is SDR. Don't mix the two. I don't know if 49 is the right one. If you had to go down till 45 in SDR, you'll have to go lower in HDR too, but you'll have to use a pure black slide in HDR to calibrate that, as simply using 45 might not be correct. 46-47 might be the correct one. HDR works differently as tone mapping is needed. SDR doesn't need tone mapping.

Brightness is just the terminology. It's actually black level and contrast is white level. Uff! These manufacturers really fucked up by using incorrect terminology. Should have just used the techincal ones. Confuses so many people.

In HDR you can't just go brighter without changing the tone map. I can't explain everything here right now, as it'll require shit loads of typing. Just watch info/tech videos about HDR on YouTube and how it works.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
How did you calibrate HDR? The YouTube pure black video is SDR. Don't mix the two. I don't know if 49 is the right one. If you had to go down till 45 in SDR, you'll have to go lower in HDR too, but you'll have to use a pure black slide in HDR to calibrate that, as simply using 45 might not be correct. 46-47 might be the correct one. HDR works differently as tone mapping is needed. SDR doesn't need tone mapping.

Brightness is just the terminology. It's actually black level and contrast is white level. Uff! These manufacturers really fucked up by using incorrect terminology. Should have just used the techincal ones. Confuses so many people.

In HDR you can't just go brighter without changing the tone map. I can't explain everything here right now, as it'll require shit loads of typing. Just watch info/tech videos about HDR on YouTube and how it works.
Ok I actually miss typed it’s not 45 but 49 for both HDR,SDR and I have corrected the post as well. The test image I am using is the end credits for both HDR and SDR where the background is completely black and in the middle from bottom to top the end credits move. Now the background is deep black but the end credits from bottom to top isn’t smooth it’s kind of flashing and when the words go to the top and disappears it scrambles at times
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Ok I actually miss typed it’s not 45 but 49 for both HDR,SDR and I have corrected the post as well. The test image I am using is the end credits for both HDR and SDR where the background is completely black and in the middle from bottom to top the end credits move. Now the background is deep black but the end credits from bottom to top isn’t smooth it’s kind of flashing and when the words go to the top and disappears it scrambles at times
Oh! Dude! Hahahahahahahahahahahhahaha. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaahahha ahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I think you're talking about the stutter now. Credits are stuttery. Do you have Trumotion at Clear? This 24 fps stutter you see. The latest short film I edited, I had to tell the client to ditch two fonts they had chosen because they looked worse than usual while scrolling.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Oh! Dude! Hahahahahahahahahahahhahaha. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaahahha ahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I think you're talking about the stutter now. Credits are stuttery. Do you have Trumotion at Clear? This 24 fps stutter you see. The latest short film I edited, I had to tell the client to ditch two fonts they had chosen because they looked worse than usual while scrolling.
Oh I see hahaha. So I am all good I guess. Motion I have tried smooth, clear and I am finding smooth to be better as I can see a lot of stutter in clear.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
But it is like that initially and is smooth after 30-40 seconds.The stutter feels like flashing cause the credits which is in white kind of lights up and goes dark in regular intervals. I am just going to leave it as it is and enjoy now that I am getting deep blacks
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Oh I see hahaha. So I am all good I guess. Motion I have tried smooth, clear and I am finding smooth to be better as I can see a lot of stutter in clear.
Smooth adds soap opera effect; Clear doesn't. Smooth will also add a lot more artifacts than Clear, which might also be happening on the text. Sttuter is a natural part of 24 fps or 30 fps content too. Can't be helped. OLEDs look worse because of their super duper fast response rate. So in a 120 Hz panel, with 5:5 pulldown, each frame will be held on screen for 5 frames and then the next will come, without any motion blur, leading to choppy/stuttery motion.

