Cables for Biwiring-simple wish

[Soundstage]

Isnt 6mm sq a bit too much?

Sir,

To revisit your query, the VDH D 352 Hybrid which I also have, has a cross sectional area of 5.23 mm sq. Their Magnum Hybrid measures 8.54 mm sq! So 6 mm sq would, in no way be radical.

Some of the speaker cables I have seen make 6 mm sq look puny. An all MBL system I have heard had speaker cables which, in terms of sheer thickness, would feel at home sitting on one of those wooden spools of underground cables we often see lying next to our pavements.

Cheers

 

[Soundstage]

Man..path breaking approach..hats off to you..
my 2 cents..
discussed offline with the electrical engineers...they told me highest conductivity among all the cables -grounding or earthing cables which are connected to lightening arrestor...
may be one day I will start the audiophile cable industry based on this earthing principal.

Cheers

Dheeraj

Sir,

In this hobby it is very difficult to let common sense rule while attempting to keep up with the audiophile Jones'.

All the best in your quest!

 

[dheerajin]

While I was experimenting with cables..I was also searching on the net for any one scientific argument in support of expensive speaker cables..to prove me wrong so that I can embark upon a new journey of heavenly audio revelations that most of audiophiles are enjoying..but to my surprise there was none..

Someone from the audiophile circle told me, who happens to be elite cable believer, that expensive cables have drug like effect and we enjoy that...
That time I felt , how poor I am not able to enjoy such a prosperous audio nirvana...anyway..thats his personal thought and i never heard this from any other audiophile..

ok..the thing is upon searching on the net i stumbled upon many sites , which have revealed many scientific facts about cables. Many must have gone through Blue Jeans Cables but the two, I have found are worth reading before you take the plunge into expensive cable world..

Please dont take it as a criticism, my self being a electrical engineer can not digest copper conductivity based on dollars..however when I started audio journey , I was fooled by one..so no exception here..

Pleas have a look on these two-
Speaker Wire
Speaker Wire: Fact and Fiction

Cheers

Dheeraj

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Pleas have a look on these two-
Speaker Wire

Roger Russell's article is particularly good for escaping the lockin of believing or disbelieving: he talks about what could affect sound and why.

 

[dheerajin]

some more links for perusal..

Speaker Wire Myths | Tech Channel - RadioShack

Myths and Snake OIL : Empirical Audio

https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

I wonder no one is coming up with scientific facts...only thing they say..your system is not revealing, thats why you could not distinguish the sound...
But, what about audio expert and designers, screaming with facts and figures..telling that its all myth.... and they have tested the cables with far superior system that you and me can ever imagine to have...

Sorry this place is not for debate..i forgot that..so just shared my take on expensive cables..
So far I am very much happy with Cheaper cables..
If any one wants to suggest me any new modest cable that he has discovered recently, can share the same with his post..

Cheers
Dheeraj

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

any new modest cable that he has discovered recently

Did I mention the Finolex pump cable? This was not only attached to multi-lakh speakers, but the owner and the dealer agreed that it sounded better than other cables they tried.

Vast majority of my cables came from UK, with the stuff to which they are attached. My speaker cable is some-thing-basic-from Richer Sounds --- but I really wish I had used mains house-wiring cable: solid coper, 2.5sq mm. A lot of people were doing so at that time, but I was trying to be an audiophile

If not bare ends, then quality of termination matters (at least in theory) and I do like the idea of Blue Jeans' ultrasonic welded terminals! We all gave our weaknesses. But just about anything other than a weld is just another metal/interface with room for problems.

 

[Ozzstriker]

I wonder no one is coming up with scientific facts...only thing they say..your system is not revealing, thats why you could not distinguish the sound...
But, what about audio expert and designers, screaming with facts and figures..telling that its all myth.... and they have tested the cables with far superior system that you and me can ever imagine to have...
Cheers
Dheeraj

Hi Dheeraj. I think you have taken my comments a little too hard on yourself. My apologies if they have been mis-construed. All i can say is that, if your new bulk cable from the local hardware store beats your 25K Supra Cable from a high end Swedish manufacturer, that is awesome. Now your system sounds better to you, for a pittance. Win Win. No amount of scientific journals and technical manuscripts should change that. Its like global warming. It depends which side of the fence you want to stand on. No amount of scientific data can either prove or disprove to a naysayer, whether an additional air conditioner in my house is affecting the Ross Sea glaciers. So, forget about all the technical balderdash. Your equipment, your ears, your money, your enjoyment, your opinion. As James Hetfield would say "And nothing else matters"

 

[dheerajin]

Did I mention the Finolex pump cable? This was not only attached to multi-lakh speakers, but the owner and the dealer agreed that it sounded better than other cables they tried.

Vast majority of my cables came from UK, with the stuff to which they are attached. My speaker cable is some-thing-basic-from Richer Sounds --- but I really wish I had used mains house-wiring cable: solid coper, 2.5sq mm. A lot of people were doing so at that time, but I was trying to be an audiophile

If not bare ends, then quality of termination matters (at least in theory) and I do like the idea of Blue Jeans' ultrasonic welded terminals! We all gave our weaknesses. But just about anything other than a weld is just another metal/interface with room for problems.