Use this video to check the effect of each setting:
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
M
But it is like that initially and is smooth after 30-40 seconds.The stutter feels like flashing cause the credits which is in white kind of lights up and goes dark in regular intervals. I am just going to leave it as it is and enjoy now that I am getting deep blacks
Might also be artifacting because of the smooth setting. I won't recommend using it tbh. Clear is where it's at.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
M


Might also be artifacting because of the smooth setting. I won't recommend using it tbh. Clear is where it's at.
Ok I also tried watching in clear but lot of scenes are bad and smooth was fine. In aquaman when both the hero and heroine are in Italy when the camera keeps moving around the heroine and also showing few people and flowers it feels like the screen is flickering and I am not able to see the faces in the background or when the camera moves and also the flowers. But in smooth it is all clearly visible
 
SPONSORED ADS
Last edited:

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Ok I also tried watching in clear but lot of scenes are bad and smooth was fine. In aquaman when both the hero and heroine are Italy when the camera keeps moving around the heroine and also showing few people and flowers it feels like the screen is flickering and I am not able to see the faces in the background or when the camera moves and also the flowers. But in smooth it is all clearly visible
Yeah, but with 24 fps you aren't supposed to see everything clearly anyway in such shots. The stutter with clear resembles the stutter you would get with a projector in the cinema. That's why LG is now renaming Clear as Cinema Clear. Smooth is the basically converting 24 fps to 60 fps, which is why they call it soap opera effect. Anyway, if you like smooth, keep it at that. Your TV, your choice.
 
Last edited:

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Yeah, but with 24 fps you aren't supposed to see everything clearly anyway in such shots. The stutter with clear resembles the stutter you would get with a projector in the cinema. That's why LG is now renaming Clear as Cinema Clear. Smooth is the basically converting 24 fps to 60 fps, which is why they call it soap opera effect. Anyway, if you like smooth, keep it at that. Your TV, your choice.
ok thanks a lot bro. Helped me a lot to arrive at a good settings and understand about the tv and it’s settings. I guess mine is all good both in terms of the panel and hardware.
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
ok thanks a lot bro. Helped me a lot to arrive at a good settings and understand about the tv and it’s settings. I guess mine is all good both in terms of the panel and hardware.
Haha! Just sit back and enjoy. Godzilla 2019 had some pretty savvy use of HDR. Dark overall, but full bright in lightning during fightings scenes. Was watching it with a friend. He was amazed. Infact, sometimes he found it to be too bright. Lol
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Haha! Just sit back and enjoy. Godzilla 2019 had some pretty savvy use of HDR. Dark overall, but full bright in lightning during fightings scenes. Was watching it with a friend. He was amazed. Infact, sometimes he found it to be too bright. Lol
Yeah even I find HDR to be bright. Have oled light at 75. My bedroom where I have my HT set up is dark even in the day due to pitch black curtains.
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Yeah even I find HDR to be bright. Have oled light at 75. My bedroom where I have my HT set up is dark even in the day due to pitch black curtains.
Dude...hahaha...that's blasphemy. HDR needs OLED light to be at maximum. I tell you what, instead of lowering OLED, turn peak brightness to medium.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Dude...hahaha...that's blasphemy. HDR needs OLED light to be at maximum. I tell you what, instead of lowering OLED, turn peak brightness to medium.
Ok sure will try it later tomorrow just switched everything off.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
1,909
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Dude...hahaha...that's blasphemy. HDR needs OLED light to be at maximum. I tell you what, instead of lowering OLED, turn peak brightness to medium.
I am using cinema home mode for HDR so peak brightness option isn’t available. It available in cinema mode I guess. I think like you said smooth isn’t the best option. Even though everything is clear and smooth it’s slightly stressful for the eyes at times. Trying clear. It does stutter at tiles but overall feels easy in the eyes.
 

Marakk

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
750
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
I am using cinema home mode for HDR so peak brightness option isn’t available. It available in cinema mode I guess. I think like you said smooth isn’t the best option. Even though everything is clear and smooth it’s slightly stressful for the eyes at times. Trying clear. It does stutter at tiles but overall feels easy in the eyes.
That's why I use Technicolor in HDR10. It offers everything, including AI brightness. In my observation, cutting OLED light will affect tone mapping of the content in the lower luminance range too, sometimes in an undesirable manner. Peak Brightness is actually white pixel boosting, so you'll get lower brightness without affecting the tone mapping of the rest of the content.

Clear is the best. No soap opera effect. Minimum artifacting. Just cuts the harshness of the stutter and makes it less choppy. You'll get used to the new motion in a week. :)
 
Last edited:

OM_2K19

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
17
Points
3
Location
bangalore
Have a look at this thread (if you have not already), it has got some good information on this.

 
SPONSORED ADS

Top