Thad..I agree with ultrasonic welding..but do you know this welded plug is again going to be in touch with speaker terminals, thats where all welding thing gets lost,however it is better than non welded plugs. But if you want to have minimum touch effect, then forget about spades and plugs, bare it all..
means bare wire connections are always better, because it has only two touch effects(1at amp 2nd at speaker) and current does not face 3-4 dissimilar resistive materials(amp terminal, spade, cable banana plug and speaker terminal). In bare wire case it is minimum. Sometimes you hear the diference in sound because of the plugs not because of the cable - reason is surface area of plugs exposed to the terminals of amps and speaker, this variation causes difference in sound initially and finally to the ear, and it happens sometimes not always.

and rest is YMMV

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It is not like global warming. It depends on long, long known electrical principles and can be objectively assessed and measured.

Yes, I agree with bare wires ...but my wife is ready to go out and I'm not ...

 

[dheerajin]

Hi Dheeraj. I think you have taken my comments a little too hard on yourself. My apologies if they have been mis-construed. All i can say is that, if your new bulk cable from the local hardware store beats your 25K Supra Cable from a high end Swedish manufacturer, that is awesome. Now your system sounds better to you, for a pittance. Win Win. No amount of scientific journals and technical manuscripts should change that. Its like global warming. It depends which side of the fence you want to stand on. No amount of scientific data can either prove or disprove to a naysayer, whether an additional air conditioner in my house is affecting the Ross Sea glaciers. So, forget about all the technical balderdash. Your equipment, your ears, your money, your enjoyment, your opinion. As James Hetfield would say "And nothing else matters"

No Ozzy,

Not at all..i have not taken your comments seriously..it was the only example available to me and think yourself...nothing can beat this comment for the cables...so i used this as a reference...
So now onwards your things are considered as reference

Yeah Metallica was there once..for 'nothing else matters'' and unforgiven'' ...
but now where it has gone..I dont even want to know ..

so Your equipment, your ears, your money, your enjoyment, your opinion..
but end of the day ROI matters..
and for sensible listening, common sense is above all..and that is very rare nowadays

 

[dheerajin]

. Its like global warming.

Ozzy you are giving wrong example. Fundamentals of electricity is already clear , thats why you are running the music system, power houses, car battery, car lights ans so on..
on the second hand global warming is a phenomena...it is not a calculatable..
so whatever system you are listening is based on certain fundamentals and facts..
it is not phenomena..
So please do not compare scientific facts and figures with "Saanp ka Tel"..

 

[Ozzstriker]

but end of the day ROI matters..
and for sensible listening, common sense is above all..and that is very rare nowadays

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[omishra]

Does anybody thought of "Kirchoff's law". From below diagram - Point of intersection is either at amplifier output or at speaker banana input (actually drivers), does that matter? (without biamping)

 

[ranjeetrain]

Does anybody thought of "Kirchoff's law". From below diagram - Point of intersection is either at amplifier output or at speaker banana input (actually drivers), does that matter? (without biamping)

Good point, omishra!

I have never given any importance to bi-wiring. If anything, it can only potentially mess with the way the speaker designer designed the speaker. Apart from increasing the cost to the user I don't see how it wouldg benefit someone. In any case, if I have a spare cable that I "can" use without any damage to my wallet, I'd still club them together and use as one heavier gauge wire.

 

[dheerajin]

Does anybody thought of "Kirchoff's law". From below diagram - Point of intersection is either at amplifier output or at speaker banana input (actually drivers), does that matter? (without biamping)

Yes...this is the correct electrical explanation by way of kirchoff's law for advantages of Bi-wiring. For those who cant understand the Kirchoff's Law, there is one more pic which shows water analogy

Bi-wiring separates high current demand of speaker from low current demand.
High current denotes bass and low current treble, in general.
and for more advantages of bi-wiring you can read the post- http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/615-bi-wiring-4.html

Mishrajee..could you please elaborate your post for most of the FMs.

Thanks
Dheeraj

 

[prem]

Hi Dheerajin

Since you are in the experimentation mood, try a 16 or 18 gauge solid core copper wire and check if you like it better as a speaker cable. You can get this cable at your local electrical store. Just make sure its pure copper and not tinned copper.

 

[manoj.p]

Yes...this is the correct electrical explanation by way of kirchoff's law for advantages of Bi-wiring. For those who cant understand the Kirchoff's Law, there is one more pic which shows water analogy

Bi-wiring separates high current demand of speaker from low current demand.
High current denotes bass and low current treble, in general.
and for more advantages of bi-wiring you can read the post- http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/615-bi-wiring-4.html

Mishrajee..could you please elaborate your post for most of the FMs.

Thanks
Dheeraj

I think omishra's post says otherwise.

 

[Ozzstriker]

so Your equipment, your ears, your money, your enjoyment, your opinion..
but end of the day ROI matters..

Hi Dheeraj, didn't quite understand this statement. Could you please elaborate? Thanks.

 

[dheerajin]

Hi Dheeraj, didn't quite understand this statement. Could you please elaborate? Thanks.

ROI means Return on Investment..
If you have invested $$$ on some component of your chain..so it is giving that bang for a buck or not...it is that simple..

I hope you got my point..if not please PM me..

 

[dheerajin]

Hi Dheerajin

Since you are in the experimentation mood, try a 16 or 18 gauge solid core copper wire and check if you like it better as a speaker cable. You can get this cable at your local electrical store. Just make sure its pure copper and not tinned copper.

Prem, so far I have used OFC (Oxygen free copper) cables and no electrical cables till now. OFC included imported(taiwan), Chord and Indian MX. Yes, as you suggested I am trying for 12 & 14 gauge, later will try 16&18.
This experimentation is based on calculations with cable length and multiplier measurements. so I can not tell my system-YMMV.
Tomorrow I am going to try for 6mm2 electrical cable as FM soundstage is using.
So will be keeping you posted..
Thanks Prem for your interest.